Another question on which Sharps to buy-Shiloh or C-Sharps?

[smoked turkey]

I have been following several Sharps rifles on G-B for the past month or so. I am wanting either a Shiloh, or C-Sharps in 45 caliber. I am set up for 45-70 and that is what I think I prefer. However I am not ruling out any of the 45 calibers. Is this a good thought, or should I purchase a particular caliber/length since this is my first and probably my last Sharps. I am currently watching one in 45-90. It is said to be an older New York rifle and is an "Old Reliable" Sharps model 1874 rifle. It has a tang sight that looks good to me but I am not familiar with the different sights. I just know that good sights are expensive and getting one on a rifle could be a good addition to the purchase provided it was a good one. At the present time I am planning on smokeless powder and not paper patching. Not to rule out black and paperpatching. I just am thinking toward simple target work without too much extra other than regular smokeless reloading. I am not thinking of a lot of frills that run the cost up. I just want a basic good Sharps that is the best buy I can find. Truthfully I may not find one for my current budget which is under $2K. Just being honest here. Am I wasting my time looking at my current budget? I know there are a lot of Shiloh owners here and believe me I have looked the threads over with the beautiful Sharps rifles. Most of them, even the plain ones are works of art as well as just plain good shooting irons. I would love to own one if I can put it together. Thanks for any input.

[Don McDowell]

Staying with the 45-70 probably a pretty good idea, especially if you're going with smokeless powder. Those longer cases are best left for blackpowder. Getting into a good Shiloh or C Sharps for under 2000 is going to be tough to pull off. My suggestion would be to take your time there'll be one around, but keep putting money in the gunfund, as at the budget you have set aside right now, you're not that far from a brand new one from either place, with sights. 2500 will cover a basic rifle with decent sights.

[Mike Brooks]

What Don said. I have an old farmindale gun in 45-70 i bought 3 or 4 years ago for $1100. It has about 7/16" free bore which forced me to load the bullet way out to get it to shoot. This seems to be a common problem with the old farmingdale guns. I never have been able to get this gun to shoot smokeless accurately, to much jump to the rifling I suppose.
I have never owned a C Sharps, but wouldn't hesitate to buy one if I had the chance and the price was right.

[oldred]

I certainly would not rule out the 45/90 because of the desire to use smokeless, it works quite well for me in the 45/90 and while I do shoot BP sometimes I know two other guys I know who shoot smokeless exclusively. But FWIW all 3 of us are shooting Highwalls and not Sharps. When comparing smokeless 45/90 loads to 45/70 you can get about 200+ fps more velocity at the same pressures or opt for the same velocity at lower pressures than the 45/70.

[longhorn]

If buying new, I'd go Shiloh 100% of the time. Used guns, either one will probably shoot great. A Farmingdale Shiloh? Time for an advanced degree in hand loading! The long throat makes for a special set of learning opportunities.

[handyman25]

I just purchased a c-scharps with tang sight for $1200 at my local gun store. Very clean rifle with excellent bore. Good buys are out there keep looking.

[NickSS]

I would get a 45-70 if you intend on only one gun of the type. Either Shiloh or C Sharps 1874s are great rifles and you probably can find one in the $2K range but maybe without good sights. Another route may be a C Sharps 1875 model. They go for under $2K for a brand new basic rifle and shoot every bit as good as the 1874s. I have all of these type rifles and speak from experience.

[MT Chambers]

I'll put in a plug for C.Sharps with their excellent Badger barrels and reduced waiting time over the Shilohs. You can check out the C.Sharps website as they have listings with prices, of guns they have already made up, some are base models.....Enjoy!!

[6.5 mike]

I have 2 C Sharps rifles, a 1875 38-55 I brought home with me & a 32-40 1885 I had built. Only took 3 weeks for the hi-wall to be finished & shipped to me. For a gun to start the 1875 would be hard to beat, & stay under 2k.

[smoked turkey]

I really appreciate the candid and knowlegable responses on the Sharps question. I was thinking that the older Farmindale Shiloh rifles might be a bit more desireable. I say that because in a Smith revolver for example an older Model is sometimes preferred to a new one. However, I can see from what I have read that is not the case with these. Ofcourse the newer ones are superb. Evidently the older Shilohs are a little harder to reload for since they have more free bore than needed. I am encouraged by your post handyman 25. Actually I was hoping for something like that to crop up here. I spoke with the local gun store owner who I know fairly well and found out he is also looking for one, so I doubt it will make it on to the sale racks there! At least he knows I am looking. I really like the looks of the 45-90 on G-B and the rear tang sight looks like a nice one, but it is a Farmindale rifle. I am not sure about his reserve either. I bid $1850 on it last go around and didn't make his reserve. Maybe just as well. I will consider a highwall as well. I think they look nice. Thanks all

[fouronesix]

I have a 74 Shiloh, a 74 C Sharps and an original 74 Sharps. I don't own but have looked closely at a couple of the NY Sharps and they appear to be fine. The long throat really is not much problem in single shots and with an understanding of how to handle the bullet/cartridge/load requirements- wouldn't be much of an issue.

