how good is the 30-06?

[desteve811]

Been pondering for the last few weeks about making my 30-06 bolt action rifle my dedicated cast bullet accuracy rifle. What are the pro and cons on this cartridge? I bought this rifle new 6 years ago and only taken it out 1 time to sight it in and twice out hunting. (Didnt see anything)

My ?'s

30-06 pro and cons
Good mold to get for accuracy
Special case prep/bullet prep to take for accuracy

[Doc Highwall]

There is almost never a problem with the cartridge but there can be problems with the gun. The biggest problem is usually the throat area and lead followed by the barrel twist.

What is the make and model of your gun along with the twist rate?

Another thing is what kind of shooting are you going to do just light target loads and at what distance?

[Jack Stanley]

Ya wanna start something huh? ;) I guess if it has a con , you will have a hard time turning it into a six hundred nitro express and there is only so much weight you can peel off a rifle before it won't be much fun to fire .

On the good side there is a lot you can do with it . I only have military rifles chambered in aught six but there are lots of loads for them . I use a 311466 with a light charge of Unique so the battle sights of a 1903 hits where the sights look at thirty yards or so . I'm currently working on a heavier load that uses the battle sight at a hundred yards . I have another load using an undersize 314299 that clocks at twenty-three hundred feet per second and is at least as accurate as ball ammo .

A mold to get ?? that's your call for what you want to do but one of my favorites is an LBT in the one sixty-five range . Send Veral a throat slug and he will make it for your rifle if ya want him to . I hear Tom at Accurate molds makes good stuff too though I haven't tried one yet there are a lot of happy campers here that have .

Case and bullet prep , size cases to just barely fit the chamber , don't trim to short , play with the crimp . Bullets , weigh them , use good lube for the velocity and push through sizers are nice at times .

Stand by , lots more good info coming from the guys that know .

Jack

[DxieLandMan]

I do not have any cons about the .30-06. There are a lot of different weight bullets from plinking to bigger game hunting. We use ours for deer hunting and have taken all but 1 with that rifle (one was with an SKS). I once asked dad why he chose that cartridge and not something else. He told me that if it was good enough for the US military, it was good enough for him. Also, ammo, when ammo can be found, is relatively cheap and easy to find. On the reloading side, a 150 grain bullet under 50 grains of IMR 4895 can't be beat.

[Larry Gibson]

The '06 is excellent for cast bullets. Problem is most '06s have a 10" twist and many shooters want too much velocity from it.

Start with the 311299. 311284 or the RCBS or Lee equivelents in the 180 - 200 gr range. Cast out of a good alloy such as COWWs + 2% tin or make up some Lyman #2 alloy. Size at .311 and use good GCs seated correctly. Use a good lube such as the NRA 50/50s or Lars 2500+. Use fire formed cases and NS. Use a Lyman .31 M die. Only minimal "case prep" is needed if quality commercial cases are used or match milsurp cases. Load over 28 gr of 4895 (any flavor but I prefer H4895) and use a 3/4 gr dacron filler. Seat the bullets so the top lube groove is just covered and the GC is still with in the case neck. A slight engraving of the lands on the front edge of the front driving band when the cartridge is chambered is ok. Work up in 1 gr increments to 32 gr. A "sweet spot" will be found in there and then you can tweek it 1/2 gr +/- at that spot. Best accuracy will be in the 1750 - 1950 fps range.

Larry Gibson

[HARRYMPOPE]

The 311284 or 314299 with 12g of Unique or 16g of 2400 will be a good load in about 90% of the 30-06 rifles.That will usually get you 1.5 MOA in a sporter.Many times better but a good start.Like Larry said on the seating in the post above is also good advice..The 311466 while discontinued is also a very nice 30-06 bullet.For plikning and about 2 MOA the Lyman 311008 and 6g of Bullseye make it a 32-20.In a sporter the 30-06 is a great cast bullet gun and better than the 30-30 by far IMHO.Unless you just like lever-guns.

[P.K.]

