More 30-30 stuff...

[RBak]

I wasn't quite sure where to put this but, since it is a "single-shot".......

I have an "older" Savage mdl. 24V with 30-30 / 20ga barrels and I'm interested in shooting cast boolits in this thing for small game, pests, and just because.

I will be getting a mould from my good friend Crazy Mark down Oregon way...a 311357 IIRC, anyway it's the little 115gr RN GC.

I have never fired cast in this rifle, and I have no idea what to expect.
I was thinking, actually hoping, that someone else has, and could give me a few pointers.

The gun shoots great with 150gr Nosler Ballistic tips out to 125yds, but I have never had it on paper past that range.
I have also killed a few rocks out at about 200/225 yds. but they were pretty good size rocks too.
It does kinda "okay" with the 170gr RN out to that same range, but with the 150gr BTip it really shines, if ya know what I mean.

To give you an idea on how old this thing is....How many of you remember this old scope from Bushnell?
It has 3 different style reticles, one is a fine cross-hair, one is a heavy cross-hair, and one is the heavy European post w/fine horizontial cross-hairs....Got the gun and scope at the Rod & Gun Club in Hanau Germany sometime in the late 60's or early 70's....and that scope is still nice and clear, and works like the day I got it.

My child bride has taken a truck load of deer with this old gun over the years, and she has never failed to complain about how heavy it is.
I got her a mdl 94 and it gave her a black eye. I got her a new H&R Handi, and she complained it kicked her brains out...what's a feller to do?:???:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v143/RussB256/?action=view&current=IM000484.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v143/RussB256/?action=view&current=IM000485.jpg

Any suggestions on what to load, as far as the 115gr cast boolit?....or any other cast weight, for that mater.

Russ...

[Char-Gar]

Russ... When you say you have never shot cast and ask for a few pointers, you are asking a very general question that would require a book to be written as an answer. We are in luck however as the book has been written. Buy the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and that will get you started.

Once you get into the swing of things, come back with some specific questions and we will be glad to answer.

I don't want you to get the idea that folks here won't help you, but you need to ask questions that can be answered within he format of an Internet Board.

[RBak]

Ooops! Sorry Charger.

I have been casting for many years. and I'm sure what I meant to say was I have never shot a cast load in 30-30 cal......plus I have never tried a cast boolit in any cal.that was designed to be shot in another case.
(This particular little 115gr boolit mold that I came into posession of was orignally designed to be shot in the .30 cal. carbine case, or so my reading tells me.)

I currently load, and shoot, about a dozen or so different cast loads...just never tried the trusted "ol' thuty-thuty" before....for whatever reason.

For the most part, As a rule, this little Savage 24V I have in 30-30 is somewhat noted for being inaccurate with about any and all loads you try in it.
However, this particular one has proven, over the years, to be the exception to that rule, and I'm quite sure that accounts for at least part of it's longevity.....I've just never shot cast boolits in it.

Sorry for the confussion!

You're absolutely right in saying it would take more than just an Internet Forum to give one all the ends and outs of casting....I have been a member of this forum since about 1999, IIRC,......... more of a lurker if you will, but I do sit in the front row and I take pretty good notes.
And, I learn something just about every time I log on here....I still feel it is the best place to get a good, knowledgeable answer, now if I could ever learn to just ask the question properly....:???:

Russ...

[grumpy one]

Since you will be using a gas check, I suggest you start off by slugging the bore to get a diameter, and try 17 grains of SR4759 behind your 115 grain cast bullet. That should be a bit on the light side, for safety, and should serve as a starting point - it is within the optimum range for a 175 grain gas check bullet. You could try the same weight of 4227 instead, but for me the 4227 gives much more variation in group size. I suggest you stay away from any kind of filler.

You are going to end up with a muzzle velocity of over 1700 fps, so use a rifle lube - say 50/50 beeswax/alox, or one of the lubes you'll see recommended on this site. Don't try to use a pistol lube.