Between the Shiloh and C Sharps- kind of a toss up. I don't know if it's me, the caliber or the individual gun, but my C Sharps out shoots my Shiloh by a hair.

[Don McDowell]

If that rifle you're looking at is the one I'm thinking of, it is a decent looking rifle, that is one of the Ukranian sights from Parts Unknown, now called Red River. Those are decent sights but they will loosen up on the windage drum so that the staff will flap back and forth a bit. That really won't hurt alot until you start shooting past around 300 yds, and then there's enough slop to really mess with group sizes. I did manage to squeeze ours in a vice and tighten them back up a bit, but have since relegated those to the spare parts box.
At 1850 I'ld be inclined to say that's to much, especially since a brand new #3 from Shiloh or a Bridgeport from CSA runs about the same, altho you'ld need sights, but dollars to donuts you'ld have to replace that sight on the rifle in question.

[nhrifle]

I have a very soft spot in my heart for the Sharps rifle in all its forms and calibers. Honestly, you will not go wrong with any caliber and furniture style. If the bore is in fair condition, all the furniture is there, and it catches your eye, go for it.

[ridurall]

63407 have a Shiloh Sharps Old Reliable 30” barrel with a Baldwin Soule rear sight. I purchased it from a friend and it came with 4 molds and 400 rounds of factory and cast ammo. I purchased a mold that puts out a 522 gr boolit that has 132' drop at 1000 yards. That sight is a wonderful piece of equipment. I purchased it for my wife because she had decided that she just had to have one. Well when you have a wife that likes guns you get her what she wants. I've never looked back after getting it. It's a sweet rifle that shoots great.

[smoked turkey]

ridurall that is eye candy for sure. I am looking for a friend like yours with something like that! Thanks for the input on the rear sight Don. I do think you have given me good advice on the sight and the rifle. I am going to be patient and look for a friend like ridurall (I have none that I am aware of), or a deal somewhere locally. There is an Old Reliable on G-B not over 40 miles from me that I may try to go look at. It didn't have a tang sight and I thought the opening bid price was too high, so I am not considering it at the moment. But at least I can take a look and hold it in my hands to get the feel of it if the seller will allow that. Not to muddy the water too much but I am also considering a high wall as a possibility. If I may ask, is the strength of the high wall action more or less than the Sharps action? I do like the looks of a high wall action. Thanks all, and if you see a deal that you can pass along please let me know.

[EDG]

Smoked
I am curious if you have ever fired both a Highwall and a Sharps.
I think it is a good thing to consider the highwall in your search.
I have both Browning and Sharps rifles. I am not too wrapped up in the Sharps aura so it is just design that competes with the Browning.
With that said the Browing is much, much stonger than the Sharps. The Browning rifles have been chambered for modern magnums so the black power rounds do not really strain it in the slightest.
Though I find the Sharps kind of attractive they do not match the highwall design. You can get much better wood on some Sharps but it is something that you chose to pay more for so it is not something that is inherent with every Sharps.
The Bowning BPCR rifles are excellent deals considering that they are selling for about $1400 with the sight set they came with from the factory. The rifles also have a Badger barrel and are very accurate based on my experiences. I will say that my Pedersoli Sharps are also very accurate and they were excellent deals for what I paid.
The main thing that bugs me about the Sharps is probably heresy to this group.
I find the double set trigger and the hammer set up kind of a drag.
With a highwall you lower the lever, load the rifle, raise the lever, sight and fire.

With a Sharps you need to protect the firing pin so the firing cycle gets kind of involved.
Assuming you have a fired round in the chamber you
Pull the hammer to half cock
lower the lever, extract the fired round
load and raise the lever
pull the hammer to full cock
pull the rear trigger to set the front trigger.
Finally you fire it.



ridurall that is eye candy for sure. I am looking for a friend like yours with something like that! Thanks for the input on the rear sight Don. I do think you have given me good advice on the sight and the rifle. I am going to be patient and look for a friend like ridurall (I have none that I am aware of), or a deal somewhere locally. There is an Old Reliable on G-B not over 40 miles from me that I may try to go look at. It didn't have a tang sight and I thought the opening bid price was too high, so I am not considering it at the moment. But at least I can take a look and hold it in my hands to get the feel of it if the seller will allow that. Not to muddy the water too much but I am also considering a high wall as a possibility. If I may ask, is the strength of the high wall action more or less than the Sharps action? I do like the looks of a high wall action. Thanks all, and if you see a deal that you can pass along please let me know.