100+ years and still going strong, what's not to love? I just ordered one over a 7mm-08 and a 7mm Rem Mag. Nothing wrong with the others, BUT, I wanted a long action and brass out the wazoo(w/o having to rework it.). Guess it was an easy choice. ;-)

[colt1960]

Ive got a lyman 311644 2cavity mold, It's a 190 grain gas check. Does anyone use this for there cast 3006 rounds and are they any good? thanks Rick!

[Iowa Fox]

The '06 is excellent for cast bullets. Problem is most '06s have a 10" twist and many shooters want too much velocity from it.

Start with the 311299. 311284 or the RCBS or Lee equivelents in the 180 - 200 gr range. Cast out of a good alloy such as COWWs + 2% tin or make up some Lyman #2 alloy. Size at .311 and use good GCs seated correctly. Use a good lube such as the NRA 50/50s or Lars 2500+. Use fire formed cases and NS. Use a Lyman .31 M die. Only minimal "case prep" is needed if quality commercial cases are used or match milsurp cases. Load over 28 gr of 4895 (any flavor but I prefer H4895) and use a 3/4 gr dacron filler. Seat the bullets so the top lube groove is just covered and the GC is still with in the case neck. A slight engraving of the lands on the front edge of the front driving band when the cartridge is chambered is ok. Work up in 1 gr increments to 32 gr. A "sweet spot" will be found in there and then you can tweek it 1/2 gr +/- at that spot. Best accuracy will be in the 1750 - 1950 fps range.

Larry Gibson

Larry, I learn something everytime I read one of your posts. I have been using the 30 long M die for the 06 sized @ 311. Gotta get a 31 M expander to give it a try.

[uscra112]

Avoided the -06 for years and years because "everybody has one of those". Have had a nice sporter 03-A3 (two groove barrel) for 5-6 years and ignored it. Dumb on all counts. Hope I live long enough to make up the lost time.

[nhrifle]

When you factor in pure accuracy, ease of loading, and in my opinion the forgiveness of the cartridge, the '06 is very hard to beat. Two moulds mentioned above have worked great for me -- the 311299 and the 314299. I have an old 1903 Springfield (low serial number model) that loves the 314299 sized to .312". That boolit sized to .314" works great in my No. IV MK I as well. I restored a 1903A3 Remington Springfield that puts the 311299 wherever I point it.

If you are looking for accurate, consistent boolits to launch, I would say get one of those two designs from NOE.

[Char-Gar]

After 107 years, with about half of that as the US military service round, the 30-06 holds no secrets. Countless millions of rounds have been fired by military and civilian shooters in a wide variety of rifles. It is still with us because it has proven itself at whatever task it is given.

During it's long life span, millions and millions of cast bullets have been fired in this round. If the limits of it's traditional 1-10 twist barrel are noted and observed, it will perform as good as any and better than some. I own at least a half dozen 30-06 rifles and fire cast bullets in them all. I have used well over 20 different bullet designs and while some are better than others, there are many that will turn in sterling performance.

A good 30-06 as you dedicated cast bullet rifle is an excellent choice.

[Hang Fire]

There was a time when the 30-06 cartridge was considered the holy grail for cast boolit shooting. What is there not to like, very forgiving with most all boolit weights, powder charges and velocities, there is a plethora of molds available for target, big and small game.

[Jeff Michel]

311299 and 311284 for gaschecked and 311241 for plainbase.

[nekshot]

Anything new is almost always compared to the 30-30 or 30-06. I prefer the old well proven method in both accounts over the new wizbangs.

[Doc Highwall]

Ive got a lyman 311644 2cavity mold, It's a 190 grain gas check. Does anyone use this for there cast 3006 rounds and are they any good? thanks Rick!

I have two of those moulds and they are the older ones with a grease groove on the nose, unfortunatly both of them cast undersize on the nose at .299".

