Marking Bad Cylinder in Revolver

[detox]

Using my Hawkeye bore scope i inspected how well each chamber lines up with barrel/forcing cone. I have just one chamber that worries me a little, but it is not off center by much. How should i mark this one chamber temporarily...Sharpie pen maybe? Where on cylinder should i mark permenatly if this certain chamber were to shoot bad? I could leave this certain one empty when i shoot. Gun is Ruger Blackhawk 45LC.

The next time i go to the range with this gun, i will fire groups from each chamber. Five shots from one chamber, then five shots from the next chamber, until all six cylinders are tested and done. Then record results.

[scattershot]

I have marked cylinders as you described. I use a scribe, and scribe a line on the back of the cylinder, centered on the charge hole. You can't see it under normal circumstances, and it won't wear off.

[detox]

I have marked cylinders as you described. I use a scribe, and scribe a line on the back of the cylinder, centered on the charge hole. You can't see it under normal circumstances, and it won't wear off.

Thats a simple good idea.

[44man]

Do you have a few thousandths play? I have never found a chamber that shot worse except from a super tight cylinder lock up.
I shoot all five or six, never had to mark a bad one. Never found one, it was only something wrong with the load with a flier.
If you find a difference you are better then me.
The right boolit will pull the cylinder in line. That is what cylinder play is for.

[detox]

Yes there is a few thousands cylinder play. While looking down barrel using scope and moving cylinder, this certain chamber did not line up perfectly like the rest. I found it amazing how well all these chambers line up perfectly, except this one and it is very minor. Maybe caused by when I enlarge all chamber forcing cones to .4525 a few years back.

I will inspect my S&W 686 next

[Salmoneye]

If you seriously have a chamber that is visually out of alignment, call Ruger...

[detox]

Tight constriction inside barrel at threads was lapped out BTW.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?188852-Lapping-Out-Barrel-Restriction-(hand-lap-only)

[fourarmed]

Silhouette shooters load only five shots in their revolvers, and with six-shooters they usually spend some time checking groups from chambers. The catch is, IHMSA does not allow modifications to production firearms, so obvious markings are illegal. Usually, if you inspect the cylinder carefully you will find a factory stamping or some minor flaw that you can use to blueprint the chambers. You know which direction the cylinder rotates, so call the chamber that follows the mark # 1, and go from there. My Dan Wesson .41 has one chamber that centers its group at a noticeably different place than the other five, so even though it is one of the better grouping chambers, it is the one I leave out. I have a speed loader that I mark with a white line that corresponds to the indexing flaw that I use. I have a foam earplug in the hole corresponding to the chamber that is not used.

[detox]

Silhouette shooters load only five shots in their revolvers, and with six-shooters they usually spend some time checking groups from chambers. The catch is, IHMSA does not allow modifications to production firearms, so obvious markings are illegal. Usually, if you inspect the cylinder carefully you will find a factory stamping or some minor flaw that you can use to blueprint the chambers. You know which direction the cylinder rotates, so call the chamber that follows the mark # 1, and go from there. My Dan Wesson .41 has one chamber that centers its group at a noticeably different place than the other five, so even though it is one of the better grouping chambers, it is the one I leave out. I have a speed loader that I mark with a white line that corresponds to the indexing flaw that I use. I have a foam earplug in the hole corresponding to the chamber that is not used.

I have found such a mark to the rightside of suspect chamber. It is a small letter S stamped about 1/16" in size.

Small earplug stuffed inside that chamber is a great idea also. Thanks

[detox]

BTW i checked all chambers of my S&W 686 and all lined up perfectly with forcing cone of barrel. It is amazing how accurate they can machine guns now a days. :)

Current CNC machined cylinders are interchangable I hear. No fitting required

[Tatume]

If you're serious about an alignment problem, you should get a revolver range rod:

http://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=cylinder+alignment&ksubmit=y

If it fails this test, send it to Ruger.