[Don McDowell]

Smoked turkey if you're after a highwall, I'ld sure recommend the winchester bpcr. Very nice gun that shoots incredibly accurate. They of course aren't a Sharps, but it doesn't hurt to have at least one of each.

[6.5 mike]

Don called it on the sights, it really is a matter of getting what you pay for. While I very much enjoy my Sharps, the Hi-walls are my favorites. C Sharps 32-40, 30" badger bbl, nice wood, & set trigger, just do'nt get much better, LOL. And it never fails to turn heads when I un-case it.

[oldred]

Also Don't overlook the C sharps HighWall which is an extremely well built true original type HighWall rifle, unlike the thoroughly modern and complex new Winchester/Browning rifles. While the new Winchester/Brownings are certainly fine rifles they share little in design with the original type rifles like the C Sharps that in their rugged simplicity and nostalgic good looks are the true HighWalls. The newer versions have only a vaguely similar outward appearance and the internal action is almost totally different, very strong and functional yes but a modern design that's complex and contains many more parts than the original design plus being functionally different.

[smoked turkey]

EDG you have nailed me on your excellent question. I have briefly handled a Sharps in the past but at the time I had not seen Quigley Down Under and didn't have this burning desire for one. So I admit that I have been sucked into wanting one maybe for the wrong reasons. I have not fired either a HighWall or a Sharps. I am fairly practical, and the HighWall seems like a good substitute for what I want to do with a single shot rifle of this type, and that is punch paper and enjoy the looks and feel of a beautiful single shot rifle of either variety. Frankly, the cost difference is enough to get my attention and allow me to redirect my thinking process without giving up the desire to shoot a nice single shot rifle. I am also liking the fact that the HighWall is a much stronger action. Not that I have any intention of hot-rodding either one. It just appeals to the practical side of me. I really appreciate the responses and I am going to study the issue and try to get some hands on each one in an effort to see which is more appealing to me. I think I will always want a Sharps and perhaps if and when a nice one at a good price comes my way I can scratch the itch so to speak. Thanks for the input. Please don't give up on me. I'll get there. Sometimes the wanting and the journey getting there is almost as much fun as the getting if you know what I mean. I am trying to have patience.

[EDG]

Smoked
I only arrived at those comments by owning both rifles at the same time. If you ever get to Texas you are welcome to shoot my rifles. I am sure if you find a local shooter with both, he would be glad to let you try them. By firing both at the same time you will be able to contrast the two designs.

[Clinebo]

Everyone should own at least 1 Sharps in his/her lifetime...... be it Shiloh or C. Sharps. Both are excellent, well made rifles from the same street in Big Timber MT. You can stop at one....and drive a couple of blocks and be at the other. People come from all over to attend the Quigley Shoot in eastern MT. Got any vacation time coming up?? You can see them all in action. Good luck with your decision. ;)

[DeadWoodDan]

Sorry to high jack the thread This is great info. as I had stumbled on the Quigley site/shoot a few yrs ago and it sparked my interest in a Springfield TD i had sitting never shot by me. I have finally puchased the last component to start casting/loading this summer. A modern .45-70 has been on my to purchase list since reading about the Quigley match, always thought i would just shoot the TD if i could make it a decent shooter.

Will look at the Browning or Winchester BPCR maybe I can make this happen sooner than i thought. I really like the thought of hitting targets out to 800yds :D

DWD

[gmsharps]

I have had a desire to own a Sharps 74 for many years and in 93 I was able to take delivery of a 45-70 caliber rifle that had been ordered 5 years prior and the person that had ordered it had a chance at a dream gun of his and he could wait another 5 years for the Sharps. It was mighty close to what I would have ordered any way. It shoots great and I have never been happer with a rifle. When the Browning BPCR's came out I was one of the first to get one off the line (my backup rifle) and I opted to get a 40-65. That rifle shoots better than I can with the provided sites and some day if I can ever get to be a better shot than the gun thenI may change to a better set of sites. My suggestion is to try and attend a BPCR shoot and ask questions and look at the fantastic guns there and after the match someone will probably let you shoot some and then make your choice. You never know you might come across a decent deal there also.

gmsharps

[Don McDowell]

Sorry to high jack the thread This is great info. as I had stumbled on the Quigley site/shoot a few yrs ago and it sparked my interest in a Springfield TD i had sitting never shot by me. I have finally puchased the last component to start casting/loading this summer. A modern .45-70 has been on my to purchase list since reading about the Quigley match, always thought i would just shoot the TD if i could make it a decent shooter.

