44 1/2 calibers for hunting

[selmerfan]

I don't want to hijack kend's thread, but I've finally found some folks on here that actually have experience with Stevens 44 1/2 rifles other than handling one in awe at a gun show. I've got one in .22LR with original J.C. Stevens 6x scope with external ring adjustments in original condition, probably NRA good - no rust, no pitting, no speckling, just honest wear from when my great-grandfather used it in a small-bore match club. (Yes, I'll rub it in a little - pretty sweet inheritance!) From kend's thread I found out this is a take-down! I've always dreamed of having another barrel fitted for it, but I didn't want the hassle of having to set headspace etc, etc. every time I switched barrels - now I know that I don't. The barrel, which I guarantee has never been removed, twisted off last night with just hand pressure, still has wet grease on the threads. Now, the two important parts. Which (first) chambering should I get so that mom can watch me shoot a deer with her grandpa's rifle? usrca and I are thinking .30-30 or .30-40 Krag. I'm pretty sure the second barrel will have to be a varmint caliber, maybe a .225 Winchester, though obtaining brass can be a PITA. So, I'm very excited about the take-down feature and ease with which I can clean up the rifle - the outside is great, but the inside has the general carbon filth build-up of almost a hundred years and thousands of rounds, plus bore cleaning run-off. The function is 100% perfect with the best trigger I've ever encountered on a factory rifle. On a bright day with match ammunition I can literally write my initials at 50 yds with this rifle - it's that good - and I'd anticipate any barrel from www.singleshotrifles.com will be as good. So....what chambering would you get? Jacketed bullets are also fair game for the hunting purposes. Now to start "fund-raising"...

[selmerfan]

Well, I spoke with the kind folks at www.singleshotrifles.com Looks like I need to come up with about $800 to turn this into a centerfire hunting rifle with a match grade barrel. Pretty reasonable as far as I'm concerned. :) She said that the .30-30 and .30-40 Krag are on the limits of the pressure capabilities of the action I have. I can use them as long as I stay within moderate reloading data - the maximum loads might not be good for the gun. So the barrel is $600, breechblock $125, extractor is $20. Comes drilled and tapped for a Weaver scope mount so that I can use a modern scope on it if I so desire, and they can outfit me with an appropriate front site arrangement to match my current tang site. Very helpful, very patient, very knowledgeable folks. Fund-raising campaign starts today. First on the list - Ruger M77 Hawkeye in .30-06 :grin:

[RPRNY]

I really appreciate both 30-30 and 30-40. For your intended use, I would argue for 30-40 for two reasons. The first is that all modern data for 30-40 is old women loads based on the idea that 30-40 Krags are made of a chocolate and tin alloy that will explode at pressures exceeding standard velocity 22lr ammo, so you will be safe. The second is that Major Ned Roberts used a Stevens 44 1/2 rifle for thousands of rounds with the 25 Krag -Niedener cartridge (a precursor to his own 257 ROBERTS) and specifically states that it exceeded 30-40 Krag pressures. So you will be fine with 30-40 Krag loads. Secondly, the 30-40 loves heavy bullets. 210-220 GC (like the Lyman 311284) in very soft - BHN 8-10 - alloy pushed at 1600 - 1800 fps over a slowish powder would make an awesome deer rifle. If you are going farther than 200 yds you would need to beef up velocities and bullet hardness.

[rhbrink]

I would opt for the 30-40 and a 25 wildcat made from it but can you find 30-40 brass it is very hard to find at times.

RB

[uscra112]

Once the wood is removed, soak the action in Ed's Red for a couple of days. That'll loosen up the crud.

I've never had a problem coming up with Krag brass. It's still common to find it on Gunbroker. Huntington's always has it, too.

[RPRNY]

I just bought 100 ct Winchester from Graf's.

