Great results with Forestr Hollowpointer

[Forester]

So I have not been around here much recently because I tend to focus on shooting in the summer and casting in the winter. A thread on another forum got me to thinking about the Forestr Hollowpointing setup I ordered recently but had not put to the test yet.

The results were pretty impressive to me.

Rifle is an old top eject Winchester 94. It has a Williams Peep sight on it and is my truck gun for coyotes, groundhogs and anything else that just needs to be shot:Fire: I have also done some deer hunting with it using J-word bullets.

I wanted to improve the expansion some with my cast boolits so I ordered up the Forster hollowpointer with hopes that it might also improve accuracy some small amount.

My best groups with J-word bullets were about 3.5" @100yards...pitiful really.

The boolit I cast myself and it is a Lyman 311041. (173gr, FN Gas Check) sized to .309. The Load is 32.5gr of Win 760 OAL 2.530" Remington LR primer. 1850fps over the Chronograph.

I cast them from WW alloy and they were sized on a RCBS lubrisizer using Thompson Blue Angel lube. The boolits were water dropped.

I checked the zero first and came up with an average group size of 2.5 inches at 100yards. That is about what this load has always done and I figured was the best I would get out of a 30 year old lever action with peep sights.

My hollow pointed rounds had the same load data as above, loaded at the same time. They posted a very impressive (to me at least), and best ever for me with this gun 1.375 inches.

If my math is right thats an improvement from 2.39MOA to 1.31MOA. Sounds good to me!

Has anyone else seen such dramatic improvements just by hollowpointing boolits? I have not shot them into newspaper or anything yet to see about the expansion. Has anyone tried a side by side test like this to see what kind of help the hollowpoint gives to expansion?

[sundog]

Forester, thanks for the range report. I have been thinking mighty heavily on one for quite a spell. Might be time to raid the piggy bank.

[Bent Ramrod]

I read an article once about Canadian blackpowder target shooting at long range (was it Connaught?), with .450 rifles of one type or another, and the author said many of the shooters preferred hollow points because the cavity set the center of gravity further back in the bullet and improved accuracy.

And, according to the late great Al Goerg, a cut or drilled hollow point is supposed to be superior in game performance to a cast-in-place one. Come to think of it, I have one of those drill gizzies around someplace myself. Have to dig it out and give it a try.

[Forester]

Forester, thanks for the range report. I have been thinking mighty heavily on one for quite a spell. Might be time to raid the piggy bank.

If it matters to ya, That Forster case trimmer actually does a bang up job of...trimming cases too.

I used to use either the Lee setup or a Lyman Lathe type but neither really cut the case mouths as square as I would like. As square as I would like is defined as as square as I can measure. The Forestr setup does that very well.

I would sugget if you reload a number of calibers like most of us that you go ahead and get the short and long bases for the case trimmer because you can swap the guts from one to another pretty easily. The extra base is about $15-16.

I will post some pictures tomorrow if anyone is interested.

Edited to add: dont bother trying to hollowpoint with the Forster hollowpointer chucked in a drill, it wont take long to break the bit and the results are not much to look at either.

[Edward429451]

I'm interested in seeing the pics as I've been thinking on this one for a while also.

I have an RCBS Trim-Pro, does a hollowpointer for it exist or the forester be adapted maybe?

[gray wolf]

What about me??????? I have a Redding case trimmer what can I use?

[Larry Gibson]

Forester

I have the Forster HPer but my 311041 is a HP mould anyways. I've always gotten inpressive accuracy out of that bullet, not only in the M94 30-30 but in couple M99s and several bolt guns other .30 caliber cartridges. After much experimenting I found that the deep HP of the factoy stem (went down to the middle of the front driving band) was too deep for good controlled expansion.

Also with air cooled WWs the expansion petals broke off quickly. I now cast them out of hard magnum shot (3-5% antimony) alloy that has no tin in it. Water droppd from the mould these harden enough to withstand 2000 fps out of the M94 and give very good expansion in deer. At that velocity accuracy holds very well for the first 5 shots out of the clean barrel. The next 5 open the group but it is still god and leading becomes apparent at the muzzle end of the bore. It cleans out easily though and I figure for a hunting bullet if I've not got the deer in the first 5 shots I might as well go home anyway. I got the idea of using this alloy from reading Paco Kelly's articles.