Will look at the Browning or Winchester BPCR maybe I can make this happen sooner than i thought. I really like the thought of hitting targets out to 800yds :D

DWD

DWD, just be aware that if you take your trapdoor to the Quigley, the new rules this year say that any original rifle must be inspected by a gunsmith, and only be loaded with blackpowder ammunition. Also if you are in or near Deadwood, you may want to run south on 385 the first weekend in May to Alliance Ne for the big shoot there, they have a trapdoor class.

[DeadWoodDan]

I wish i lived in the Dakotas, spent some time there with my Uncle who still resides somewhere North of Mithchelle S.D. thanks for the heads up on the new rules. i followed the mishap last year. I wish i had someone in Central IL to take both rifles in for inspection. I have talked to the closest gunsmiths in the area and neither have experience or would confirm safe to shoot. After some advice from other trapdoor shooters looks like i'm going to do the old tie it to a tire for first firing and proofing of loads.

[Don McDowell]

You might not want to proof load those old rifles. But certainly shoot normal loads in them. You might also contact those guys at Forsyth, there are a couple of them that could probably ok your guns at the shoot.

[Roundball]

Got lucky getting a Pedersoli "Billy Dixon" and a C. Sharps 1874 that came from an estate. Went broke on this deal but I'm only this way once. The C. Sharps is a superb rifle. The Pedersoli is in 45-90 and the C. Sharps is a 45-110. Both rifles are accurate. Things get complicated finding cartridge cases. I can keep an original 1885 running in 45-70 with no problem with Starline brass etc. The other cases are on back-order. Going with 45-70 may be the path of least resistance.

[oldred]

Wow, two Sharps and an 1885 in calibers 45/70, 45/90 and 45/110! It just don't git no better than that!:D

[Roundball]

Been accumulating these single shots over the years with the Sharps being the most recent. I was toast after shooting the first BP loads in the 45-110. It's great to be on a learning curve after retirement. All this has to do with being at the right place at the right time-also known as luck. It's good to be on the green side of the grass. Hope all works out well on your search for the Sharps. Keep in mind that all this can be highly addictive.

[smoked turkey]

I am still looking. I think I have broadened my search to include a highwall as well as a Sharps. I like the looks of both. It was suggested, and I agree with it, to try and get some hands on experience with each. In that way I can be more sure of my decision. Meanwhile perhaps I'll "get lucky" and find a good one at a good price. In that event that will help make up my mind. I do think that since 45-70 is more popular, I am leaning that way, but I have not ruled out any of the 45 calibers whether 90, or 120.

[oldred]

I think I have broadened my search to include a highwall

I would suggest trying both the original and the very different newer Winchester/Browning version for comparison if you can, the originals have that nostalgic 1800's simplicity and style in a strong and reliable design while newer ones seem to have much more in common with modern day single shots sharing only a vague outward appearance and little else, either would be an excellent choice.

[SchuetzenMiester]

HiWalls have the edge in strength for sure. The also have the edge as a target rifle; no big heaving hammer falling on the side of the action. HiWall hammer falls in the center of the action. Browning BPCR with a Badger barrel for the factory and fairly good sights was the best buy in BPCRs.

[John in PA]

About Shiloh 1874 action strength: I was friends with Wolf Droege from back in the Farmingdale, NY days. I was visiting at the factory early on when Wolf was just bringing out the 1874's. He showed me one that had been sent to HP White Laboratories for pressure testing. The gun handled all normal modern factory pressures including magnum rifle pressures. He told HP White to keep going till the gun blew up. At 200,000 psi, the receiver ring egged (stretched), releasing the barrel out the front. There was no fracture of metal or shrapnel, only stretching of the receiver ring. I saw and handled the receiver I'm talking about. Assuming the same alloys and casting procedures are still being used by the Bryans, strength is not an issue on the Shilohs. (The early breechblocks had a large firing pin diameter. That WAS an issue, as primers could fail, sending gas out the vent in the bottom of the breechblock. This was remedied with smaller firing pins in relatively early production (maybe within the first couple years(???) I replaced the block assemblies in my early ones for the new firing pin variation.

[Clinebo]

I thought some of you might like this article. Quite a man. : )
http://mtstandard.com/news/state-and-regional/forsyth-man-supports-participates-in-shooting-sports/article_030b0172-e65a-5fc5-851b-f4c88abf9bbe.html