[versifier]

Russ,
My 24V was (until my brother got ahold of it - haven't seen it since[smilie=1: ) a stellar performer with Lee soupcans. Its preferred load was/is 29.5gr RE-7 with an OAL of 2.348 at a MV of around 2700fps. I used LLA and sized at .308, but you'll have to slug to find your optimun size. FWIW, it is the most accurate .30cal barrel I have ever owned, and I have never found a single bullet/boolit between 110 and 150gr that wouldn't perform in it. I never bothered to test anything heavier as I did not have the moulds until after the rifle took up residence elsewhere. It was great for dealing with various problems on the farm from woodchucks and coons in the garden to coyotes and domestic dogs in the livestock. Partridges and deer didn't stand a chance, either. Someday it might return home......:(

[RBak]

Grumpy....good information. I will try that load for sure, as I do believe I have a can of SR4759 in the locker.
As far as lube, I have used FWFL with good success, and that is what I have in the sizer right now.
I have never been a fan of "fillers", most likely because of my lack of knowledge and understanding of their proper use.
The velocity of 1700 and a little bit is about what I had in mind for this boolit, if it will shoot in my rifle at all.

Versifier....You just made a statement about your 24V that is indeed rare... It may well be that you and I are the only two who has ever had a kind word about the 24V with thier so-called "wimpy barrels"....my own rifle never seemed to have a problem either....... with any jacketed bullet I ever tried in it.

Good luck on getting that gun back!

Thank you both for the information, it is appreciated.

Respectfully, Russ...

[grumpy one]

Russ, Versifier was talking about a full-tilt cast bullet load, not a jacketed load - the Lee soupcan is a cast bullet with a good reputation on this site. The load I suggested was a very mild one, deliberately at the bottom of the workable range as a starting point - you can almost certainly go higher than that provided you work up to it one step at a time. Versifier's is obviously a real screamer, but if he said it works for him - with his bullet, not your bullet - I have no doubt that it does. So far as lube is concerned, FWFL has an excellent reputation on this site, so if you have it, use it by all means. From reports it is probably better than the 50/50 beeswax/alox I use.

[Doughty]

RussB,

I used to use a 24V like yours; a lot. My son has it now. I did a few things to mine. First was to get the trigger pull down to about 4lbs. When I got it, I estimate the trigger pull was 15-20 lbs. Next was a Williams receiver sight, used mostly without the insert. Then I "free floated" the rifle barrel. Ground out the front barrel band so that it clamped on the shotgun barrel, but was loose on the rifle barrel. Finally, used as large a diameter bullet as I could easily chamber. Best was a .312. I used the little 117 grain bullet and about 8 grains of Unique; a lot, for small game. However, my neighbor borrowed it one day and killed a little buck with it.

As time went by, I realized that I did not like to eat things that had been killed by shot, so why carry around an unused shotgun barrel. My son did not have the same concerns, so he took the gun one day and has not brought it back.

Back when I used it, I wore the finish off the receiver, so had it re-finished with a brushed hard chrome. For an ugly gun it looks kinda pretty.

[RBak]

Good Morning Vic!
When you say, "I used the little 117 grain bullet and about 8 grains of Unique; a lot, for small game"......I found that very interesting because, before I asked for any recommended loads, I had somewhat envisioned starting with about 9 or so grains of Unique.....just "winging it", you might say.

(It appears to me that Unique powder is indeed unique in cast bullet loads of just about any caliber,)

Does anyone have any heart-aches over the fact that this mould throws a particular bullet that was originally designed for the 30 cal carbine, and not the 30-30?????

Of course the Lyman cast bullet book, and Ken Waters "Pet Loads", along with several others, all have cast bullet loads for the 30-30 in similar weights.

Still yet, I am of the opinion that one should ask a few questions, in the interest of safety, before jumping into unknown waters.

Respectfully, Russ...

[MT Gianni]

Does anyone have any heart-aches over the fact that this mould throws a particular bullet that was originally designed for the 30 cal carbine, and not the 30-30?????


Respectfully, Russ...

The dangers would be with a pointed bullet and a tubular magazine, not with a break -top. Go for it. Gianni.

[Doughty]

What Gianni said. Go for it.

[versifier]

Yes, it is a very hot load for cast, but it worked (and works) very well out of the rifle with no leading. At the time, I had no idea that you couldn't push them that fast in most rifles, and that LLA could give less than stellar results at high velocities. 10 shot groups ran MOA at 100yds, when I could still see a 100yd target clearly. (Trying the load in a Win94 later produced outrageous leading.) According to my records, I used an alloy mix of 2/3lino 1/3pure, so it was pretty hard. I never recovered a boolit to see how well it expanded, but it poleaxed a dog well over 100lbs at about 150yds that got into my sheep and left an exit wound about 3" in diameter. Two deer were taken with it at close range before I got a 150gr mould.

Like Old Vic, I put a Williams sight on mine, too, but that is the only change I made. I think everyone should put one on any hunting rifle. The inserts I only use for sighting in.