[shredder]

Real good for me. My rifle love sedate loads like lee 160 gr RN over 14 grains of Herco getting 1625 fps. That has been a great fun shooter for me. I also have had good groups from my Lyman 311332 over 22 grains of SR4759. I could go on and on but my 06 will remain one of, if not my most favorite rifle of all for cast.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Have about all the caliber .30 US Military was made in. My most accurate is a Zastava 06 Interarms was selling 30 years ago. Only 06 I bought new.
All my 06's shoot the RCBS 180 FNGC nicely. That is my go to boolit then I branch out if that barrel will shoot accurately. I can live easily with a 180 grainer chugging along at 1900 fps. Some rifles will go faster. But getting much past 2000 fps becomes too much work and not really much gain. A well placed 50/50 mix at those speeds will eliminate any creature most any of us will ever get a crack at.
I have no regrets getting into 06's early on in my shooting life. Never bothered me one bit if everyone in Michigan had one. Hard to beat a winner. Well maybe the caliber .375 or .35 on the same case could make a good alternative.
Mike in Peru

[smoked turkey]

I am working up 110 30-06 commercial cases strictly for the Garand. Trimming, annealing, cleaning, etc. I expect these over IMR 4895 and a 311299 will do nicely. I don't think you will be disappointed in the 30-06 for whatever you need it to do. It is a great round.

[Adk Mike]

I own three only shoot cast in them. Two US model 1917's and a Sears bolt rifle. 314299 in 17's The Sears I use the 311644 . My go to powder charge is 13 of Unique. Great Fun.

[historicfirearms]

I love the 30-06. 2400 works well for me. In my featherweight I can get 100 yard, five shot cloverleaf groups with the rcbs-180-fn. I can't do that good with any jacketed bullets that I've tried. If I push velocity much over 1700 fps, my groups start to open up. This is enough power to kill a Michigan white tail easily.

[P.K.]

I own three only shoot cast in them. Two US model 1917's and a Sears bolt rifle. 314299 in 17's The Sears I use the 311644 . My go to powder charge is 13 of Unique. Great Fun.

If your Sears rifle is anything like the one my Da picked up at a yard sale for a song, try some of the American Eagle 168gr. HPBT's in it. For whatever reason that paticular load shot really well for remanufactured ammo.

[rintinglen]

Ive got a lyman 311644 2cavity mold, It's a 190 grain gas check. Does anyone use this for there cast 3006 rounds and are they any good? thanks Rick!

Yes I do.

I have had good results with it in my old sporterized Springfield. 28.5 grains of IMR-4895, 19 grains of 2400, 22.0 grains of RL-7 all seem to work well for me. I did not try to run it fast. I use a tuft of bamboo fiber (going green, don't ya know--"it's like dacron, only ORGANIC") to keep the powder charge in the rear. Harris's 13.0 grains of Red Dot supposedly works well, but I've not tried it.
I don't get to shoot my rifles much any more, the nearest rifle range is 80 minutes off, so in order to go there I basically have to make a day of it. Sadly, days are hard to come by.

I got the bamboo fiber at Joanne's, mostly because of the earnest, excited recommendation of the little gal who helped me find what I was looking for. When she said "organic", you'd have thought somebody had just given her a puppy. I didn't have the heart to tell her that dacron is a carbon based polymer and hence "organic" too.
I used to be young and foolish too.

[Moonie]

My Savage Edge in 30-06 gets fed a diet of Accurate Molds 245gr with 35gr of H4895 moving at 1950fps. It is more accurate than a rifle in this price range should be.

[Bullet Caster]

I use the Lee .309 200 grainers gas checked in my Garand over 35 grains of IMR 4895 and it cycles the action and dumps the brass in a nice little pile. Most reloaders load heavy for caliber when shooting cast out of rifles, thus the 200 grainers. M1 and M2 ball rounds are usually in or around the 150 grain level and are great for FMJ rounds. Just don't try to push a gas checked lead boolit as fast as you can a jacketed one and you will be okay. What's not to like about .30-06. It's been around for ever and you can get projectiles from 125 grains all the way to 235 grains which makes for a very versitile round. BC

[W.R.Buchanan]

I got into this discussion at Front Sight last week.

When you get right down to it the .30-06 is arguably the most versitile round in existance. There are more bullets made for .30 cal than any other. The list of powders that work is as long as your arm. Brass will be available in one form or another forever.