[44man]

I shot IHMSA many years. Won almost every revolver shoot, plain old Rugers. I won Ohio state with 79 out of 80, missed the last ram from being worn out. NEVER did I eliminate a chamber.
You need a BAD gun for that. It is just a feel good thing with no basis in fact.
Being a gunsmith, more line bored guns were the worst shooters. More Rugers, S&W's and BFRs have shot all chambers the same. I seen too many out of box Rugers do 1/2" at 50 yards from all chambers.
I have gone that route, shooting each chamber to find one out but guess what, it is YOU or the load.
Come here, I will spin my cylinder, load one round and if you do not hit a 1" TARGET AT 100 YARDS, it is you.
The bad chamber is an excuse.

[detox]

I shot IHMSA many years. Won almost every revolver shoot, plain old Rugers.

Were you using cast boolits?

I remember back when i first tried commercial cast bullets in this gun. It was a total failure using these hard bullets sized @.452and n320 powder. While cleaning gun I was literally pulling out strips of lead with bore snake. I then tried softer 20/1 lead tin bullets with SPG lube and problem solved using the factory unmodified gun.

I am a tinkerer and like trying new things and hopefully this gun will shoot even better now.

Live and learn.

[lar45]

If you did want to mark a cylinder to not shoot, maybe take one of the Aluminum Blaser cases, exand it a little, push into the chamber and leave it?

[BruceB]

To AVOID confusing the issue:

A "CYLINDER" is the rotating element of a revolver which contains all the "CHAMBERS" or "CHARGE HOLES" for the individual cartridges.

What you are discussing here is the marking of a chamber or charge hole.... NOT the marking of a "cylinder".

Terminology, or nomenclature, IS important in making oneself clearly understood.

[Tatume]

Barrel slug barely slides into cylinder forcing cones with finger pressure. All six were opened to .4525" a few years ago. Hopefully the Blackhawk will shoot a little better.

Yes, and we had someone earlier today talking about checking all six forcing cones too. I didn't bother to correct him, but maybe I should have.

[44man]

I shot both at different shoots, no difference and in fact I did better with cast most times. I won state with Hornady bullets but the way to load is the same.
I never got commercial boolits to shoot. Blame will be put on hardness but it will be something else.

[detox]

Yes, and we had someone earlier today talking about checking all six forcing cones too. I didn't bother to correct him, but maybe I should have.

How's this for title...................Marking Bad Chamber On Rear Of Cylinder :???:

I went back and corrected each post.

OK please correct me. "CHAMBERS" or "CHARGE HOLES". What is that "force cone shape" called in each?

[Tatume]

Each cylinder of a revolver typically has five or six chambers. In the front of each chamber is a throat, and it should not be conical. The correct shape of a throat is cylindrical. The forcing cone is at the breech end of the barrel. Charge hole is something I can't define; I suspect it is slang or jargon.

[BruceB]

Each cylinder of a revolver typically has five or six chambers. In the front of each chamber is a throat, and it should not be conical. The correct shape of a throat is cylindrical. The forcing cone is at the breech end of the barrel. Charge hole is something I can't define; I suspect it is slang or jargon.

The term "charge hole" is widely used in revolver-specific discussions and on websites such as

www.smith-wessonforum.com

I suspect the term is a hold-over from black-powder days, as are so many other terms that we still use today.

[I'll Make Mine]

Small earplug stuffed inside that chamber is a great idea also. Thanks

Go back and read the post you replied to again -- the earplug goes in the speed loader, not in the revolver's chamber. Anything in the chamber of the gun could lead to an unsafe condition if a live round gets loaded behind the obstruction (even a foam ear plug).

[Lloyd Smale]

why dont you shoot it first and see if theres a problem. Ill argue with 44mag a bit here. Ive got quite a few lined bored and non linebored guns. I wont say that a non linebored gun wont shoot along side of a line bored gun but its not often. Ill rate guns like this. good, excellent and exceptional. Most non linebored guns i have fall into the first tow catogorys and my linebored guns fall into the last two. theres some overlap and even a couple non linebored guns that are exceptional but its rare. I have NO linebored gun that isnt at least an excellent shooter. theres no reason for them not to be. If its locked up solid on every chamber and every chamber is in perfect alignment how can you improve on that. What is bad is to have a gun that isnt aligned properly with a tight gun that doesnt allow enough play to line itself up when the bullet jumps into the forcing cone.

[Tatume]

Hi Bruce,

Yes, I've heard the term used (as in "chamfer the charge hole"), but never defined. Certainly it is not a synonym for chamber. I suspect it is the two-dimensional opening that begins the chamber.