Today, knowing what I now know (and have largely learned from this board), I would start by using wheel weights, a larger sizer, and more conservative loads, but my experiments in the dark ages produced one of the more accurate cast loads I have ever managed by pure dumb luck. Much of it was, I am certain, the excellent and accurate barrel. I have never heard of or seen a m24 that would not shoot exceptionally well, even compared to bolt actions.

[Doughty]

You guys are bringing back some old memories. Talk about child brides. When my child bride married me and moved up to the mountains, she was deathly afraid of snakes. In her mind, giving them almost supernatural powers. I told her that after she had killed a few she wouldn't be so afraid.

I taught her how to handle the Mod 24 right away and she became quite familar with both barrels. Now one thing that 20 gauge barrel is good for is shooting snakes.

Well, one day I was out moving some lumber and discovered two "practice snakes" under a board. I yelled to her to get "the gun" and come to me. She showed up with the Mod. 24 and upon seeing the snakes goes, "EEEK!" I told her to put the selector lever on the shotgun barrel, aim the gun at the snake, and shoot. Immediately there is a loud "bam" and one snake comes apart and is blown away. Now she says, "Wow!" I then say, "Now the other one." meaning, put another shot shell in the gun and shoot the second snake.

Immediately there is a light "pow" and the second snake's head turns to mush. She had just flipped the selector lever and shot the second one with one of those little lead .30-30 bullets. She never has learned to like snakes but she definately gave them a new place in the pecking order.

She later moved on to a Marlin 336 in .30-30 as her "go to" gun, liking the repeatability of more shots for things other than hunting, such as social situations.
Since we've moved into town, a rifle doesn't hang over the back door anymore, but her .30-30 is never far away.

[RBak]

A couple of you have mentioned using a peep sight on your 24V.

Yeah! I like that idea!
I think that may stop the complaints of "to darn heavy" from SWMBO, and I would like nothing better for myself when I use the gun, but.....I have never seen one available.

Anybody got any information on a Make, Model, etc, etc, Other than NECG for their Weaver style base.:???:

I "think" I would prefer a Williams Guide, but I didn't see anything at Brownells, or Midway. Still yet, if you guys have them, they still may be available from someone.

(I havent called anybody either. I guess I was hoping someone may know something...right off the top of their head, if you know what I mean.)

BTW: Thanks for all the good information. I feel quite confident this little boolit is going to become a rat killer, numero uno.

Respectfully, Russ...

[Lucky Joe]

Russ B.,

I'm sending you an email including an article from the 1990 Bullet Making Annual titled Special Loads For The .30-30. I don't know how easy it will be to read hopefully you can get some information out of it for loading the .30-30. Do me a favor and let me know if it comes through. Looks like I need you email address.

[versifier]

Williams 5D-22/410, Brownells stock #962-150-224AA

[RBak]

Russ B.,

I'm sending you an email including an article from the 1990 Bullet Making Annual titled Special Loads For The .30-30. I don't know how easy it will be to read hopefully you can get some information out of it for loading the .30-30. Do me a favor and let me know if it comes through. Looks like I need you email address.


Thank you Sir,
My eMail address is NWTradeRifle@msn.com....I no longer have a web site, but I have kept the same ol' eMail address.

Thank you a bunch!

Respectfully, Russ...

[RBak]

Williams 5D-22/410, Brownells stock #962-150-224AA

Versifier, As the young folks say, "You be da Man"! :drinks:

Now, Why in the heck couldn't I find that? :???:

I think this is going to be the ticket.
Although that ancient old scope on the gun has served the wife well, IMHO, shooting an occasional Quail with a scope mounted is not all it was cracked up to be...at least to me.

I suspect that over the years the wife has taken, probably 10, maybe 15% of the birds she has shot at with that scope being mounted.
Without going into details, I would say that my own score may have been a bit better, but if it is, it's not by much.....and you can take that to the bank!

Thank you a whole bunch..........Thank all you guys, this is just great!

When I get it, I will have to show you guys a picture.......of the gun, not the birds. [smilie=1:

Respectfully, Russ...

[versifier]

You couldn't find it because it is listed under "Stevens".
Savage/Stevens, if my rememberer is still working, made the original ones before they were called m24's, a .22s,l,&lr over a .410 shotgun. The last time I looked them up, 2yrs maybe, they were under "Savage, m24", but I had to think a minute how else to find one, because I knew that they were still being made.
The drill & tap is simple, you need a centering punch, a drill press with depth stop, vice, and also a bottoming tap to finish the shallow holes.