One real indicator is the fact tha more new rifles are sold in .30-06 than any other caliber. Reloading die sales confirm this.

Cast Boolits work well in the 06 as well, and as many have testified previously the Lyman 311299 and Lee 309-200 are both excellent performers.

With Bullets ranging from 110 gr to over 240 gr nothing on this planet is safe.

The fact that it was the creation of Americans is no small point either.

In short it could easily be the most versitle round ever made.

Randy

[Photog]

I agree with all these accolades. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?162667-Power-Pistol-and-168g-Cast-boolit-with-CG take a look at my FIRST attempt with a 30-06, its really easy to get good results from it.

[M-Tecs]

Good enough to win two World Wars. I agree that it's the most versatile round ever made. It will work on prairie dogs through elephants and anything in between.

[I'll Make Mine]

Years ago when I worked for a bank, there was a saying: "No one ever got fired for choosing IBM." That was right before someone bought a bunch of IBM PS/2 computers for the managers in my department; they didn't get fired, but it was a near thing.

If we amend that to "No one ever failed their hunt for choosing .30-06." we're a lot closer to the mark; there are a few animals on Earth that I consider too big/tough for this caliber, but with the right bullet and load they can still fall. It's been 107 years since there was a general need for a more powerful round in the US military (for the past 50 of those years, they've been looking for a lighter weight round that will do the same job -- they're still looking). Yes, snipers are using .300 Win Mag or .338 Lapua Mag, when they don't shoot .50 BMG or 20 mm -- but that's a specialized niche that was nicely filled by .30-06 for a number of years (those magnum rounds don't kill the target any deader, and don't really edge out the .30-06 for effectiveness until you're a half mile out).

If I'd had the money, I'd have preferred a .30-06 over the Mosin Nagant that's currently my only center fire rifle; there's only a small ballistic advantage (same velocity with about 20 grains heavier bullet) and no fiscal one, but there are a (very) few things the .30-06 will do that my "Russian .30-06" won't. I'd still trade it for an 03-A3 in the same condition in a heartbeat...

[GabbyM]

Purchased my first 30-06 just last winter. Am now a 30-06 fan for life.

Easy can be a good thing. Thinking I got lucky with this rifle. First time out to the range with my new M70 Winchester Sporter. Loaded up a few of my 30 caliber boolits over 28.0 grains of Alliant Rx7. They all shot good. From a 160 grain Lyman SP ,180 grain custom FP, 30-180-FN RCBS, 200 grain Lyman #311299. They all just dropped right into nice groups. All loads shot spotless clean leaving a shiny bore. Felix lube with carnauba wax. Then I shot a few Hornady 178gr A-Max over a 5% reduced charge of WW760. Those powder fouled and copper fouled a bit. As would be expected. Still shooting to the sight setting just hitting a couple inches higher at 100 yards. All loads were within one inch right to left POI. Was shooting prone off the ground with a coat over my shooting box for a rest. Thus the A-Max’s didn’t’ turn in any better groups than the 311299’s did. Everything was well under two inches at 100 yards. 28.0 gr of Rx7 only books at 1904 fps with the lightest 160gr Lyman #311672 so none of the loads were pushing any velocity limits. Recoil even with the 200 grain boolits and the A-Max loads was soft. The nice recoil pad on the new M70 is a great help. Shot one hundred rounds from prone with no sore shoulder or bruising. My Weatherby in 270 Win would of beat me apart. It needs a new stock.

What boolit to use can be an easy choice or if you are a perfectionist like many of us here are. You can spend quite a bit of time selecting one. When you say accuracy rifle. Did you mean hunting or target? For hunting a 30-06 excels with the heavy boolits.
That’s where you separate a 30-30 from a 30-06 with cast boolits. IMHO. I love my Win 94 AE but it’s no 30-06. I may get rid of my 308 Win stuff. Mostly to reduce redundancy and because I'm not to far into 308 anyways.
BTW a Lyman #311299 body length is a perfect fit into the 30-06's neck.