I then began shortening the HP stem until the bullets gave good controlled expansion in soggy wet news print. Experience on deer, jack rabbits and a few rock chucks show that expansion is good in them. I'm not home now to measure it but the HP now goes down about 1/3 the length of the nose.

Larry Gibson

[Forester]

Forester

I have the Forster HPer but my 311041 is a HP mould anyways. I've always gotten inpressive accuracy out of that bullet, not only in the M94 30-30 but in couple M99s and several bolt guns other .30 caliber cartridges. After much experimenting I found that the deep HP of the factoy stem (went down to the middle of the front driving band) was too deep for good controlled expansion.

Also with air cooled WWs the expansion petals broke off quickly. I now cast them out of hard magnum shot (3-5% antimony) alloy that has no tin in it. Water droppd from the mould these harden enough to withstand 2000 fps out of the M94 and give very good expansion in deer. At that velocity accuracy holds very well for the first 5 shots out of the clean barrel. The next 5 open the group but it is still god and leading becomes apparent at the muzzle end of the bore. It cleans out easily though and I figure for a hunting bullet if I've not got the deer in the first 5 shots I might as well go home anyway. I got the idea of using this alloy from reading Paco Kelly's articles.

I then began shortening the HP stem until the bullets gave good controlled expansion in soggy wet news print. Experience on deer, jack rabbits and a few rock chucks show that expansion is good in them. I'm not home now to measure it but the HP now goes down about 1/3 the length of the nose.

Larry Gibson

Thanks for that information. I have been using water dropped WW alloy and there is zero expasion in anything short of a steel plate:rolleyes:

The good news is there is zero leading in my M94 at 1850fps and in a friends microgroove Marlin up to 2100fps.

I am going to try the hollowpointed boolits in newsprint both air cooled and water quenched to see what I come up with. I have the depth set maybe a little more than a third the length of the nose currently.

Here ae several pics of the setup, sorry for the poor quality, its a new camera and I can't seem to make it do better close up.

[Forester]

friend of mine has one of the forester hollow pointers but was a little conserned about getting them to center every time so what i did was make a devise that centerded the bullet and case the same for every one says it works very well now

I have not had a problem with this. If the case is straight, and the boolit seated straight...the hollowpointer can not help but drill a centered hole.

Do you have pictures of what you made??

[Pepe Ray]

Sounds to me like Fish Hawk had only the drill and was missing the centering sleeve, so had to make one.

Gr Wolf; The Redding pilots are the same size as the Forster pilots. A good sub when local availability is a problem.
Pepe Ray

[scrapcan]

This is a great topic and for more than the terminal performance of the given boolit. I took Fluid dynamics a few years ago (as many of you have also) and one topic that I had to bring up in the discussion of fluid dynamics was airflow around a hollow point versus a solid point. I did some literature review and found ther was research that indicated better airflow and less turbulance if you have an airpocket/bubble/etc.. that the air flows over instead of a bullet jacket.

I broached this subject on the pohone with a Sierra tech and he discussed their produciton of matchking bullets that have a small hollow point cavity at the nose.

and to another topic. I have an old yankee HP mould that is close to a 311041 form that Buckshot built a new pin for. I am very anxious to see if I can duplicate what you guys are reporting.

[Larry Gibson]

Also note that Forster has thesmaller drill for the HP, this was for .358 bullets and smaller. There was also a larger one for larger calibers. I use the smaller one and then use a tapered drill made to drill the pilot hole for sling swivel studs to open up the HPs for even more rapid expansion. I hand turn it and it makes the HP like Lyman "Devastator" HPs. I'm not home now or I'd post a picture. Won't be home until next month so if someone jogs my memory aoround themiddle of September I'll post pictures.

Larry Gibson

[Nueces]

Wow, manleytj, that is good stuff! Got me thinking that the better 'nose flow' would likely mean a higher ballistic coefficient. I remembered that Lyman's BC measurements of their designs showed the 358429 as being unusually high, so the 358439 should be even better.

Then, I looked up Keith's description of wringing out the new 357 Magnum with his 38-44 handloads and confirmed that his protege, Dick Tinker, indeed shot the long range targets for McGivern's book with the 358429HP.

Thanks also to Bass Ackward and others, for continuing to bring up this HP = accuracy business.

I'll say it again - Including glitches and gripes, this is the net's finest forum.

Mark

[Forester]

Wow, thanks to all who have added their expertise here. Next up for me is to test the same depth of HP on this boolit in two friends rifles with their own favored load.

