Is a hardness tester a must?

[elginrunner]

I'm still in the gathering stages of equipment, and have yet to cast a single boolit. How important is a hardness tester? Should it be on my buy list before I send one of my projectiles down range??

[Bullshop]

To answer a question with a question - how many buffalo hunters had hardness testers?

[btroj]

I managed to shoot cast bullets for almost 30 years without one. You tell me?

It MAY allow you to have more consistent results. It will NOT make you a better caster, loader, or shooter.

A tester is just another bit of equipment. It isn't the end all, be all. It isn't required by any stretch.

If just starting out I would say wait to buy a tester. Cast, load, shoot. That will teach way more than a tester will.

A tester can lead you into being too tied to BHn, a bad thing in my opinion.

[MtGun44]

NO. It is SOMETIMES useful, and people worry about BHN a LOT more than is necessary.

Bill

[runfiverun]

if you have to blend a bunch of different alloys and want something about the same all the time,or get a bunch of unknown alloy's and want a clue it's real handy.

[Catshooter]

As usual, runfiverun nails it. They have their uses, and can help when trying to sort out issues, but you don't have to have one.


Cat

[Raven_Darkcloud]

Nope again she lied, it is the size that matters. A good fit is first.

[cwheel]

When I was about 10 got to join my grandfather for my first casting. We started the propane furnace and started throwing scrap lead into a big cast iron pot. After melting and mixing it, we cast some 158gr. semi wadcutter bullets and weighed them. Lyman #2 should have yealded a 158 gr. slug, but it came out heavy. Grandfather mixed in more lead of a different density until our casting yealded about a 157 gr. slug adv. He went on to say that within 2 gr. we would call it good enough. No way of knowing the alloy of the scrap we were using, his way was to get close to the same weight out of the casted round as Lyman#2 would have yealded. Once we got the right alloy ( or the alloy that would produce the right weight ) he took 2 bullets over to a vise with a big hammer. He gave the bullets a good wack on the nose and looked at the now deformed bullet. What he was looking for was that the bullet heald together, did not split or crack. He had saved several from the first castings as we were mixing and gave them the same wack with the hammer, and sure enough the ones that came out lite cracked and split with the same blow. Does hardness matter, not sure, but we never did have any leading out of the many batches we mixed,cast, loaded, and fired using this method. Never used anything other than scrap lead, no way of knowing the content. The other thing not mentioned is we used burned out nickel babit to adjust the weight, or density, of the mix. High nickel content I'm sure added to the hardness of the mix. Some blends hit the weight of the mold first try, we used with great results as well. I'm convinced that the weight of the bullet, and holding that weight batch to batch means much more than hardnes when it comes to the same point of impact with a given powder charge. I think shooting for a given hardness and forgetting about the weight causes different pressures in the round and changes the point of impact batch to batch, than the hardness of the bullet. Just a opinion.
Chris

[1Shirt]

Agree wotj BTroj. Nice to have for an experianced caster who has everything else, but about as necessary to an inexperianced caster as hemoriods.
1Shirt!

[texassako]

I use the pencil test: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?75455-Testing-hardness-with-pencils
I have a lot of mystery lead, but at least the pencils let me segregate ingots by hardness.

[elginrunner]

Thanks for the replys, it gives me something to think about. Oh look 25 post :mrgreen:

[Kull]

Great info. I'm just starting out casting and have wondered the same thing. The pencil test thread is great.

[Bigslug]

A must? Probably not, but I wouldn't want to be without one.

Loading ammo involves a lot of variables. Loading GOOD ammo involves controlling those variables. Between the wheel weights, range scrap, reclaimed shot, X-ray shielding, boat keels, organ pipes, antique plumbing, solder, lamp bases, dive weights, and fishing sinkers that we try to scrounge, it is easy to find yourself asking "whadahellisthistuff???" A hardness tester is one of those gizmos with the potential to pay for itself in terms of time NOT spent sorting that out.

[220swiftfn]

To answer a question with a question - how many buffalo hunters had hardness testers?

To ask a question of your answering question (I thunk I got that a'right.....)
How many buffalo hunters had linotype, or wheel weights, or babbit, or.............. They had lead, good, soft lead (maybe a pinch of tin)...... Not too much figurin' to do there......:kidding:

To the OP, there are plenty of casters that don't have a tester, and don't see any reason to get one either. The FIT is more important than the hardness, but if you are curious, there's no reason to NOT get a tester either, just don't get too wrapped up in the minutae.... Besides, a tester can be as simple as a ball bearing, a vise, an unknown ingot, and a pure lead ingot.


Dan

[220swiftfn]

Agree wotj BTroj. Nice to have for an experianced caster who has everything else, but about as necessary to an inexperianced caster as hemoriods.
1Shirt!

But they do keep you from sitting down on the job.......


Dan

[s1120]

I use the pencil test: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?75455-Testing-hardness-with-pencils
I have a lot of mystery lead, but at least the pencils let me segregate ingots by hardness.

I read that thread the other day. What a great thread! Im also a newbee.. well a pre newbee.. But I have a lot of lead that my dad smelted years ago. Not knowing what it was smelted from, that pencil test will give me a way to pick the harder alloys from the softer.