[selmerfan]

The thing is, I don't have a schematic on this thing if I take it apart. The adventuresome ADD part of me want to take the frame apart and really clean it out good. The common-sense part of me hears the voice of Grandpa Bob in the background "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" I'll probably listen to the common sense side until after I make the order and send the frame for fitting a new breech block, extractor, and barrel. The gal on the phone said that switching out the breechblock was a piece of cake, but unless I can see a schematic first, I'll not be sending CPA a box with parts and screws floating around in it. :grin:

[John Boy]

I'll probably listen to the common sense side until after I make the order and send the frame for fitting a new breech block, extractor, and barrel. The gal on the phone said that switching out the breechblock was a piece of cake, but unless I can see a schematic first, I'll not be sending CPA a box with parts and screws floating around in it.
selmerfan, The 'gal' on the phone is Gail, the owner - Paul Shuttleworth's daughter. Both Gail and Paul IMO can disassemble and assemble ANY Stevens 44 1/2 IN THE DARK.
You want a schematic? Here, but there is no need to study it because the action is a very simple design. Anyway ... http://www.gundigeststore.com/stevens-model-44-1-2-single-shot-rifle-exploded-gun-drawing-download

You might be interested to meet the Shuttleworths, both renowned in the United States for producing Single Shots that are of high quality and accurate ...
63113

BTW, I own a CPA 44 1/2 in Silhouette & Schuetzen styles with 4 different caliber barrels:bigsmyl2:

[rhbrink]

It's a very easy action to take apart actually quite simple. If you remove the set screw on the bottom and and push out the cross pin the lever and block and extractor all slide out the bottom. You can then do some serious cleaning right there. The big thing to watch out for is not to let the hammer all the way foreward as it can become unhooked from the main spring and then you will have to remove the stock to get things hooked back up. Which if you do remove the stock you them can remove the two horizonal screws on the lower side of the action toward the back and then slide the trigger group out to the rear. The hard part to put back together is to get the block, lever, and extractor holes all lined up for the horizonal pin to slide through. It's so easy a caveman could do it.

RB

[Mike Brooks]

I'd go with a 38-55.

[selmerfan]

Well, I went after the adventurous ADD side and let it reign. Took the action apart - probably not in the correct order, but I see it will be simple to swap out the breechblock/extractor for a different barrel. Cleaned out nasty, nasty gunk. And I was wrong. What I thought was smooth and sweet feeling now feels like a bank vault - gunk was in the way of the sharp snapping, etc. The trigger, if possible, is now even better without gunk covering the sear. I figured that if I could take apart the T/C frames and reassemble in under 5 minutes, I could do this. It's been apart before - I found one slightly buggered slotted screw head, but fortunately didn't bugger it further. Rather pleased with myself right now. :grin:

[MT Chambers]

I have an orig. 44 1/2 in 25/20SS and a CPA copy in .218 Mashburn Bee, I would limit cals. to those types of pressure cartridges, the 38/55 and .32/40 would be excellent.

[rhbrink]

Just make sure that when you replace the extractor that you have it turned the right direction. It's real easy to try to install it backwards. Don't ask me how I know this.

RB

[selmerfan]

Gail was fairly hesitant about recommending the .30-30 or .30-40, especially when she found out that I'm a handloader. "They'll handle it just fine as long as you don't do something stupid, like double charge the case, or forget powder in a case, get the bullet stuck in the barrel, then try to shoot the first bullet out with a second one. Or just fill the case with Bullseye, something stupid like that." I chuckled a bit. "Seriously, you would NOT believe what some idiots have done to our rifles." As long as I don't try to push maximum loads I'll be fine with the .30-30. Probably will shoot more cast loads than anything, but I'm sure I'll develop a hunting load with a 125 or 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip. Will a .30-30 handle a 311299 boolit? I asked John Barsness what he would do and he recommended the .30-30 choice for hunting as well, as the .30-40 recoil might get a bit sharp in a light rifle and the smaller case head will have reduced case head thrust.

[John Boy]

For some reason selmerfan, you've got this mind set it has to be a 30-30 jacket bullet. With all the calibers available for a CPA barrel, a 30-30 wouldn't even cross my mind. Neither would using a jacketed bullet - lead ones 100%

Mention of hunting - a 30-30, so that equates to MAX 300yd reload for medium size animals. Though I have shot an old time 30-30 lead Ideal bullet to 500 meters with a 7" group (iron sights), I personally would opt for a heavier lead bullet, ie, a 38-72 (275gr bullet) or a 40-65 (260gr bullet). The ballistic coefficient and sectional density of these bullets are better, plus they don't have to be hot rod'ed to reach mid and long range distances respectively with accuracy.

But based on your several posts, you have a mind set to shoot a jacketed bullet in a rifle that was designed for lead bullets and you don't even know that there is a 30-30 lead bullet that was designed by Ideal, the 311413 ... "to be the most accurate bullet out to 600 yds" And I proved the words in the 1949 Ideal catalog at 500 meters - 546yds in a Winchester 94 with iron sights
63151 Brinell 15.3 - 170.8gr
16.5gr IMR 4759

But it's your rifle and your $800, so do whatever your current mind set dictates

[Alan]

.35 Winchester. Lyman or the newer aluminum 358009.

