Why would he have sand??

[Dave Bulla]

Hi guys,

I'm in the process of helping a coworker sort through a bunch of reloading supplies he got from his Grandfathers estate. Much of it is vintage stuff and some of it has me stumped. To give you an idea, there are numerous old hand crank roll crimpers for shotgun shells, heated paper hull reconditioners, quite a few used paper hulls, antique presses of various make, lots and lots of primers, bullets and powders, vintage ammo and ammo boxes etc. There are even several boxes of what appear to be primers for shotgun that don't have the outer cup. That is, I assume you knock the small primer out of the outer cup and replace it? Nearly all of the primer boxes have the wood trays instead of the plastic kind.

Along with the bags of shot there are several old shot bags and a leg from a pair of blue jeans that have been refilled with what looks like ordinary sand. I just can't figure out what that would be for. Would it be harsh tumbling media? The guy left notes to himself in many of the boxes stating date of purchase, ammount and a brief description of the item in some cases but then there's these bags of sand and I can't figure out why. I'm having a blast going through this stuff and I'm learning a lot as I go.

Any ideas on the sand from some of the old timers out there? I'm just plain curious.

[Bill In SC]

Dave -

Probably shooting bags for the bench or hood of the car.

I have 5 or 6 old shot bags filled with sand. Blue Jean legs work too. :)

Bill

[Dave Bulla]

Thwack!

(Sound of hand smacking on forehead!)

My gosh I feel really stupid right now! DUH!

I guess I've spent so much of my life shooting without sand bags and just wishing I had some that it never occurred to me that someone else would have some.

Again, feeling REALLY, REALLY dumb right now... :coffee:

[Finster101]

Again, feeling REALLY, REALLY dumb right now...



Don't. Sometimes we look so hard for a solution that we just can't believe is that simple. But simple it is. And old tech still works, a couple of sand bags take up a lot less room in the trunk than a lead sled. Have fun!

[shooter93]

Also works as a "cheater" bag behind the heavy kickers.

[williamwaco]

I used to make them that way too.

Now I am too lazy. I just buy them.

[.22-10-45]

I have a couple I made from jeans back when I started in the early 1970's..I now use Protector models..but the old ones are still used for revolver testing..don't mind the black burn marks!

[ReloaderFred]

Way back when, shotgun primers could be reloaded. You punched out the old inside of the primer, kept the anvil, and replaced the old primer cup with a new one. The old anvil was reused. I gave some of those to Bret Olin, of Speer, several years ago. He had heard of them, but had never seen them in his 30+ years with the company. Speer put the ones I gave them in their display in the lobby of their headquarters in Lewiston, ID.

Those primers are really rare these days, so don't throw them away. If you make contact with the manufacturer, they may also want them for their display, since most of them were used up many, many years ago.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Dave Bulla]

Way back when, shotgun primers could be reloaded. You punched out the old inside of the primer, kept the anvil, and replaced the old primer cup with a new one. The old anvil was reused. I gave some of those to Bret Olin, of Speer, several years ago. He had heard of them, but had never seen them in his 30+ years with the company. Speer put the ones I gave them in their display in the lobby of their headquarters in Lewiston, ID.

Those primers are really rare these days, so don't throw them away. If you make contact with the manufacturer, they may also want them for their display, since most of them were used up many, many years ago.

Hope this helps.

Fred

That's interesting Fred. I'll have to look at them again next time I go over there to make sure and to check the brand.

[USMC87]

We used the bluejean sandbags also and still do at times.

[fatnhappy]

I have half a dozen downstairs

[camaro1st]

dave if you get a chance perhaps a picture of the primers? would really like to see one

[429421Cowboy]

I too would love to see pic's, i have read about battery cup shotgun primers but never seen them.

Something about the leg of a pair of denim jeans that makes for a perfect sandbag!

[ReloaderFred]

They will look very similar to rifle primers, but without the anvil, sort of like a cap for a cap & Ball revolver. The box will be labeled "for reloading shotgun primers", or something similar. I probably should have taken a picture of the box I had before I gave them to Speer for their display.

The other day I bought some stuff from a "going out of life sale", and there is an old box of Herter's primers in amongst the rest of the stuff. It's labeled "Made in Japan", which is a first for me. You never know what you're going to find.....

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Dale53]

During the Korean war the major manufacturers shut off everyone except the government from components. Speer created CCI to make primers to meet the shortage. They sold filled primer cups (with priming compound). There were tools that were just long enough to expel the shotshell primer cups. You then reseated the anvil and installed the new cup. They worked too. My father was a trap shooter and enlisted me to load for him. I loaded thousands of these before the shortage was over.