I've some AA 4064 to try with the heavy boolits. AA 4064 is slower than IMR 4064 and has a short grain that is very similar to Varget. Also have some IMR 7828 to try as a very slow powder.

[GabbyM]

Years ago when I worked for a bank, there was a saying: "No one ever got fired for choosing IBM." That was right before someone bought a bunch of IBM PS/2 computers for the managers in my department; they didn't get fired, but it was a near thing.

If we amend that to "No one ever failed their hunt for choosing .30-06." we're a lot closer to the mark; there are a few animals on Earth that I consider too big/tough for this caliber, but with the right bullet and load they can still fall. It's been 107 years since there was a general need for a more powerful round in the US military (for the past 50 of those years, they've been looking for a lighter weight round that will do the same job -- they're still looking). Yes, snipers are using .300 Win Mag or .338 Lapua Mag, when they don't shoot .50 BMG or 20 mm -- but that's a specialized niche that was nicely filled by .30-06 for a number of years (those magnum rounds don't kill the target any deader, and don't really edge out the .30-06 for effectiveness until you're a half mile out).

If I'd had the money, I'd have preferred a .30-06 over the Mosin Nagant that's currently my only center fire rifle; there's only a small ballistic advantage (same velocity with about 20 grains heavier bullet) and no fiscal one, but there are a (very) few things the .30-06 will do that my "Russian .30-06" won't. I'd still trade it for an 03-A3 in the same condition in a heartbeat...

Buddy has a 30-06 AI (Ackley Improved) hunting rifle. With 180 or 200 grain VLD bullets the 06 AI gives the 300 mag a real run for it’s money with longer barrel life and an ability to shoot longer strings of fire due to less powder volume = less barrel heat. Then there’s the lower muzzle flash advantage.

To state the obvious. 30-06 loaded to pressures an old 03 Springfield or M1 can stand isn’t more than a 7.62 NATO. However load the case for a new rifle to the same pressure as a 7.62 NATO and the 06 screams past the 7.62. Then seeing that the NATO round is also a low pressure round. Buy a new rifle that will take 62,000 psi then load a 178 grain VLD bullet. On the flip side of J bullets. We can load heavy cast to max velocity while still having low pressures to preserve barrel life. Lower Muzzle end pressure also saves your ears.

Ackley Improved 30-06 is one of my favorite guns. However I’d just like to say. Having experience with 243 AI. Which I like and still run. I’d not want an AI of any flavor in a battle rifle. They simply do not like dirt. When you do stick one of those straightened out cases they are seriously stuck. That said the only 243 AI case I ever stuck was one 243 Win that had been fired in a previous worn out barrel then neck sized only. That was in my living room. But I’d not want to take an AI gun to the sand box. NO issue there actually as my old heart would give out before my Ackley rifle got that dirty. But a young soldier may win it after casting lots for my cloths and gun.

FYI: 30-06 AI from a long barrel rifle can send a 180 grain bullet to 3,000 fps. AND not even break a sweat doing it.
That my friends is a whole lot of gun. AI reloading dies are high price items. I built my first 243 AI then looked up a set of dies. Dugh.

[desteve811]

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd410/desteve1981/20130331_162554.jpg

Have my fire formed brass ready and my cast bullets i received from a forum member gas checked, lubed, and sized. Now whats a good powder to use?

[Outpost75]

Today I was out shooting my .30-'06 Mauser sporter built by Erst Appel of Wurzburg when I was stationed there in the 1980s. Sights are a Zeiss Diatal-C with German post inEuro-style quick detachable mounts. When zeroed for RWS 180-grain TUG hunting ammunition at 300 meters using the crosshairs, my cast bullet small game load with 163-grain NEI #63 cast of wheelweights, loaded as- cast and unsized, lubed with Lee Liquid Alox, WLR primer and 8.4 grs. of Bullseye, shoots to point of aim at 100 yards, using the bottom post as an aiming point, rather than the crosshair, at 100 yards. Average of 5 consecutive 5-shot group at 100 yards was 1.56".