[selmerfan]

The .35 Win certainly crossed my mind - I have a RD 359-190-RF and Lyman #358627 copy from my .357 Max days. John Boy - I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be taking shots at a mule deer with a .30-30 at 500 yds, sorry, I just don't roll that way, not enough punch at the end. I've done it with .308 and .30-06 past 450, but they've got a lot more to start with than the .30-30. Targets? Sure. But this will be a hunting barrel as well. My heart is certainly not set on the .30-30 or .30-40 Krag, but I do happen to have a good mold for each of them, though I'd like to use the pointy boolit in a single shot like this. The 311299 I have from NOE should work very well out of the Krag. Jacketed is an option, not a requirement, but I want flexibility! :) So - if those two didn't even cross your mind - what would cross your mind that I would have access to component for that won't put me in the poor house? .38-55 looks fairly anemic compared to either of them, but I'm only looking at paper figures - the good Lord knows those don't always tell the tale.

[selmerfan]

Maybe even a .25-35 Win - though that's going in opposite direction with caliber.

[John Boy]

what would cross your mind that I would have access to component for that won't put me in the poor house? The 40-65 caliber.
Dies-brass and reloading data are readily available both smokeless and black powder. Cases can be reformed from 45-70 brass. The reload is accurate from 100 - 1000yds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40-65_Winchester

The barrels on my CPA are 32-40 (200yd bullet), 38-72 (500 meter bullet), 40-65 (500m & 1000yd bullet) and 45-70 (500m & 1000yd) bullet. Only the 32-40 is loaded with smokeless, the others are all black powder reloads. The 32-40 and 40-65 barrels are mounted with Fecker scopes. In addition, I can shoot any barrel using a tang mounted Baldwin vernier and a windage adjustable front sight mounted on each barrel. Plus I have a Schuetzen and Silhouette stock for the action. I only hunt waterfowl but the combinations allow me to participate in Schuetzen matches and any of the NRA BPCR matches. I cast and reload several bullets for each caliber

With the 40-65, you too could use the caliber for hunting and the same shooting disciplines that I participate in - 50 meter to 1000yds

[uscra112]

.35 Winchester. That would be a good 'un. There's a .35 Krag wildcat - just the .35 Winchester chamber but a tad shorter and a lot easier to come up with brass. I've had a barrel from one of my Krags bored out for it, but haven't installed it yet. Dies are an issue - I found a .35 Winchester set and will grind them shorter when the time comes. Case capacity is such that you use .35 Remington data. Not a barn-burner at long range, but should be great out to 175 yards or so with 250 grain paper patched boolit. I still reckon the regular .30-40 would be better beyond 200 yards. Only reason I did mine it is that I'm a .35 lover, and I've got Krags in .22 Lovell, .219 Zipper, and .30-40, so why not have one in .35 caliber?

Somebody's likely to suggest .444 Marlin. That's rated slightly over 51,000 psi by SAAMI, and it's a .470" base diameter, so I'd be leery of it. Ditto the 7-30 Waters and the 7x57 Rimmed.

[wch]

I have several CPA rifles, and I agree with Mike Brooks.....38-55 is the way to go.

[357maximum]

.35Krag .....A.K.A .35LeverPower ....some Marlin 336's have had this conversion and I have yet to hear of someone that did it that did not like it.

[selmerfan]

Alright - you buggers have me looking at either the .38-55 or .40-65. The paper figures aren't impressive, but the TKO figures ARE - they make my .260 Remington loaded with 129 gr. Hornady's at 2825 look anemic. Plus either would be a cartridge "of the era" (not that the .30-30 or .30-40 Krag wouldn't be) So - what kind of velocities and accuracy are you getting from your .38-55 and .40-65s with a 28" barrel? These operate at pretty low chamber pressures, that's for sure!

[bob208]

opions are like belly buttons every body has one. heres mine. for the hunting barrel i would go with .32 win special. works good with cast and j bullets. works good with smokless and black. for varminets i would go with a 219 zipper or .25-35. that way you have the same extractor.