[wingnut49b]

Fit is the most important, and some calibers are easier naturally. My 45 ACP 1911 just doesn't give me problems. Even still, I wouldn't get one to start.

When I could find wheel weights, I didn't worry about it. Now that I'm working on rifles and using range scrap, I bought a Cabine-Tree tester.

Just get started the easy way. Buy good equipment, but don't buy more pieces than you absolutely need.

You'll have it all in the end if you like casting. Ever see a guy on a board like this that didn't hoard when they could??

[cbrick]

Is a hardness tester a must?

This has been answered pretty well already but the short answer is no, not a must. You can get hung up on too many little details as a new caster. Follow the advice given here on alloys and start shooting. As you gain more experience and a wider variety of differing alloys it can be a very handy tool to keep a known good shooting load shooting well or help solve a problem should a problem develop. My advice to a new caster would be to buy a new mold before a BHN tester, it'll give you a new boolit style to experiment with and that will teach you more.

Rick

[WILCO]

How important is a hardness tester? Should it be on my buy list before I send one of my projectiles down range??

I started without one. Shooting without one is like feeling around in the dark. Get one as you progress.

[arkypete]

In answer to your question. No!

Jim

[Bullshop]

Sorry I gave a bad answer. Maybe I should have said I got by just fine for my first 20 years or so of casting without one. At that time I never felt the need to duplicate any certain hardness. If I came into some alloy I would cast it and use it. I would work up a load with a new alloy just as if it was a new cartridge or different boolit. After all its about shooting so shoot I did.
When I started selling boolits is when I felt the need to have a hardness tester because customers expect a consistency of weight and hardness and as a custom casting service I offer a hardness range a customer can choose from. For that I needed one. If not for that I could still get along just fine without one. I guess it is going to depend much on what you want and expect from your casting.
If you want to exactly duplicate an alloy and use only that you might be better served by buying your alloy from a supplier like Roto metals a sponcer here. A hardness tester may help you with hardness but maybe not weight. Alloying from scrap may leave something to be desired. If you just want to shoot maybe you really dont need one any more than those buffalo hunters I first mentioned needed one or any more than I needed one for 20 years.
Sooooooo do you need one ? I think no. Should you get one ? I think yes because it will teach you things but that is a totally different question.

[Larry Gibson]

Sooooooo do you need one ? I think no. Should you get one ? I think yes because it will teach you things but that is a totally different question.

I concur.

Larry Gibson

[cajun shooter]

Just remember Bullshop that those Buffalo hunters were shooting straight BP and that not one ingot of Lyman #2 or Linotype could be found on the Praire. They even dug out the old slug if available.
Now to answer your question. In reloading every time you purchase a good piece of equipment, Your loads and your accuracy usually improve.
You may purchase a stripped down auto and it will go from point A to Z without a problem. The same car that has AC, leather, GPS and so is a much more enjoyable ride and may help you from taking a wrong turn.
I started casting in 1970 and like most casters of that time who lived in the city we used WW's or lead alloy from the local gun store. In todays world they have at least 40 persons selling lead on the forum at any one time and the WW's are made of all kinds of things. It's a different world.
If you are starting with just handgun loading and taht is all then you may get by with the fingernail test.
The Cabin Tree tester in the Premium form does many things besides giving you very accurate BHN readings. You may test bullet run out, case neck thickness, case mouths and most important, bullet run out on the loaded round which will make a ton of difference down range.
Crawl before you walk but do learn to walk. Later David

[cajun shooter]

Just remember Bullshop that those Buffalo hunters were shooting straight BP and that not one ingot of Lyman #2 or Linotype could be found on the Praire. They even dug out the old slug if available.
Now to answer your question. In reloading every time you purchase a good piece of equipment, Your loads and your accuracy usually improve.
You may purchase a stripped down auto and it will go from point A to Z without a problem. The same car that has AC, leather, GPS and so is a much more enjoyable ride and may help you from taking a wrong turn.
I started casting in 1970 and like most casters of that time who lived in the city we used WW's or lead alloy from the local gun store. In todays world they have at least 40 persons selling lead on the forum at any one time and the WW's are made of all kinds of things. It's a different world.
If you are starting with just handgun loading and that is all then you may get by with the fingernail test.
The Cabin Tree tester in the Premium form does many things besides giving you very accurate BHN readings. You may test bullet run out, case neck thickness, case mouths and most important, bullet run out on the loaded round which will make a ton of difference down range.
Crawl before you walk but do learn to walk. Later David

[Bullshop]

David
You must be shooting that 45 alot lately practicing your double tap.
I second the Cabin Tree tester. if your going to get one that is the one you should get. After using it for a year or so I got rid of all others I had.

[bobthenailer]

Get one after you have bought everything else you need for casting , they are helpful but you dont use them that often maybe a few time a year . I got one from LBT when he first offered them over 20+ years ago.

[lightman]

I would also have to answer, no. I've cast a long time without one. I do plan to get on, though. My answer to doing without one was to smelt large batches at a time, for me thats 350# or so and keep it together. Lightman

PS, for you guys that have one. What do you have and how do you like it?