Take care, Tom

[44man]

why dont you shoot it first and see if theres a problem. Ill argue with 44mag a bit here. Ive got quite a few lined bored and non linebored guns. I wont say that a non linebored gun wont shoot along side of a line bored gun but its not often. Ill rate guns like this. good, excellent and exceptional. Most non linebored guns i have fall into the first tow catogorys and my linebored guns fall into the last two. theres some overlap and even a couple non linebored guns that are exceptional but its rare. I have NO linebored gun that isnt at least an excellent shooter. theres no reason for them not to be. If its locked up solid on every chamber and every chamber is in perfect alignment how can you improve on that. What is bad is to have a gun that isnt aligned properly with a tight gun that doesnt allow enough play to line itself up when the bullet jumps into the forcing cone.
Yes, shoot the gun before doing anything else.
But you do agree with me Lloyd. The fact is there CAN be a bad gun but it is not common.
Line boring can be bad too. There is no barrel in the frame, just a jig to start the holes. Then the cylinder must be chambered out of the gun from the other end. Yeah, they can't be chambered from the front!
Then a barrel is screwed in the frame but what if the bore is not exactly in the center of the frame threads or barrel threads? Now make the cylinder so tight the boolit can't pull it.
I have seen accuracy go to pot with just a change in the cylinder pin.
I showed pictures of a line bored gun that bullets wore the throats oblong and wore out one side of the cone and rifling.
Tight is not good. I have shot custom revolvers from Huntington that had play and they shot lights out. Guns fit tight MUST be perfect. I think line boring is 100% harder to get perfect but if some play is left in the cylinder, it is no better then what Ruger does. Now just explain how you can get better then a S&W or BFR?
Line boring depends on who did the work and even .0005" out of line is too much for a human. I would rather have a CNC cut gun. Ruger can gang chamber all six chambers with precision but still understands you never remove play.
A super tight cylinder is a "feel good" thing. Chances of having a chamber out is greater. I seen all five out. A range rod would not go into any chamber. I fixed them by stoning a few thousandths off of the cylinder stops.

[BruceB]

Well, durn it all anyways.... I forgot my $%#*(&# password for the S&W forum.

Sooooo.... I just spent a half-hour at "The High Road", doing a search for "charge hole". There were about twenty pages of "hits", and I read about half of them.

From that reading, it's VERY plain that the term is used interchangeably today with "chamber".

Even the Rollin White patent (circa 1860?) covers "charge holes" bored completely through the cylinder to accept metallic cartridges.

I'm surely not going to break anyone's chops over this minor matter!

[44man]

Well, durn it all anyways.... I forgot my $%#*(&# password for the S&W forum.

Sooooo.... I just spent a half-hour at "The High Road", doing a search for "charge hole". There were about twenty pages of "hits", and I read about half of them.

From that reading, it's VERY plain that the term is used interchangeably today with "chamber".

Even the Rollin White patent (circa 1860?) covers "charge holes" bored completely through the cylinder to accept metallic cartridges.

I'm surely not going to break anyone's chops over this minor matter!
Not at all, but "charge holes" seems more at home with BP.

[silhouette_shooter]

I bought a brand new Ruger Flat Top in 41 Mag. The cylinder throats were undersize. Gun was spitting lead. Very inaccurate.

Sent cylinder to Bowen Classic Arms. They opened up the throats. Gun now shoots very nicely.

Two months ago I bought a Single Six, it wouldn't shoot. Sent back to factory. Factory replaced the cylinder. New cylinder is better but two of the throats are oversize. A bullet can be pushed through by hand. Thes two chambers vshoot high right. The other four shoot shoot into less than an inch at 25 yards. 17 HMR

[44man]

If one does shoot out, I like the Blaser case thing. Now that is a good idea.
IHMSA guns are not checked at shoots unless nationals anyway. A small mark at the rear would never be seen.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I've marked a chamber on a revolver's cylinder with white model paint when I thought one chamber was unlucky for accuracy, then I shot groups using only one chamber at a time on the revolver and found no difference between any of the chambers as measured on paper. I've since abandoned the idea of one chamber being less lucky for accuracy.