[john hayslip]

DeHas's book "Single Shot Rifles" a good section on the 44 1/2 - if no one around you has a copy send me a PM and I'll make a copy for you. I have one that was in 218 Bee when I got it (not the original caliber ) and now is in 30-30. In a single shot you can use a pointed boolit and the round is underloaded in the manuals to allow for the weaker 30-30 actions around so you can make a decent shooter out of the 30-30. Only advantage to the 30-40 is the longer neck. It is probably as strong as the hi wall and they did that in 405. For ease of extraction use a rimmed case. I've done business with the shuttlesworths - good people - "straight shooters"

[selmerfan]

I'm in conversation/consultation with Shuttleworth's as well. I definitely sensed an interesting hesitancy when they found out that I reload, as Gail said that my original 44 1/2 is on the edge of handling the upper end of the .30-30 chamber pressures. The .38-55 runs much lower pressures and velocities, but with that breech block and extractor I could do .30-30, .219 Zipper, .25-35, or 7-30 Waters, and probably a few others that I'm missing.

[John Boy]

I definitely sensed an interesting hesitancy when they found out that I reload, as Gail said that my original 44 1/2 is on the edge of handling the upper end of the .30-30 chamber pressures.
OK, now I got it - you have an original 44 1/2!
You'll be a damn fool to put a CPA caliber barrel on an original action that that has high pressures. You've stated velocities which equals pressures!

You DON"T REALIZE that the metal used for originals was substantially weaker than the metal used to make current CPA actions.

Do yourself a favor to prevent shrapnel in your face and a rifle that is broken parts ... LISTEN and ACCEPT the advice from Gail for the caliber barrel with a pressure comparable to an original 44 1/2 action that ultimately will go on your rifle.
And take this advice to the BANK.... LOAD THE ROUNDS TO BLACK POWDER PRESSURE VELOCITIES FOR THAT CALIBER!

[selmerfan]

Yes John Boy - it's an original. I thought I made that fairly clear in my original post. :grin: The safety factor is why I don't want to over-pressure the action, let alone do something incredibly stupid. I DO realize that the metal for the original actions is weaker than what CPA is using, plus there is slightly LESS metal in the action, about 1/8" narrower action, limiting the size of the barrel shank. Gail said I could use the .30-30 or .30-40 as long as I don't try to push the handloads past normal factory velocities. This is why the .38-55 looks like a good choice - low pressure, but the larger diameter and heavier weights work in favor as a hunting cartridge. So, John Boy, you have pretty strong opinions, I like that. In your opinion, with an original 44 1/2 action, what chambering should I look at for deer hunting?

[selmerfan]

I spoke with Paul over my lunch hour today. When I asked him which chambering he recommended for deer hunting with my original 44 1/2, he didn't even hesitate, ".30-30". I asked about the .38-55 and he said that would be fine as long as I don't exceed the light factory loads, like a 248 gr. bullet at around 1300 fps, I believe he mentioned 13.5 gr. 4759, but don't quote me on that. Unless I miss my guess, a 165 gr. .311" cast boolit at 2000 fps will shoot flatter than a .378" at 1300 fps He said I couldn't push the .38-55 to modern levels in my action, but I'd be fine pushing the .30-30 with cast or jacketed 165-170 gr. bullets to 2000 fps without any troubles.

[John Boy]

Interesting that Paul would 'override' Gail's apprehension about a 30-30. Then again, he is Mr CPA and knows a lot about the original 44 1/2 action. Don't hot rod the reloads!

[uscra112]

Do not let John Boy's hammering the panic button bother you. That sort of "advice" gets shouted out occasionally, and while it has a modicum of validity when applied to the 1880s cast Ballards, the 44 1/2 is no Ballard. The original 44 1/2 is an excellent forged steel action, made of the best steels available in 1912 to 1915, not the "steel" of 1885. Steel manufacturing moved as far in those 30 years as the computer industry has in our era.

The main reason to avoid certain cartridges in the 44 1/2 is the relatively small diameter of the barrel shank. If you put a half-inch-base-diameter case in it, (i.e. the .45-70), the wall of the chamber is too thin to provide enough hoop strength for the 50K+ psi pressures that some of those cartridges are loaded to by modern-day extremists. This I think is why the Shuttleworth Stevens uses a larger barrel shank - it enables the action to be built for cartridges for which the original was never intended, but which are wildly popular today among many single-shot fans.