One of the other rifles is a similar age M94 with a load using 4198 making around 1500fps. The other is a Microgroove Marlin and a load using 748 making 2100fps.

[LiquidLead]

I use the smaller one and then use a tapered drill made to drill the pilot hole for sling swivel studs to open up the HPs

Larry Gibson

Larry, how was this taper drill fitted, mounted, chucked or whatever to the Forster. I can't tell by the pictures how the drills are held. I assume a hex shaft or something similar. Was this taper drill made the same way?

Mike

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, how was this taper drill fitted, mounted, chucked or whatever to the Forster. I can't tell by the pictures how the drills are held. I assume a hex shaft or something similar. Was this taper drill made the same way?

Mike

Wasn't used in the Forster trimmer Mike, It is hand held. I have a drill chuck (I imagine it could be mounted in a handle of sorts easily) I put it in for easy hand use. The few I use for actual hunting are hand reamed that way. The pilot hole with the Forster HPer makes it easy. I mostly do it when whatching TV; amazing how many can be done during a good John Wayne or Tom Selleck western although movies like Ghost and The Darkness on the 42" Plazma screen are pretty cool. I am beginning to experiment with HPing the RCBS 35-200-FP for use in the M91 .35 Remington Mauser rifle. Mostly I use it with .41, .44 and .45 hand gun loads for serious jack rabbit destruction. Howevr it also is very useful with trapdoor level 45-70 loads. Guess I use it more than I thought now that I'm thinking about it. Useful tool it is.

Larry Gibson

[AZ-Stew]

manleyjt,

It would be interesting to know why Sierra and Hornady use a small hollowpoint opening, while Speer uses a much larger one, except for their TNT (I'm talking .22 cal here). All seem to be capable of fine accuracy. Any insights?

Regards,

Stew

[LiquidLead]

Wasn't used in the Forster trimmer Mike, It is hand held. I have a drill chuck (I imagine it could be mounted in a handle of sorts easily) I put it in for easy hand use.
Larry Gibson

Thanks Larry,
I finally found a good picture of the drill and collet on Midway's site. I sure like their pictures. When I first saw the actual hollow point holes, I thought "that needs a center drill". I hadn't thought about how easy that would be to do with a taper drill. I tend to 'over do' some things.

I can see that the precision of a center mounted tapering drill would not really be necessary. I have a machinist's chuck on my wood lathe, and probably have done it the hard way. :confused:

I have been considering this thing for some time now, but was hoping someone else would be the Guinea Pig. [smilie=1:

I see new holes in my future. :-D

Looking at the clock, I see your hours are as bad as mine.

Mike

[scrapcan]

AZ-Stew,

I don't have a good answer for you on the PH size difference. I would be very interested to know if others have any insight though.

It may mean a call to their tech line.

on another note sinclair international has a tool that is suposed to correct and standardize the meplate fro increased accuracy. I had wondered if someone with mroe tools and time than myself could make one of these for hoolow ointing and uniforming cast bullets see the attached page.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=RECTACSI&item=05-50XX&type=store

[Bigscot]

I'm interested in seeing the pics as I've been thinking on this one for a while also.

I have an RCBS Trim-Pro, does a hollowpointer for it exist or the forester be adapted maybe?

I called Forester to see if it would fit other trimmer brands and all the lady would say was that the shank of the hpointer is .186 in. A little less than 3/16th". Could not get much information out of her.

Bigscot

[Pepe Ray]

Neither Lyman nor RCBS are that size. Only Forster and Redding.
For the affordable brands. Don't know a thing about Sinclair or other of the eletes.
Pepe Ray

[hollow-point]

i have 2 lyman moulds #245496 @#245496hp. both shoot 1-2inchgroup@50yds. hp sometimes opens up to2 1-2inch. when #245496 is h-pointed with forster h-pointer it opens group size similar! also have #358429@358429hp,454424@454424hp,358156@358156hp. both 358,s are shot thru 1894 marlin plain rifling. no great difference ingroup size except for 358156 h-pointed with forster 1/8th h-pointer without g/c closes up 1/2inch@50 yds! loads are15 grns 2400 for .357. 18gns #2400 for.45 1892 rossi. results very similar. 2-2i/2inch@50yds. load for .243win. pre-64 mod 70 is30 grs.#4064. ihope to test.30-06@.30-30 with different moulds. will post when done. could anyone help with #311440 or any.30 plain or h-p? very hard to find in australia!