Fillers request

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

I would like to know what type(s) of fillers that you guys use when putting smokeless in the case of a 45/70.

Puff-lon

cotton balls (joke)

or whatever works the best for you.

I'm just starting to try using fillers for a bit better consistency and would like to know which ones seem to work the best for you out there.


Thanks

[Larry Gibson]

I use Dacron with the medium burning powders; 3031, 4895, etc. I usually use 1/2-1 gr depending on the loading density of the powder and the bullet seating depth. With faster burning powders I do not use a filler.

Larry Gibson

[Jon K]

Less work if you don't use them. When I do use a filler, I like Cornstarch Packing Peanuts. Cut to length with a razor, then roll between your fingers to fit the case.

Jon

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

If it is any help, I use H4198 for powder under a 1881 boolit.

[montana_charlie]

I haven't tried any smokeless powder in the big .45 cases. I just use the primer to launch bullets downrange.
But I do use a filler.
I special order my filler...and it says Goex Cartridge on the outside of the can.
CM

[John-n-va]

I'm with you MC....I can't imagine missing out on all the fun of packing my 45-90 case plum full of FFG and mashing it down enough to get a boolit in! Not to mention all the smoke and flame that comes out when I touch her off and all the curious folks who come around with lots of questions at the range! It just don't get any better than that IMHO.

[longhorn]

I think filllers are unnecessary in the .45-70; MCharlie has the right idea. OTOH, in the .458 (or .45 2 5/10, as I prefer to call it) I have used:

Grex-best of the lot, somewhat grainier than other shotgun buffers, easy to measure, never any leading

other shotgun buffers--OK, but messier than Grex, finer

Dacron--probably safest, good at maintaining "fill" of space, effective, hard for me to pinch off consistent amounts

toilet paper--worked, but the confetti effect is somewhat distracting; harder to use than Dacron

corn meal--clumsier to handle, too dense for my preference, I worry about months-long storage of an organic fiber with variable moisture content

cotton balls (no joke)--easy to handle, I worried about consistent maintenance of "fill", worked fine, but I always handled the cartridges gently

Puff-lon--the jury is still out on this one--I think flyers are a little more common with moly and cast bullets

You want to try any of these, you're on your own; I wouldn't use any of 'em in an original (old) .45-70--and make sure you're using a filler, NOT a wad.

[jonk]

Pufflon all the way. It is the only lubricating ballistic filler I know of; it flows under pressure, and won't ring a chamber or barrel. Not such an issue for a straight walled cartridge, but for 11mm Mauser, etc., yes, I use it.

[The Double D]

In large capacity cases I am a fan of fillers. I fail to see a need for a filler in a 45/70.

Puff-lon...I steer clear of it. It slugs up and slugs up hard.

http://www.fototime.com/ABD5F49218F2246/standard.jpg

And when dug out it still is hard

http://www.fototime.com/4F827095639E500/standard.jpg

This is only from the pressure generated by a primer

[WBH]

In your .45-2.1 you should not need a filler with 5744 or the bulkier powders.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

For MC and the other "one true way" guys, I shoot a H&R Buffy Classic so the "originality" is gone now (my original 1884 [1885 dated receiver] Trapdoor; now that was a different srotry for original). I shoot side by side with BP shooters and smokeless, just don't want to go over to the dark side.

And things were working without fillers with the 4198, I just was looking for a bit more consistency shot-to-shot. I could tell there were fliers out there, just was pretty sure the velocities were to blame for some...judging by recoil.

Long story short, I tried dacron this weekend at a shoot and could tell there was a marked difference in the consistency of shot-to-shot and without dacron. I am very happy with the results and cost of the filler. That is where the puff-lon didn't really excite me:cost. It was darned near twice a much as the powder I'm shooting, and that didn't make much sense to me. I could tell the pressures were up slightly, but they were always consistent. I could tell if the hit/miss was me now, not the gun/load. That is was I was looking for.

And no, I won't use filler with my 5744 loads in my Marlin. BTW, a 1881 style boolit coming out of a 16.25" barreled Marlin does have some fun quotient to it!!!

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

And for what it is worth, may I request your forgiveness for not shooting the Holy Black in any of my 45/70's? I know this is the BPCR section, and that is probably why I feel the need to completely confess all my sins with my rifles.[smilie=1:

Pennance will be freely accepted from all who give it.[smilie=l:

[44man]

I use only black powder in my rifle but I use SR 4759 in my BFR 45-70 revolver. I use dacron for a filler. I have done a lot of work with and without but the ones with filler seem to have a slight accuracy edge. I use LP primers and also found the Fed 155 also has a slight accuracy edge over the standard 150. The powder doesn't need either filler or a mag primer but I do get tighter groups with both. I think it will depend more on the powder you are going to use then anything, you have to experiment.
It is not important to get the exact amount of dacron in every case either, just so it looks close.
I have always had the feeling that a compressible filler like dacron takes up the primer force to cushion it so the powder can start a good burn without moving the boolit out of the crimp first.
I would never use a solid filler! I tried Puff Lon in several revolvers and it worked OK with light loads but with heavy loads it was worthless and opened groups.
Cotton might be OK but I would shred it good because it is heavier then dacron, I would not pack it. Toilet paper is not even and powder grains can move all around it, even get in front of it. Hard to get the same in every case.
I use what is called garnetted fiberfill, it has all fine strands without those long, thick strands mixed in. A joy to use.