It galls me to see history so misinterpreted! The historical record seems to indicate that the 44 1/2 was designed to be the ultimate Schuetzen action - possibly with input from Harry Pope, although he was long gone from Stevens by the time the 44 1/2 was actually introduced. By then the bolt action had taken over as the machine of choice for high power cartridges, a complete reversal of the situation in the black powder era when repeaters were weak, and the really big hammers were chambered in single shots! When finally introduced, it was touted as a replacement for the anemic Model 44, which was purely a small-game rifle. As a Schuetzen, the 44 1/2 barrel shank would have been designed for nothing bigger than the .32-40 family, plus the .28-30, .25-20 and .25-21 Stevens, and of course a great many for the .22 rimfire, as selmerfan's was. (One of mine is a .25-21, another a .25-20; my "biggest" one is a .32-40. I also have one wildcatted to the Lovell R2, a round that was being loaded past 60,000 psi in the years just before WW2. The Lovell, loaded like that, had very short case life, and not infrequently blew primers, but there is no record that it ever blew up a 44 1/2 action!)

The neck on a .30-40 is only about .060 longer than a .30-30. Neither here nor there IMHO. The Krag does have a good bit more powder space though, which makes it a natural for launching a 200 grain boolit at 2250 fps, using a slow powder like 4350, but still staying in the 40,000 psi pressure range. (As calculated by Quickload, anyway.)

To repeat myself - a safety issue with the 38-55 is that a .375 Winchester round will fit and fire in that chamber, which given the 55K psi SAAMI pressure of the .375 Win., is a potential hazard. Not knocking the old .38, just a consideration for future generations. Paul's concern with pushing the .38-55 may be that even new brass today is not ss thick in the web as the .30-30, BTW.

Hey .357Max! I have never heard of a Krag round fitting into a 336 action! If it does, you've just ruined my finances for the next year or two. Lessee, do I need another 336 in .35 Remington to ream out.... What about magazine and lifter? Then a different bolt, I suppose? Or must you start with a .45-70 Marlin and rebarrel? Fill me in.

[RPRNY]

Sorry for the digression, but I too would lover to hear more about the 30-40 or 35-40 in a 336!

[selmerfan]

Hijack! Go ahead, I think the original topic has run its course. If I want a good barrel for deer hunting at a 200 yd max range, I'll invest in the .30-30. Plus I already have brass, dies, molds, bullets, boolits, and powders for it. One of the smaller varmint cartridges certainly interests me as well - I'd love a .219 Zipper, but not the price of dies and components! Maybe a .25-35 is in the future...but I'll start with the .30-30.

[selmerfan]

Well, so much for settled ideas. After doing some more research and comparing/contrasting trajectories and other data, for those of you steering me away from the .30-30, go ahead and say it. "I told you so." The .38-55 runs at a lower pressure and velocity without giving up a lot in trajectory and gaining a lot on the terminal end. Back to the drawing board, .38-55 might be "it". Good thing I haven't ordered anything yet.

[Nobade]

My paper patched 38-55 loads, duplex loaded with four grains of smokeless and a compressed load of 51gr. of black FFg, are throwing a 275gr. boolit at 1450 fps from my H&R handi rifle. Pressures plenty safe for your rifle, very accurate, and a ton of fun to shoot. Since you are not length limited with your ammo, that may be an avenue to explore. (boolits are in the case about .100", so ammo is very long) No resizing of the cases, only die used is a powder compression die, so case life is great too. If you like playing with this kind of stuff it does work well...

-Nobade

[selmerfan]

I have not ventured into paper-patching, as I have everything I need for lubed boolits. From what I have read, PP seems to be a bit of an "art" and I'm not sure I want to learn, nor switch my molds to PP, though I don't have any for a .38-55. I've never loaded Holy Black in a cartridge - are the weights listed weights or volumetric?

[KCSO]

I wouldn't rate the 44 1/2 that strong and action and would stick with say 32-40 or 38-55 or something under 30,000 PSI. I never saw an original in anything as heavy as a 30-40 Krag. I have done a couple for a friend but they were in 32-40 and 32-20. I want to do one for me someday in 38-55.

[selmerfan]

I'm coming around to the .38-55. The trajectory isn't all that different than the .30-30, but it cuts a bigger hole and hits much harder at difference.

[rhbrink]

Now we're talking! It's a great cartridge and should be able to push a 250 grain cast boolit to the same pressures that a 30-30 uses, the same size case head diameter, bigger boolit, bigger meplat and probably more accurate.

