How they cram 2&1/4oz into a 3" 12ga (w/ pics)

[cpileri]

If i can post pictures anyway. we'll see...

Anyhow, i am still on my heavy shotgun load kick (no pun intended); and decided to see what the 'secret' was, if any, that Nitro Ammunition Co uses to cram 2.25oz into their lead buckshot loads.

I disassembled load B301 (Buckshot load [bottom of webpage], 3" 2&1/4 oz No4Buckshot).

First pic is the shell, w purple and green plasti-dip-type sealant on the crimp. The stuff was dry, malleable, but not so hard as to be needed to reinforce the crimp.

[cpileri]

the headstamp, fwiw.
62938

[cpileri]

6 point crimp, opened62939

[cpileri]

shot and buffer, shot was smooth lead balls. buffer is white w little black flecks in it.62940

[cpileri]

weighing 1010gr together. 2.25oz is alot of shot!
62941

[cpileri]

6294362945629466294762948

Wow lets see if I can post em all at once...

Pic 6: the secret, a thin mylar wrap instead of the chot cup! Doesnt take up space, and only weight in a around 15grains

Pic 7: weight of shot, buffer and wrap.

Pic 8: a neat case seal, with a little ridge to keep the wrap on the outside of the case wall. I am not good at identifying components, so as to comment on its commercial availability

Pic 9: powder is 33gr of tiny, shiny, flattened discs. Not sure what it is, maybe some can identify it by looking.

Pic 10 is just a single no4 buck pellet, weighing in at just around what a .24" lead ball should. Sorry about the upside down pic.

Anyway, hope this $4.00 shell dissection was interesting!
C-

[TRG3]

Good photo story. You did an excellent job of showing how 2 1/4 oz. of lead is stuffed into that 3" hull. I'm assuming that it's only a matter of time until nearly 3 oz. of lead makes its way into a 3 1/2" hull.

[Carryacolt]

Is the wad in your hand, the over powder(seal) wad?

[cpileri]

yes, wad in hand; smaller ridge points "up" with largest diameter over the powder directly.

the white canister holding the shot/buffer is just a 35mm film canister to hold it all (canister not weighed, zeroed out of the weight shown)

3oz! that would be a bruiser.

C-

[35remington]

The multicolor seal on the crimp was doing just what it was designed to do and no more. Not reinforce the crimp, but rather to prevent the buffer from leaking out of the possible tiny hole at the center of the crimp if no sealant was present.

Nice photos and very interesting dissection, thanks for spending the 4 bucks on it. Looks like a near honest 2.25 ounces was present as the buffer and shot weigh 2.308 ounces.

I don't know that such "cramming" would get 3 ounces in a 3 1/2 inch shell. More likely 2.5 ounces or so, maybe a little more, but certainly not 3. That's too high a percentage of increase to be possible.

Given that 2.25 ounces of shot is painful in my not much over 7 lb. 24" 3 1/2 inch 835, 2.5 ounces would not be enjoyable. 2.25 ounces in my short barreled 3" Mossberg at well under 7 pounds would not be fun either.

[Greg]

this gas seal looks just like a Ballistic Products Gas Seal ~BPGS~ is the old catalog number

www.ballisticproducts.com


62946



Pic: a neat case seal, with a little ridge to keep the wrap on the outside of the case wall. I am not good at identifying components, so as to comment on its commercial availability C-

[BCall]

The gas seal looks like a BPGS, pretty much a modern version of the older Alcan PGS (or plastic gas seal). At least that's what it looks like.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/BPGS-12ga-gas-seal-250_bag/productinfo/3221200/

BPI also sells the mylar wraps.

[BCall]

Greg beat me to it.

[cpileri]

I also found a product called Duralar that comes in big sheets, and if you are willing to take the time to cut to shape, can make your own wraps much cheaper.
Btw, BPI lists 2 thicknesses of wraps, and the one in the Nitro load is the "thin" variety: .003". BPI's are listed as 2&5/16" x 1&5/8".
I can measure the dimensions when I get home.
C-

[375RUGER]

That looks more like the teflon wrap than the mylar wrap. Mylar I bought was clear. I would not try to replicate that load substituting mylar or duralar for teflon. The teflon is a lot slicker and using another material will cause pressure to rise quickly.

[cpileri]

thats a good point and i dont know: the BPI wraps are definitely Mylar, but the Nitro wrap, if its teflon, very well could behave diferently when fired thru a barrel.
And PTFE sheet is much more expensive.
C-

[cpileri]

My mistake: BPI sells teflon as well. Dimensions are:
Length = 2-1/4"
Width = 1-1/2"
Thick: .010"

SInce the teflon sheet I found was expensive, and how many do you need (as in, you can cut ALOT of wraps from the sheet; but do you need a thousand?!?!); it might be worth it to get the BPI ones.

And I need to go re-measure the wrap, if i didnt throw it out already.

If I was duplicating the load...

C-

[375RUGER]

To save money I bet they didn't use the BP teflon.
You can get teflon sheet from C.S. Hyde .001"-.125" thick
Per sq ft it's not a bad price. It cuts easy with a paper cutter. WAG about 50/sq.ft. depending on cut size.
.
http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/films/ptfe-skived-film?
.
Teflon is the way to go. I have some UHMW becasue it was free, it is tougher than the teflon but has to be downloaded because it is not as slick.
Another WAG would be HS-6 or Longshot for the powder, both look similar to what you show.

[357maximum]

Primex powder is used in alot of uuuber heavy loads, I only know that Primex exists...not sure what it looks like though, doesn't really matter as "WE" cannot get it anyway.

[cpileri]

good find on that teflon sheet.

[Buckshot Bill]

Assuming one would be crazy enough to shoot this load out of an average weight 3" chambered gun, how would YOU go about determining the correct powder and amount to use? I agree it looks similar to longshot, most 2 1/4 oz loads for 3 1/2" shells call for between 30 and 36 grains of longshot. Your thoughts?

[cpileri]

Who me?
or, rather...ME?
;)
I wouldn't. I dont do experimental load development much. i just use what others more experieced have come upon, even if the loads dont appear in loading manuals. So i am not unwilling to experiment, i just dont have the experience to start from scratch myself.
But I did shoot some 1&7/8oz loads yesterday as described here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?199731-Safety-of-hubel-Sabot-in-875-muzzle-thickness-barrel/page2
using 28-29gr of Longshot, and they HURT. So using 30-36gr in an even heavier load? not for me thanks!

i have tried these Nitro Ammo loads in a 870, and they did kick but not so bad as you'd think. So i don't knw if its longshot, or becasue I used a lighter gun yesterday or something else.

Sorry, i'm not much help.
C-

[Hogtamer]

More lead doesn't mean a good pattern. I loaded something comparable and proportional in 2 3/4 that was a total failure as to pellets on paper. The best (tightest) load I've come up with is 8 - OO pellets in a steel shot wad (VP-65) with buffer. At 30 yds all were in 6" circle. At 50 yds got 6 in a 12 in. Circle - both better than factory 9 pellet loads.

[OnHoPr]

More lead doesn't mean a good pattern. I loaded something comparable and proportional in 2 3/4 that was a total failure as to pellets on paper. The best (tightest) load I've come up with is 8 - OO pellets in a steel shot wad (VP-65) with buffer. At 30 yds all were in 6" circle. At 50 yds got 6 in a 12 in. Circle - both better than factory 9 pellet loads.

That's pretty good.