[BCgunworks]

Yes, shoot the gun before doing anything else.
But you do agree with me Lloyd. The fact is there CAN be a bad gun but it is not common.
Line boring can be bad too. There is no barrel in the frame, just a jig to start the holes. Then the cylinder must be chambered out of the gun from the other end. Yeah, they can't be chambered from the front!
Then a barrel is screwed in the frame but what if the bore is not exactly in the center of the frame threads or barrel threads? Now make the cylinder so tight the boolit can't pull it.
I have seen accuracy go to pot with just a change in the cylinder pin.
I showed pictures of a line bored gun that bullets wore the throats oblong and wore out one side of the cone and rifling.
Tight is not good. I have shot custom revolvers from Huntington that had play and they shot lights out. Guns fit tight MUST be perfect. I think line boring is 100% harder to get perfect but if some play is left in the cylinder, it is no better then what Ruger does. Now just explain how you can get better then a S&W or BFR?
Line boring depends on who did the work and even .0005" out of line is too much for a human. I would rather have a CNC cut gun. Ruger can gang chamber all six chambers with precision but still understands you never remove play.
A super tight cylinder is a "feel good" thing. Chances of having a chamber out is greater. I seen all five out. A range rod would not go into any chamber. I fixed them by stoning a few thousandths off of the cylinder stops.

I don't line bore often but here is the real skinny from someone who really works on guns.

The chambers are lined up dead nuts....and doing work to .0005 is a norm in today's machinist/gunsmith world.

Line boring in a nut shell puts your readers pilot holes dead center of where they need to be.

A barrel is dialed into the bore when the threads and forcing cone are cut so it's perfectly centered. Normally within .0002.

When everything is done to center as line boring is....everything will be in line and to tighter tolerance than production guns....

Line boring like many other methods of doing gun work is a theory....does it work. Yup. Does it get good results...yup. Is it the only way. Nope.

[Cowpoke]

For temporary marking of Blued Cylinder Chambers I use a Black Sharpie. It's not permanent and usually has to be remarked several times during a shooting session. What does stay on, comes right off with a little Ed's Red during cleaning. I mark the Chambers on the outside so I can easily see what chamber is where while shooting.

The Sharpie also works great on the front and rear sights to dull the shiny spots.(Like Sight Black)

[44man]

I don't line bore often but here is the real skinny from someone who really works on guns.

The chambers are lined up dead nuts....and doing work to .0005 is a norm in today's machinist/gunsmith world.

Line boring in a nut shell puts your readers pilot holes dead center of where they need to be.

A barrel is dialed into the bore when the threads and forcing cone are cut so it's perfectly centered. Normally within .0002.

When everything is done to center as line boring is....everything will be in line and to tighter tolerance than production guns....

Line boring like many other methods of doing gun work is a theory....does it work. Yup. Does it get good results...yup. Is it the only way. Nope.
Right, it does not always work, depends on tool wear and who is doing the work. Production rates to make money faster hurts, so a good custom maker will do best.
I am sure you do not want me to say what gun is the worst! I will not go there again.
Many makers do not make their own barrels either and screw in what they buy, no matter. Dial in a barrel at .0002" NOT HARDLY. Just explain how that is measured at the bore or is it outside the barrel? I seen holes drilled and threaded in frames so far off a barrel would point 30* off so how do you line bore THAT? If you get a frame off, how do you align and fix straight to line bore? Do you wallow out the threads? You can't base alignment on the hole in the frame.
CNC is the best today but even a perfect frame can have a barrel off fit.

[BCgunworks]

It's called precision machine work. Some smiths can do better than .0002.
I use a last word indicator.

The outside of the barrel doesn't matter.

I'm not teaching you a machine shop class.

[44man]

It's called precision machine work. Some smiths can do better than .0002.
I use a last word indicator.


The outside of the barrel doesn't matter.

