30-30 Brass Issues

[TXGunNut]

I've been having loads of fun with my thutty-thutty project but one detail is nagging me. I use 100% RP range pickup brass for this project and it all seems to be at least a few thousandths short. I also use a light roll crimp and cannot get a consistent crimp because of the varying case lengths. I also use the RCBS Cowboy case mouth expander.
Seems I have three options:
1. Shorten my Lee trimmer gauge and uniform all my brass to .005-.007 under trim-to length
2. Buy Hornady or another higher-quality brass
3. Lose the crimp, just straighten out the flare

Not too interested in the second option, this is a low-bucks project centered around an inexpensive 336, a 2-7 Redfield scope, range pickup brass and free WW's. Boolits are .311 and the expander is .309, I'm thinking door #3, Monte.

[btroj]

In a word, trim

[MattOrgan]

Trim is the right answer, but a Lee factory crimp die will work too. Kinda tough to use tubular magazine without crimp.

[newton]

If the necks are too short the die won't crimp. Me thinks that a collet neck sizing die would be best. Then you could just flare the top, seat the boolit, and then take the flare out. I would be curious if it would be enough tension to hold it. But your choices are limited.

At least that is my approach with my dies.

[newton]

I've got the Lee delux rifle kit and the FCD

[Frank46]

That's what I did. Very inconsistent case lengths. A few passes with a cheap stone will serve you well. Frank

[newton]

Just reread the OP. I hate when I miss something, shows my ignorance. Based on the above, I'd trim. I was somehow thinking you had a Lee FCD you were using. You should be able to roll crimp shorter brass.

[lovedogs]

I'm kind of new at reloading the .30-30 but have been developing loads for a 336 for about a year now. I've been using 150 & 170 gr. bullets, both cast and jacketed. In my limited experience I've noted better accuracy by not crimping at all. I tried both roll and Lee Factory Crimp. No crimp has always given better accuracy. Using my stoutest load I ran one loaded cartridge through ten load and shoot cycles, keeping that round in the magazine so it could be recoil tested over and over. It never moved in the case neck so I could see no need for crimping. If I was shooting a rifle/caliber with more recoil it would probably be a concern but with my .30-30 I could find no advantage to crimping.

[plainsman456]

You need to find the common length of the brass and trim it.

After that crimp or no crimp,whatever works best for your rifle.

[Gunnut 45/454]

I guess I don't understand you OP if you got under sized brass trim to a common length and set your crimp die accordingly! Question for all here what crimping die doesn't allow adjustment for case length? I haven't seen one nor would I own one that wouldn't!:roll:

[TXGunNut]

Thanks for all the input. I wanted to take the lazy way out but if consistency on the shooting bench is my goal, consistency at my loading bench is the way to get there. I knocked a little too much off my Lee trimmer gauge but now a have a nice big handful of brass trimmed to 2.020" Some of it had grown significantly but a few just refused to to so. Seems the gauge was a little long anyway. I don't think I'll have a problem getting a crimp on them but may try a few with neck tension only just for grins. Since it may be a hunting rifle someday I think my final load will have at least a light crimp.

[DrCaveman]

I've been running into this issue a little bit too, it has made me wonder whether I should even bother trimming 30-30 cases that have only seen light loads. In your case, and mine, though there are range pickups which had who knows what shot through them...but prob green yellow box full-house factory ammo is the answer.

I'm perplexed and a bit miffed by the fact that these cases dont lengthen at least enough for the trimmer to take off some meat after sizing. I kinda thought that resizing will usually lengthen the cases... The brass has to go somewhere.

I'm with you txgunnut, this seems weird. Maybe my trim gauge is too long also, never bothered to check it.

As it stands, I just set the lee FCD to a certain crimp on my few test rounds, and chug away. This may explain why I am having trouble getting better than 2" groups at 50 yds though... Or maybe it's one of the other half dozen factors which affect that accuracy goal.

I choose to pick my battles, and so far, this (case length) has not reached the top two on my list.

[TXGunNut]

I guess I should add I did a bit of "accuracy testing" with this rifle awhile back using a small handful of leftover (mixed) factory rounds and was very impressed. I know that when I get the combo right this ol' girl is going to be a shooter. I've also been working on a 32WS project and case length has been very consistent (new Hornady cases) and accuracy has been improving rapidly as well. I've been able to use consistent case length and crimp on the 32 project. I finally had to trim them last night, that gauge is apparently very close to the correct length.
I think the green/yellow box folks simply trim a given lot of cases to a nominal (and apparently slightly short) length and set the crimp die for that lot of cases. They do lengthen after 1-3 firings but the growth is not very consistent. One possible issue with shortening the gauge is that the tip may have softened a bit as the last few cases trimmed were shorter than the first 30 or so. Thinking it may need replacing or heat-treating. I'm pretty sure my gauge was about .005" long and many cases were about .005 short so there was no way to get cases to a consistent length without making some changes.
FWIW I got one case to grow a bit by accidentally running my 32WS case mouth expander thru it and then running it thru the 30-30 sizer again.