[John Allen]

My Enfield 1917 - 3006 is still one of my favorites. I have a couple of them and they all are just fine with cast.

[Randy C]

30 06 I think has always been one of the best hunting cartridge but it uses a lot of powder and likes heavy bullets that's why most people plink with a smaller caliber. I bought a 243.
Randy

[Lead Fred]

Mr Odd Six sez to Mr Three O Eight: "Anything you can do, I can do better"

When I was 9, my first rifle was a Mossberg Target 22. All 7 lbs of it.
When I was 12, I was taught to carry My Ole Man's A3O3.
Been carrying 30-06 ever since.

Got three now, 2 bolts & a Garand.

I shoot my RD 30-30 mold though the older bolt for fun. Id never run it though the other two.

The M1 gets fed ONLY 147-155gr pills pushed by IMR-4895

The bolts get everything from 110g varmint grenades to 190gr Bergers.

[starmac]

There is a member on the Alaska outdoors site with the signature line that says If you can't kill it with a 30/06 hide. That about sums it up. lol

[siamese4570]

I have to re-quote a line I read about the 30-06 from the early 1900's. " Ain't too many things that a man can't fix with $100 and a 30-06". Still true except the dollar amount has gone up.
siamese4570

[bob208]

back when i read the gun rags. every new cal. that came out they would compaire it to the .30-06. now why not chose the one that every one is trying to measure up to ?

[pietro]

.


" The .30-06 is never a mistake. " (Townsend Whelan)





.

[birch]

I have a pre-64 70 in 30-06 and it is one of 4 guns that will be with me till I am pushing up daisies--Hopefully! I have been around long enought to know that there really isnt much certain about this life.

I am not one for hard kicking firearms, but for some reason I can shoot this gun as good as my rem. 513t.

[Just Duke]

Subscribed. I need some sleep.

[MT Gianni]

Well I have two 30-36's and two 308's. If I ever have to sell everything my BLR in 308 will be the last one out the door. There is something for a light handy carrying carbine and I don't really give up much for big game in the lower 48. My target rifle is a 30-06 though.

[Cane_man]

anyone using a Lyman 311291 for 30-06?

[GabbyM]

I don't fully buy into the 30-06 as being to large for cast boolits. If you run heavy bullets. 180 to 240 grain.
You can achieve desired velocity with less pressure. You'll use more powder than a 308 Win but that's not a deal breaker in my book. Faster rifle powders like Alliant RL7 run the 160 grain boolits just fine in my 06 with no fillers or any special tweaking.
Before I bought and owned a 30-06 I thought a long neck 308 Win wildcat would be the ticket. But after getting a new 30-06 and seeing how easy it is to get shooting great. I'd say if it aint broke don't fix it.

[Ithaca Gunner]

In .30 I have .30Carbine, .30WCF, .30Army, .308, and .30 GOV'T 06. With cast, the .30 GOV'T 06 trumps em all! With jacketed, one of my .308's shoots more accurately, but is not nearly as versatile. The .30 GOV'T 06 is the best balanced, most versatile cartridge ever!

With cast, I've had great success with three molds, Lyman 311332, Lyman 311299, and RCBS .30-180-FN. I'll admit, I haven't tried em all, but any of these three will work fine in my experience.

[303carbine]

The 30-06 is one of my favorites, so is the 7x57, 8x57, 358 Winchester, 303 British, 45-70.
For overall purposes, my 7x57 Remington 700 Mountain rifle works for just about every hunting situation where I live.
When I go hunting, i just reach into the gun locker and whichever one I touch first gets to go on the hunt.
I have taken game with all of them, I am comfortable with any of them in the field.
To answer your question, the 06 is one of the best and certainly in the top five. It can shoot varmints to buffalo, what's not to like. Buy one, buy two.[smilie=s:

[savagetactical]

I think the 30-06 is as good as it gets and truthfully is without peer as far as being a DO ALL cartridge. However its not my goto gun even though I own more than one and I have hunted with them many times. My goto gun is a 7x57, its a great little rifle and does most of what I need a rifle to do. When I need more capability then I break out the ought six.