I'm not teaching you a machine shop class.
You still do not explain what you do when the gun comes in crooked at the start.
Not how expert you can be but just how do you align and fix a poor threaded frame? What do you do when a barrel is bored and rifled a few thousandths off. How do you align the inside of the bore to the frame? The line bore jig in a crooked frame is a disaster
Today CNC is best with a part finished without being out of the jig. It is not you at the machine, it is the program. Do not tell me you can align a part to .0002" by hand.
I do not need a machining class, I am practical. I do stuff by hand and eyeball, not computer controlled. You will have a hard time telling me you fit a barrel to .0002". I would love to see you on my Smithy instead of a million dollar machine where you push a button.
Do you know who I admire most? The guys who make the machines so you suckers can work. You could not make a candy bar without the machine makers. Watch the robots making electronics. You stupid fools do not know what the machine makers are. You have a CNC and think you are smart but but ignore the guys that made it.
What is wrong with you if you take credit without giving full credit to those that made it possible?
I am sure all tools used to work on guns were made by those smarter then you are. Have you made one single thing for yourself? What frame wrenches do you have? I made bolt action wrenches and barrel blocks to change rifle barrels. You still pay and depend on others for what you do. Just who makes your drills and taps? I drill and tap a hole and give all credit to those that made the tools I use. I just put the holes in the right place. I am the dumbest *** ever when it comes to making what we use but we can buy what we need. But I make cherries and molds that nobody has beat my boolit accuracy yet.
Your last word indicator was made by a smart man, not you.
A true gunsmith is one that makes every part from lock, stock and barrel plus mold to fit. I don't care who the hell you are. You use what others made as I do.
I thank everyone that made drills, taps and machines and everything we live with. I can't do it so never tell me you are better either.You are using what you pay for. But you did not make it!

[M-Tecs]

You still do not explain what you do when the gun comes in crooked at the start.
Not how expert you can be but just how do you align and fix a poor threaded frame? What do you do when a barrel is bored and rifled a few thousandths off. How do you align the inside of the bore to the frame? The line bore jig in a crooked frame is a disaster
Today CNC is best with a part finished without being out of the jig. It is not you at the machine, it is the program. Do not tell me you can align a part to .0002" by hand.
I do not need a machining class, I am practical. I do stuff by hand and eyeball, not computer controlled. You will have a hard time telling me you fit a barrel to .0002". I would love to see you on my Smithy instead of a million dollar machine where you push a button.
Do you know who I admire most? The guys who make the machines so you suckers can work. You could not make a candy bar without the machine makers. Watch the robots making electronics. You stupid fools do not know what the machine makers are. You have a CNC and think you are smart but but ignore the guys that made it.
What is wrong with you if you take credit without giving full credit to those that made it possible?
I am sure all tools used to work on guns were made by those smarter then you are. Have you made one single thing for yourself? What frame wrenches do you have? I made bolt action wrenches and barrel blocks to change rifle barrels. You still pay and depend on others for what you do. Just who makes your drills and taps? I drill and tap a hole and give all credit to those that made the tools I use. I just put the holes in the right place. I am the dumbest *** ever when it comes to making what we use but we can buy what we need. But I make cherries and molds that nobody has beat my boolit accuracy yet.
Your last word indicator was made by a smart man, not you.
A true gunsmith is one that makes every part from lock, stock and barrel plus mold to fit. I don't care who the hell you are. You use what others made as I do.
I thank everyone that made drills, taps and machines and everything we live with. I can't do it so never tell me you are better either.You are using what you pay for. But you did not make it!

Wow :popcorn:

[BCgunworks]

You still do not explain what you do when the gun comes in crooked at the start.
Not how expert you can be but just how do you align and fix a poor threaded frame? What do you do when a barrel is bored and rifled a few thousandths off. How do you align the inside of the bore to the frame? The line bore jig in a crooked frame is a disaster
Today CNC is best with a part finished without being out of the jig. It is not you at the machine, it is the program. Do not tell me you can align a part to .0002" by hand.
I do not need a machining class, I am practical. I do stuff by hand and eyeball, not computer controlled. You will have a hard time telling me you fit a barrel to .0002". I would love to see you on my Smithy instead of a million dollar machine where you push a button.
Do you know who I admire most? The guys who make the machines so you suckers can work. You could not make a candy bar without the machine makers. Watch the robots making electronics. You stupid fools do not know what the machine makers are. You have a CNC and think you are smart but but ignore the guys that made it.
What is wrong with you if you take credit without giving full credit to those that made it possible?
I am sure all tools used to work on guns were made by those smarter then you are. Have you made one single thing for yourself? What frame wrenches do you have? I made bolt action wrenches and barrel blocks to change rifle barrels. You still pay and depend on others for what you do. Just who makes your drills and taps? I drill and tap a hole and give all credit to those that made the tools I use. I just put the holes in the right place. I am the dumbest *** ever when it comes to making what we use but we can buy what we need. But I make cherries and molds that nobody has beat my boolit accuracy yet.
Your last word indicator was made by a smart man, not you.
A true gunsmith is one that makes every part from lock, stock and barrel plus mold to fit. I don't care who the hell you are. You use what others made as I do.
I thank everyone that made drills, taps and machines and everything we live with. I can't do it so never tell me you are better either.You are using what you pay for. But you did not make it!
Wow....
Um....yeah....

