Newbie looking for advice on lead/tin/antimony%

[victor3ranger]

I will be shooting a 45acp (1911) and several different 9mm's.
What I would like to know from the brains of the casting forum is:
Is Hard lead better to reduce lead fouling?
If so, what is a good mix between lead/tin/antimony?
Is it better to cool boolits in water or let air cool??

I am very new to all this so any advice would be helpful.

[Ole]

Slug your barrels first.

Once you know what size your barrel is, you'll usually do best making bullets that are .001" over the size of your grooves.

Fit is about 80% of the game. Bullet alloy and lube makes up the other 20%.

I'd say with pistol ammo it's more like 90% fit and 10% alloy and lube.

I use 50% wheel weights and 50% pure lead add around 1% tin and water drop the bullets into a bucket for 90% of my casting. Runs around 16BHN or so the last time I tested it.

[turmech]

The 1911 should not be picky. Size to .452 or as cast if it is 452 or a little larger. Water dropped won't hurt but not needed. Most alloys will work other than pure should be fine. I have used straight WW and 50/50 (WW/pure}. Add enough tin as needed for mold fill out. I add ½ ounce of 50/50 soldier per pound of alloy.

I have no experience with 9 mm. I will let others comment.

[cs86]

Would it be best to find some tin here if possible or are there other places that sell it for reasonable prices? I'd like to have some on hand for my WW but its so expensive.

[DrCaveman]

Cs86

I've scored a lot of solder from garage sales, good source of tin generally. Often the seller may make you buy the whole box of stuff including broken soldering guns/irons but if you can get 5 pounds or so of 50/50 solder (lead/tin) then you will be set fora while and shouldn't cost you more than $5 or so. Even $10 would prob be worth it, you aren't kidding about tin being expensive.

Lots of it sitting unused in old fellers garages though, and spools make it easy to add small, controlled amounts.

[cs86]

I've scored a lot of solder from garage sales

Thats a good idea. Maybe thats what I will be doing this coming spring....hitting lots of garage sales.

I haven't bought a smelting pot yet but I have lots of wheel weights refined and ready for bullets. It sounds as though people add about a pound of tin to 20 or 30lbs of WW lead. If I have 200lbs+ of WW lead that means I need about 10 lbs of tin. that adds up if I need the tin, but I'm going to try without the tin first and see how it shoots.

[MtGun44]

"Is hard lead better to reduce fouling?" If you mean leading, the answer is generally,
No. This is an old wive's tale. Some will tell you that you need to cast from linotype
(very hard) for pistols, this is just baloney and waste of an expensive alloy. Rifle shooters
that shoot at very high velocities may need this hardness - no personal experience beyond
the 1800-1900 fps range where air cooled wwts works fine.

Clip-on wheel wt alloy is just about perfect for boolits of any persuasion up to about
1900+ fps, IME. Air cooled is just fine, no need at all for the hardening effect from water
quenching.

Fit is critical, design is important, lube is very important, hardness is way down the list,
maybe even irrelevant, IME. .45 ACP is pretty easy, use a H&G 68 clone with
a good soft lube like NRA 50-50 or LBT soft blue and .452 diameter for most guns
you will be good to go.

This may help for the 9mm, which is much more problematic as a cartridge, and the bore
sizes are literally all over the map.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121737-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm

Bill

[runfiverun]

1 pound of tin is generally enough for 100 pounds of ww alloy.
my wife likes to use 2 lbs,but she isn't paying for it.

[victor3ranger]

Wow, lots of good information, thanks guys.
I have a LOT to learn before I pour my first boolits.

[cbrick]

Best info I can offer is to re-read post #7. Very wise words spoken from experience.

The term hard cast is from commercial boolit casters that cast hard so their bullets withstand the rigor of shipping and has nothing to do with what is best for the guy shooting those bulleets. Too hard is the cause of more inaccuracy and leading problems than any other.

The 45 ACP is really easy to cast & load for, I shoot anything from 8 BHN HP's to 12 BHN air cooled clip-on WW with good accuracy and zero leading. Just make it fit your firearm & you'll be a happy camper. Fit is King, no need what-so-ever to shoot diamonds.

Rick

[William Yanda]

[QUOTE=

If I have 200lbs+ of WW lead that means I need about 10 lbs of tin. that adds up .....[/QUOTE]

If you are hitting garage sales for solder as a tin source, don't forget thrift ships and pewter. Pewter is usually close to 90% tin. I suspect if you are careful you could find enough mugs, vases, sugar/creamers and other objects clearly marked pewter to make the $10 plus market price for tin look sick. Lots of info on pewter here. I will repeat the common warnings: Avoid Wilton pewterex-its mostly Aluminum. Weighted candlesticks are plaster with a thin veneer of pewter. If you figure 3 oz for a creamer, 6-8 oz for a glass bottom mug, etc., knowing the price for Sn from Rotometals or other suppliers, you can calculate what you can afford to pay. Of course it you find such items for $.10, .25 or .50 each-grab them. I once found a 3 lb platter, about 14 inches across for $8-clearly marked Danish pewter. You bet I grabbed it.
Luck to you, the search is one more dimension of the fun
Bill

[243winxb]

Air cool. Wheel Weights for 45acp target loads 9BHN. Maximum 45acp 12 to 15 BHN. For 9mm max. 15 to 22BHN. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Firearms%20%20and%20%20Reloading/AlloyBlending1.jpg

[45-70 Chevroner]

Thats a good idea. Maybe thats what I will be doing this coming spring....hitting lots of garage sales.