FWIW
Dale53

[r1kk1]

I remember battery cups were separate from primers in 209s.

Take care

r1kk1

[hornetman]

I have a thousand of the CCI primers, and the tool to reload the cups. The tool looks like a small arbor press. I'll try to find them and make a picture.

[Dave Bulla]

Well, since my original question was answered so quickly... I suppose it's perfectly fine for me to go off topic and show a couple pic's of the primers you all asked about.

Here's a pic of some of the primers he gave me so far. Just so happens that the shotgun refills are in with them. The yellow Winchester carton has 3 full trays and one partial. The tan Winchester tray has about 28 primers and a hand written note "do not use". The Remington / Kleanbore tray is unopened and the paper is intact. Lastly, the CCI tray is a partial with 21 caps in it.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/oldprimers001_zps81704529.jpg

Winchester trays. Any idea of how old any of these are?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/oldprimers004_zps631f424f.jpg

CCI tray open.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/oldprimers003_zpsbab6a868.jpg

Close up of cap. Note the absence of any "guts" in the primer. You can see the priming compound but there is no anvil.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/oldprimers005_zps5dcc778e.jpg

They look pretty much like a rifle or pistol primer from the outside. I have not measured one to check height or width.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/oldprimers006_zps67c9c44c.jpg

Lastly, a close up of the Remington tray. Note the price hand written on the label. Been a while since they've sold for that little!
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/oldprimers009_zps389dba06.jpg

[camaro1st]

thanks for the pics

[fryboy]

i have several boxes of the unbleached boxed staynless winchester rifle primers ( wood tray inside ) i use a few now and then and they go bang just fine , lord only knows how or where they were stored before they came into my possession 20+ years ago

let's see if i remember correctly , remington #57's were the odd size shotgun shell primers ? the ones that long ago when alcan used to make brass shotgun shells fit ?

indeed great fotos thank you !

[FLHTC]

During the Korean war the major manufacturers shut off everyone except the government from components. Speer created CCI to make primers to meet the shortage. They sold filled primer cups (with priming compound). There were tools that were just long enough to expel the shotshell primer cups. You then reseated the anvil and installed the new cup. They worked too. My father was a trap shooter and enlisted me to load for him. I loaded thousands of these before the shortage was over.

FWIW
Dale53

I didn't think Vernon Speer made anything but bullets back during the Korean war and i thought CCI was owned by the same company that owns RCBS, Blout?

[FLHTC]

Maybe the shotshell caps are for muzzle loading shotguns? Outside hammer side by side's or brass shotshells? I have all those boxes including some federal boxes. They're all from the late 50's to early 60's.

[Dale53]

FLHTC;
My information is correct:
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/general/history.aspx

Truth is, "I was there" (actually loaded and used those CCI items when the Speer Brothers saved the day with their primers) and have a better memory of those days than I do of yesterday:roll:

Dale53

[ReloaderFred]

FLHTC,

Blount hasn't owned any of the companies for quite a few years. They sold their holdings to Alliant Technologies (ATK), and they now own CCI/Speer, Federal, RCBS, et. al. The caps are for repriming shotgun shells, and only resemble caps for cap and ball firearms. They're a different size, and different priming compound. They are what they say they are, priming cups for recharging shotgun primers.

Like I said earlier, I gave mine to Bret Olin, who recently retired from CCI, and he put them in the display in the lobby of the CCI offices in Lewiston, ID.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[4719dave]

Hell getting old lol ...........That was a good one, i finally knew what something was... haha

[FLHTC]

FLHTC;
My information is correct:
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/general/history.aspx

Truth is, "I was there" (actually loaded and used those CCI items when the Speer Brothers saved the day with their primers) and have a better memory of those days than I do of yesterday:roll:

Dale53

Yeah, i thought we might have been talking about different family members. I bought out a gunshop back in the 1990's and wound up with tons of old boxes of bullets made by Vernon Speer. I sold them on ebay back when you could and had the fiancee of Vernon's grandson as one of my bidders. I assumed you were talking about Vernon, who only made bullets. She and i wrote back and fourth about the history of Vernon's success in the bullet making business.

[sparkz]

Kewl Stuff..... and a blast from the past, Dad had some boxes like those back in the 60's I was just a boy then but i do recall those boxes,, I am gona steal a few pics and maybe use them for a avatar.. lol very cool stuff, if you can keep photos coming,


Sparkz
(Now I do feel old)