I use manual machines. Manual lathes, mills, and surface grinders.

Threads, frames, or whatever else can be trued up.

Before you jump on the keyboard again and feel all powerful. Go look up some custom gun builders. Look at the tolerances held.

Now looks at precision machine work and the tolerances held. Many of those jobs are similar to the tasks being done in gun work.

Some peoples eye can detect .005. And I said some. Such as someone's eye who works to that level of precision every day.

Why you decide to attack me and say stupid stuff behind every post I make I have no idea.

Maybe you should post some more 500 yd pistol groups.

[44man]

Funny isn't it. watch "how it is made" once. See the machines doing the work. It blows me away how they were made. Holy batman, see what it takes to make a twist drill bit. How about an end mill?
Watch a cracker maker baking them, what are you? NUTS? Watch steel mills turning out what they do. You can't shoot a revolver. My God man, do you know how stupid and low we are?
Like me, you depend on others. If the world ended today, could you make a light bulb or a computer on a satellite?
On the average, we can't live a few days in the wild on our own.
Without cooperation we are lost. A man gets lost in the wild and hundreds of thousands of dollars along with hundreds of men to find you.
How great and important some of you are. But in the end, if we were on our own I might survive. I can cook with a dutch oven and get game to eat.

[44man]

Wow....
Um....yeah....

I use manual machines. Manual lathes, mills, and surface grinders.

Threads, frames, or whatever else can be trued up.

Before you jump on the keyboard again and feel all powerful. Go look up some custom gun builders. Look at the tolerances held.

Now looks at precision machine work and the tolerances held. Many of those jobs are similar to the tasks being done in gun work.

Some peoples eye can detect .005. And I said some. Such as someone's eye who works to that level of precision every day.

Why you decide to attack me and say stupid stuff behind every post I make I have no idea.

Maybe you should post some more 500 yd pistol groups.
I did not attack you at all. Just want to know how crooked factory stuff can be fixed. If crooked threads in a frame can be re cut to straight I think we would like to know. What about slop left over? Just how do you true up threads without removing metal? Do you crank the tap hard to the side?
No, a bad DW from the period can not have the threads in the frame fixed.

[BCgunworks]

You cut the frame or reciever threads larger then turn the barrel threads to match. Basic machine work

[BCgunworks]

We are way off topic from the op. I'm done

[dubber123]

I see both of your points. We all know Jim has a hard on for F/A, and if he has seen some junk ones come through for the money they charge, I can't fault him. The average F/A owner thinks they are the best ever, and don't question them. Well, I own 2. 1 was awesome out of the box, one went to DougGuy to have the throats reamed to compensate for a very large, (oval) barrel. The line boring wasn't going to fix this one.

BC, if you do that level of work every time, Kudos to you. Fixing the crooked, ill machined junk the factories feed us on a regular basis is not a job I'd want. Jims point of saying if it isn't perfectly aligned, then some slop is preferable is quite valid. I like bank vault solid, and perfect alignment, but I bet thats a million times harder to achieve than we are lead to believe.