I haven't bought a smelting pot yet but I have lots of wheel weights refined and ready for bullets. It sounds as though people add about a pound of tin to 20 or 30lbs of WW lead. If I have 200lbs+ of WW lead that means I need about 10 lbs of tin. that adds up if I need the tin, but I'm going to try without the tin first and see how it shoots.

I cast for years with nothing but WW's and they shot just fine. When I discovered tin it just made things a lot easier. I use very little tin in my mix. One once of tin in a ten pound pot has worked great for me. Maybe I'm just cheap but I have tried more tin and it doesn't seem to do any more for me than one once does. I do know that temperature is King. You should invest in a thermometer though. I do most of my casting at around 800*. Everyone has thier own ideas about that, but it works for me.

[victor3ranger]

Ok, so for a true beginner like me that dosen't know how to mix the lead/tin/? yet I would like to bounch this off you guys.

I want to focus on just doing 45acp 230g RN first for my 1911. What is the best mold for this?

At Rotometals they have the bars they are selling.

90% lead, 5% tin, 5% antimony BHN15
92% lead, 2% tin, 6% antimony BHN16

Which one of these two would you go with??

In the meanwhile I will be trying to pick up scrap lead and tin where I can, but for the first pours I would go with something already mixed.

One other thing, about BHN, is it the higher the number the softer it gets or harder ??
Kind of confused about that one.

[DrCaveman]

Higher BHN is harder. Look at the chart above, while realizing that pure lead is the softest boolit that most of us will shoot...there's hot glue and stuff also.

Buy lee modern reloading and Lyman cast bullet handbook and have them with you at the bench. Lots more info (not all of it spot-on, but useful nonetheless) and it will prob inspire more questions from you.

Mixing alloy is not tough, just get everything melted and flux with sawdust, you are pretty well there. Do small batches (5-10 lb) til you figure out temp and crud removal etc.

I really like my lee TL-230 rn for 45 acp. My alloy is around 15 BHN so I'd recommend that one between the two you offer. You can get away with softer though.

[turmech]

The higher the BHN the harder the alloy. The number are deceiving as a 1 point jump in BHN is a big difference. Of all the thing to learn and consider when casting I would recommend you don't get so hung up on BHN. I don't even have a way to test it myself. Some do and it is kind of nice to know, but you can live with out knowing.

Rotometals is a fine source for lead, but for what you are trying to accomplish the swapping and selling forum of this site will get you there cheaper. For what you posted your loading for WW, Range lead or isotope cores will get you there easy and for close to $1 per LB.

Tin helps with fill out and the toughness of the bullet. Notice I did not say hardness. It does harden lead but not really why it is added anymore due to its cost. Tin also comes up in SS section. A roll of 50/50 solder cost around 15-20 dollars new and for someone looking to start might work if you feel you need it until some scrap tin could be found cheaper. If you use 50/50 just remember only half of what you add is tin. That is why I said I add .5 ounces per lead ingot. I am really only adding .25 ounces of tin. And I don't know if I even always need it as I have never tried casting without it. For smaller bullets, micro grove bullets or to increase toughness tin becomes more important.

[victor3ranger]

I did just remember that I have a bunch of Hornady 54 cal round balls and 54 cal buffalo bullets that I don't use anymore. Would these be good to melt and cast as is??

[turmech]

I am not familiar with either of them. I would not be surprised if they worked though as I said 45 acp is not real picky. You just will have to try them nothing bad will happen by recasting them and shooting them. Worst you will have to do is clean the barrel if it does not work

[243winxb]

Hornady 54 cal round balls and 54 cal buffalo bullets Pure lead would be my guess. To soft.

[victor3ranger]

Well, I guess it is at least a good source of lead then.

[prs]

The last two batches of ingots I cast were made of materials from RotoMetals, a sponsor of this site. It is not free, but it is reasonably priced and shipped in anything goes boxes. I decided to alloy the melt to 95pb-2sn-3sb by weight to achieve a nice 100# potful. Used a canning scale to measure. The SuperHard antimony was already 30% so two 5# bars of it and then two 1# rolls of lead free solder left the rest to be foundry pure lead. It casts very well, shoots great air cooled or water dropped. The water dropped was not as hard as I thought it would be, might need a little dash of arsenic from a up or so of magnum lead shot. I need to alloy another batch soon... well maybe not unless I can score some primers. I'll run out in a few weeks.

I slug my barrels, but all of my .45 Ruger and Marlin barrels are very close to .451" or just a tick larger. .452 to .454 feeds well in all of them.

prs

[victor3ranger]

I just wish I could find a .451 or .452 mold for 200g-230g round nose bullets. I can't find anything in stock!!:(

[DrCaveman]

Victor

Give it a little time. While I don't expect primers or powder to get back in stock real soon, nor reloading dies for that matter, I'll bet that boolit casting supplies become available again fairly soon.

While casting is addictive, it is not for everyone and there are plenty of people who feel that simply reloading is enough of a stretch in their safety net. Especially the super newbies that have gotten into it simply because of the ammo shortage. The fact that you're here already puts you in the ranks of true believers.

Hope I'm right!

[victor3ranger]

I hope you are right too Doc.

[MtGun44]

No need to pay for that 5% of tin unless you plan to cut it 60:40 with Pb.
A couple of percent of tin is all that is needed for fillout and tin is expensive.

For example - if you drop a 2" piece of the new near pure tin solder into a Lee 20 lb pot
of wwts this is often all it takes to make the fillout improve a lot. If one doesn't do it
do it again.

Bill