[Boz330]

Pennance will be freely accepted from all who give it.[smilie=l:[/QUOTE]

Your pennance is TRY IT you'll like it. BP is slightly more hassel but is fun and gun clean up is quicker than with modern powder. Don't get me wrong I shoot the other stuff to, but it seems so wrong not to use the right stuff in the original calibers.

Bob

PS I have had good luck with Kapok in several peliminary trials, although it looks like a snow storm at the shot and floats foever.

[montana_charlie]

I feel the need to completely confess all my sins with my rifles.
Since we have now entered the confessional...I must confess that I have been impressed with the storys from those who use duplex loads.
The idea of eliminating the 'fouling control' requirement is rather intriguing.

But even in those loads, the 'filler' is still black powder.
CM

[45 2.1]

...I must confess that I have been impressed with the storys from those who use duplex loads.
The idea of eliminating the 'fouling control' requirement is rather intriguing.
But even in those loads, the 'filler' is still black powder.
CM

Duplexing does indeed cut the fouling, but you really need to try the newest innovation they've came out with, it's called smokeless powder and it does away with blackpowder fouling altogether while letting you maintain or exceed the level of accuracy given by blackpowder.:mrgreen:

[kodiak1]

Have shot both smokeless with filler (Cream of Wheat is what I like) and Black Powder. As long as I am having fun with what I am shooting that is what I use.

By myself or one or two others with me I will use Black but if there is more than that with me at the range and they all want to shoot I will use the Smokeless.
Ken.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Another part the the smokeless equation for me is that I want to be able to take any of my 45/70 loads and put them through my leverguns without problems (cleaning/rusting guts/ect) in "tough" times. And I know that I can do this, even with my buffalo loads; the only caveat is that they are single shot/loading propositions then. Even my 16.25" Marlin shoots a 500gr 1881 boolit fairly well!



I just watch all the guys shooting black at the matches and don't really want to get into the associated extra steps between shots: blow tube time is the most for me. I can't stand waiting for the guys still blowing/adjusting when it is their time to shoot on the string, and I don't want to be the "holdup" for others. Watching them shoot looks like work to me....

[Boz330]

I see said the blind man!!! Makes sense to me. Never looked at it that way since the stuff I shoot everyone is doing tha same thing so it's not a problem.

Enjoy
Bob

[WBH]

It could be my loading techniques, or the rifles I am shooting, but...... I have never got the accuracy from smokeless in any of my guns designed for BP, except a 405gr bullet from NEI with a huge meplat that seems to love 5744 in my 45-2.1. Other than that....give me black for the rollers, Sharps, etc.

[Bent Ramrod]

I use Kapok, when the urge to use a filler hits me. Only takes a tiny amount, and seems to work well. You have to find old couch cushions or an old life preserver to get it any more. I got a convenience store shopping bag worth of the stuff from a chair seat about 20 years ago; it should last me the rest of my life.

Black powder cartridge shooting with black powder is fun and all like that, but I find the same amount of effort it takes to load 20 blackpowder cartridges can be used to load 50 of the same cartridges with smokeless powder. I know a "serious" blackpowder shooter who spent so much time tinkering with his Sharps rifles, casting boolits, trickling in black powder, washing cases and doing other reloading chores to support his silhouette shooting hobby that one terrible day he just totally burned out. He sold his lathe and most of his rifles and took up ballroom dancing :shock: !

Fortunately, after a few years, he gradually quit the dancing, slowly rehabilitated himself in stages to Harley riding, and finally sold the bike and started accumulating Sharps' and Highwalls and shooting them again. But it was a near thing! He was even starting to look like Antonio Banderas there for a while. Ain't gonna happen to me, even if I have to shoot that newfangled white powder (with fillers)to avoid it!

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Black powder cartridge shooting with black powder is fun and all like that, but I find the same amount of effort it takes to load 20 blackpowder cartridges can be used to load 50 of the same cartridges with smokeless powder. I know a "serious" blackpowder shooter who spent so much time tinkering with his Sharps rifles, casting boolits, trickling in black powder, washing cases and doing other reloading chores to support his silhouette shooting hobby that one terrible day he just totally burned out. He sold his lathe and most of his rifles and took up ballroom dancing :shock: !




I know that I spend quite a bit of time already on my loads, and using black would make it even more so. I'm not into the game for blood, just fun. I regularly shoot against guys who do shoot Sharps, rollers, and even ground up custom rifles (every part handmade by the shooter)...so I don't even try to beat them too hard. All the extra work and money isn't worth it to me.

I did the motorcycle thing whilst doing the shooting thing also. That takes quite a bit of time....now the children are requiring my time moreso than the bike. They love to shoot so I'm not completely out of my "fun" habits!! Can't beat that with a stick!:drinks:

[Cimarron Red]

I shoot black in my single-shot .45-70's. I also use black ln my lever guns occasionally, but mostly smokeless powder, SR-4759 with either a 325 gr. or 405 gr. bullet. I get no unburned powder unlike with 5744.