[44man]

I do get out of sorts with all the junk I have bought. With all the wondrous machines today, they still make junk that does not last. My first Smithy made noise, I had to remove and clean every bearing in the machine. They all had cast iron dust in them.
BC is also correct because it is better when a man did work out of pride and old guns are better, shot better too.
Today employees are not treated right so they don't care, most hate to go to work. My house is full of expensive junk. Then to have newer guns brought here and see how bad some are does not sit well. My friend that had his X frame double called S&W and was told it was shooter error, pulled the trigger twice. Not going to happen and videos of the gun in action proved it. S&W would do nothing. Sent DW's back for shoddy work, cylinders not faced even and crooked barrels in the frames, they never replaced a frame for us. Can't fix with oversize threads. You need to make a new barrel. Found a spring inside the gun that did nothing, the hole for it was too small and the spring was mangled, I was able to fix that.
Had it out with Baker when he blamed me for over size and out of round bores. Said I shot lead before jacketed and ruined the barrel. Told him the only lead was a bore slug so he said I left lead in it. Never heard such nasty words and cussing. Took 3 barrel replacements to get it right. Some on the customers dime. Did no good to have an 83 and a 97 have the firing pin move out when pushing the hammer. Why have a hammer block and a transfer bar when they don't work? I found either ill fitted or worn parts and made new parts by hand to fix them. Triggers are fantastic but heavy and only needs a spring change but they want $100 so I wound springs by hand for them.
You have not lived until you pull those guns apart.
Yes, it is personal with me and that company.
I call Ruger and get nothing but a pleasant talk. I needed a part for a Mossberg that the customer lost. No problem, on the way, no charge. I got the wrong part, called back and was told, "no problem", keep the wrong one, new one in the mail.
Remington always fixed guns free. I found the shotgun failures were caused by the magazine springs. I just bought new Wolfe springs by the dozen. Dirt cheap fix, never had one return.
I call GE and am told "sorry, can't help you."
Had a sears service man here and he said he could not fix so take my paper to the store and get a new one. Service manager had a fit and it took a while until he gave me one, guess what I will buy from sears? The new one also failed and was back twice for service, still does not work right.
I have a reason to be bitter.
Marlin screwed up with the .44 mag with a 1 in 38" twist. They changed the .444 to 1 in 20" so I called to see if I could get a 1 in 20" for my .44. First thing asked was if it under warranty. 2 years! What the heck? You can buy a used Ruger and they will fix free. Maybe now that they are Remlins, we can get help.
I was cleaning my Vaquero at a shoot but the cylinder was in my shooting box on another bench. Someone had the same box and took mine by mistake. I called Ruger and they made me a new one. I got the gun back and the next day I found my check in the mail. I called Ruger and the lady said "OK, no charge."
When I bad mouth someone, there is a reason.

[44man]

I have the utmost respect for all you shooters that love the silver stream and BC does not know my respect for his work, he does super work. Never against him or anyone here. It is against what we pay good money for and find disappointment. I have a deep freezer that has worked for 54 years and I expect everything to last or be made right. No gun should need fixed, and sorry Ruger, you screw up too.

[monge]

you guys just convinced me not to sell my old rugers!

[44man]

I bought a Mark II and could not hit anything. I found bullets were hitting the ground 20' in front of me. I could find nothing wrong, bore, crown, everything was OK. I sent it back, got a new gun to replace it, no questions asked. I believe in standing behind what you make even if something is wrong. Ruger is top as far as I am concerned. Be nice to them and they will do all they can.
There are companies I love and some I would never do business with again.
I guess I am old school, if I screw up, I will fix FREE. I get everything to fix from old rocking chairs to all guns. Spent years fixing old TV's and radios and got jobs from all over Ohio because a TV never left without working better then new at a cheap price. If the sound did not work, I would fix but if the picture was bad, it never left without being made perfect-FREE. I never charged for adjustments. I charged $25 to fix a lightning strike while the repair guy up the road charged $80.
I would come home from work to find 15 TV's in my garage. Some from 100 miles away. Just how did they learn about me? Pride and workmanship, word of mouth.
I found the repair guy up the road would adjust convergence on a TV and leave the wing nuts loose so cars going up and down the road would change the settings from vibration. They were hard to set so he made more money, I screwed him over big time. I told my customers of his bad practices. I made a ton of money but it was little by little with many jobs.
Some of you don't like what I say but if you came here and I spent hours working on your gun, I don't want your stinking money. I am concerned about you only.
You might hate my opinions but I tell it like it is, just like I explained everything I did with a TV to the customer. They might not understand but they seen it in the end. I hate a CHEAT worse then anything.