RB

[RPRNY]

Very worth discussing which 38-55 chamber they are using. Is it the old Ballard chamber for paper patched bullets with a generous throat and true .379 - .380 bore or the tighter .375 ish tight chamber? Very worth discussing. NoBade has a good deal of experience with these issues as I recall.

[badgeredd]

To repeat myself - a safety issue with the 38-55 is that a .375 Winchester round will fit and fire in that chamber, which given the 55K psi SAAMI pressure of the .375 Win., is a potential hazard. Not knocking the old .38, just a consideration for future generations. Paul's concern with pushing the .38-55 may be that even new brass today is not ss thick in the web as the .30-30, BTW.

An excellent thought for serious consideration. I'd favor the 30-30. perhaps the 35/30-30, and the 25-35 for varmints and deer. Reasons are cartridge size, loading pressures, same extractor, and availability of brass. Any or all can be used with cast boolits or those nasty j-words. Ease of loading and boolit/bullets avaiable. I would stay away from the 38-55 for the reason given above.

Edd

[Mike Brooks]

My CPA shoots a .376 tapered 330gr HOCH bullet that is breech seated.

[selmerfan]

Update - after much email conversation with Gail, I'm ready to send my frame out to CPA. They'll be fitting it for a 28" half-octagon/half-round Douglas XX barrel chambered in .30-40 Krag with a standard throat for the Krag. If they get my frame and for some reason decide that they are not comfortable with the Krag, they will chamber in .30-30 WCF. They will fit a new breech block and extractor as well. It will come drilled and tapped to accept either their modified Weaver 63-B base for modern optics or Unertl blocks so that I can use my old Stevens scope if I so choose. Also having them install a Lyman 17AHB front sight. The price certainly isn't cheap, but I'm looking forward to having a "new" gun that is rather unique, and the Krag will accommodate jacketed bullets as well as my 311299 GC and PB boolits. Should take 6-8 weeks from me shipping out to me receiving it back.

[RPRNY]

Congratulations! 30-40 is a great choice. The 311299 is a classic boolit and the 311284 is another great choice. Cast with loads based on Re7 or IMR4198 (Glen Fryxell has a nice article on cast loads for the 30-40) should give you good 200 yard accuracy at moderate velocities and pressures. If you go jacketed I suggest you stick with heavy bullets in the 180 - 200 gr range and try something nice and slow like H4350 to keep pressures down but give you accuracy.

That's a lovely rifle you've got and a classic caliber. Do tell us how it goes!

[selmerfan]

Action and buttstock are carefully packed and in the UPS truck, headed for CPA.

[John Boy]

Action and buttstock are carefully packed and in the UPS truck, headed for CPA. FINALLY!
Sure hope you sent a box of good chocolates to Gail also for all the help she provided to you.
If you plan to use a scope, what rear sight are you going to use with the Lyman globe?

[wch]

I'd go with a 38-55.

I have one of CPA's rifles with three barrels, and my next will be a 38-55.

[selmerfan]

I want the option of using a modern scope for hunting - I wouldn't be real keen on something happening to the 100+ y/o Stevens external adjustment scope that goes with it - that will be target range only. The rear sight that the rifle has is a Pope Schuetzen sight in good condition (had an offer of $900 for the sight alone over at ASSRA, unsolicited, just based on pictures - that's enough verification for me). I'll have to play with it to see what kind of elevations I can get with it, but I may consider hunting with just the open sights as well. Certainly will target shoot with the open sights.

[selmerfan]

CPA is now in possession of my rifle and it's on the work list....anxiously waiting now!

[Mike Brooks]

Good! Change your mind to a 38-55 or 38-50.

[Safeshot]

Keep it as is. It is a "Wonderful Rifle" as is. It is "Not Broke" (Heed grandfathers advice) "Do Not Fix It". Enjoy it as it is, for what it is, and where it came from, and the history behind it. The $800.00 (or a little more) will buy one (or two) rifles in about any caliber you desire. There are a number of Ruger #1's on the internet for $725 up to $1200 and above. In a variety of calibers (45/70, .405 Win, .38/55 and others) Some come with scopes, sights or other accessories. A modern design with modern materials more than adequate strength for almost ANY caliber. Then you will have the best of both worlds. There are also the "Rolling Blocks" and the "Sharps" to consider. I think that most of the Model 44&1/2 rifles were built as .22 rim fire caliber, perhaps for a reason. Just one persons opinion, Safeshot