[badgeredd]

To the OP, there are plenty of casters that don't have a tester, and don't see any reason to get one either. The FIT is more important than the hardness, but if you are curious, there's no reason to NOT get a tester either, just don't get too wrapped up in the minutae.... Besides, a tester can be as simple as a ball bearing, a vise, an unknown ingot, and a pure lead ingot.


Dan

Ya nailed it!

[Case Stuffer]

PS, for you guys that have one. What do you have and how do you like it?

I have a SAECO which I purchased back in around 1979 . Seems like it was around $60 but I had a sideline ammo and bullet business and really needed to keep casting alloy consistant. I really like it but honestly it is all that I have ever used other that a very expensive Rockwell hardness tester that I used when I was a Tool & Die Maker.

[alamogunr]

I've got both the Cabine Tree and LBT hardness testers. As I told someone as I ordered another shooting accessory, I like gadgets. Do I always get the same answer from both these testers? NO! Do I worry about that? NO! Do I need 2 testers? NO! I don't even need one. It is nice to be able to check hardness when I put together COWW, soft lead, various enrichment metals, etc. My thermometer is much more useful.

[Floydster]

I have been using my fingernail for the last 55 years, works for me.

Smokeyloads

[Mal Paso]

Yes, a hardness tester is a must. You don't have enough guns either!















In case you were really looking for approval to get the purchase past SWMBO. Just scroll this part off the screen. This is an enabling site. :)

[Shiloh]

If I ever come across one, I'd probably pick it up. I do pretty good with out it.

Shiloh

[josper]

Wellll I think its a nice to have tool. I like to have some idea of my boolits hardness . I do tend to like softer boolits as I think they are better on deer type game.

[John Boy]

NO. It is SOMETIMES useful, and people worry about BHN a LOT more than is necessary.
Bill, the majority of the casters on CB don't:
1. Shoot black powder
2. Shoot 500m silhouettes, mid range to 600yds and long range to 1000yds
3. Shoot paper patched bullets
4. Shoot heavy bullets in the 400 to 550gr weight range
At these ranges and bullet weight, the bullet obturation and slump are important factors, necessitating that they know which alloy works best for a given caliber, powder charge and rifle.
I don't know any serious BPCR shooters that are aiming at centers at 500m - 600 and 1000 yd that don't know the alloy of their bullets using a hardness tester or purchasing a specific alloy. It can range from 1:11 - 1:14 - 1:10 - 1:15 - 1:20 - 1:30 and for 'hard ball' 2-1-97% alloys
Accordingly, for BPCR shooters that mix their alloys, a hardness tester is a key tool for casting.

As for me, I have over 1700 lbs of pure lead and specific alloys sitting on the basement floor and every ingot batch has been tested and marked with it's Bhn.

And BTW, I have never heard of a ML shooter using wheel weights instead of of pure lead or 1:10 long range

[MtGun44]

Huh?
What does any of that have to do with what I said?

I stand by the comment. Most folks will use wwts and never sweat hardness testing. Fun if you want to
experiment, and if you are out there doing advanced target competition, sure - you start chasing all
the variables. Most folks are just having fun and until they start getting pretty serious into the hobby,
hardness is mostly a secondary variable.

I didn't say or imply anything whatsoever about ML shooting or long range BP or any of that stuff.

Bill

[btroj]

The question was "is it a must". No, not a must. Many, many people cast and shoot just fine without one.
How many millions of commercially cast bullets are shot annually that are never tested?
I shot cast for 30 years before I got a tester. I shot muzzleloaders extensively for many years, never knew a person who tested their lead.

Does it tell you something you didn't know before? Yes. So does a chronograph yet those are a "must" either.

Want to become a better caster? Don't buy equipment, learn to use a pot, mould, and firearm.

[Springfield]

I have an LBT tester, and it helped me reinforce my seat of the pants testing. After a while you can pretty much tell soft(5) from WW(11) from hardcast(18) without anything. To get a little closer than that a tester really helps. Sometimes I get some alloy that I think is pure but tests closer to 7-8, so I know it has something else in it. Not a big deal usually but for C&B balls I really need some 5 Brinell lead. It is like what Festus on Gunsmoke said one time about knowing how to read. He said he never knew how so he doesn't miss it and gets by OK, but feels if he knew how life would sure be easier sometimes.

[prs]

I cast without one for 35 years and purchased one last fall. Used it twice, wonder where I put that useless ***?

prs

[detox]

All of my lead is softer than a #2 pencil. The few comercial cast bullets that i own are harder than #2 pencil and caused bad leading in my Ruger Blackhawk. Problem solved using my softer lead and casting slightly oversized bullet.

[TES]

I did not read all of this but the question with a question response was funny....another question is how many experienced casters do not have / use a hardness tester?

The most important question that should have been asked....if you bought one....why did you buy it?

[btroj]

I got mine as a gift. I like it because it lets me have a more precise idea of hardness, something beyond soft, hard, and in between.
Biggest thing I learned is that my alloy is,in general, harder than I thought.
It did NOT change how I shoot or what I shoot. It just told me more about what I shoot.