Tin/Lead alloys for good fillout

[fusionstar916]

I was wondering how much % tin I would need for good fill out? Im trying to get the softest bullet possible with the noe 311247 PB and have good fill out.
I was thinking 2%-3% tin, like 1 to 40 and 1 to 30 but have never used certified alloy so im just guessing.
Also how much pure tin would I have to add to COWW, and Range scrap to achive 2%-3%?

[Charlie Two Tracks]

The third sticky down on this section has an alloy calculator in it. Download that and you can figure out what you have and what you want. It will tell the percentages and BHN of the alloy you enter. A very useful tool.

edit: I just added the link for you
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

[Gibbs44]

I've been wondering about this as well. I'm very new to this by the way. I've got some lead that is primarily wheel weights, but I've added some 50/50 solder very unscientifically. Basically out of two hours using a Lyman 429421 mould I got 20 useable bullets, and some of them were rounded at the lube grooves instead of having the beautiful sharp lines seen elsewhere on this site. Most of the rest were not filled well at the base or rounded to the point I just ended up remelting them, some of the rounded edges appeared frosted as well. I don't know if I threw in some zinc or not, if that would even cause the problem that I'm having. I'll probably just end up throwing out what I have and starting over a little more scientifically.

[leadman]

Gibbs44, did you sort out the zinc wheelweights before melting them? A side cutter pliers will tell you immediately if it is lead or zinc, see the sticky above on this.

[Lloyd Smale]

You can actually get good fillout with pure lead without any tin at all. Just run the mold and lead pot real hot and cast slowly to allow the bullets to set up before you dump them. As a matter of fact ive seen where adding tin to large bullet molds can sometimes cause hot spots on bullets where the two cavitys are closest and will cause frosting and poor fillout in those areas. Many times when cast for my .50 cals and using a 2 cav mold i cast it as a one cavity and rotate which cavity i use to prevent this with harder lead alloys. One guy on here and i thought it was felix but im not sure explained it like this. take solder which is mostly tin and heat up a peice of steel cherry red and solder will not stick to it, it almost repells it until you use a flux. Ive added tin to alloys for nign on 30 years and sometimes asked myself why. Ive never seen tin make any differnce in the way ww cast unless it was maybe contaminated with a little zinc and in that case it took probably twice as much tin as most recomend to get it to work. Personaly i think adding two percent tin to wws is just throwing away good money. About the only thing I use tin for anymore is when trying to make something like #2 out of ww when i dont have any linotype to do it with.

[detox]

You can actually get good fillout with pure lead without any tin at all. Just run the mold and lead pot real hot and cast slowly to allow the bullets to set up before you dump them. As a matter of fact ive seen where adding tin to large bullet molds can sometimes cause hot spots on bullets where the two cavitys are closest and will cause frosting and poor fillout in those areas. Many times when cast for my .50 cals and using a 2 cav mold i cast it as a one cavity and rotate which cavity i use to prevent this with harder lead alloys. One guy on here and i thought it was felix but im not sure explained it like this. take solder which is mostly tin and heat up a peice of steel cherry red and solder will not stick to it, it almost repells it until you use a flux. Ive added tin to alloys for nign on 30 years and sometimes asked myself why. Ive never seen tin make any differnce in the way ww cast unless it was maybe contaminated with a little zinc and in that case it took probably twice as much tin as most recomend to get it to work. Personaly i think adding two percent tin to wws is just throwing away good money. About the only thing I use tin for anymore is when trying to make something like #2 out of ww when i dont have any linotype to do it with.

Interesting and tin is expensive.

[Case Stuffer]

I always used pure lead when casting balls and minies for black powder firearms and never had fill issues.

[Larry Gibson]

A 1-40 alloy would suit your purposes very well. I don't find tin to be that expensive (reletive to everything else these days) considering the small % used and the improvement it makes to bullets.

Larry Gibson

[Case Stuffer]

Smeltered range lead and WW goes for $1 lb. from some members here,tin goes for $18 . I know that I am cheap ,live on a fixed income but to me it looks like 2.5% tim increases cost 30% or so.

100 lbs. range or WW $100
98 lbs. range or WW $98 plus 2.5 lbs Tin @ $18 per lbs. is $40 for a totla of $132 for 100 lbs.

I do agree however with primers at 3 to 4 cents each plus and powder at 2 cents plus per round that alloy is still relatively inexpensive.

If one is using range lead where a good bit of quality case boolits are fired then there should be enough tin in the mix with a little luck. What I put down range is 2% tin.

[shadowcaster]

I have to agree with those who stated that tin is expensive. Try casting some up without adding any additional tin, as there is most likely tin already in the WW's and range scrap. If you are then having fill out issues, add some tin in small amounts until you reach your desired needs. I personally try really hard to not add any more that 1% tin to any alloy if I can help it. I prefer not to add any tin at all, as most of the scrap lead I use usually has some tin in it already.

Shad

[Gibbs44]

Thanks leadman, I guess I didn't realize that there were different types of wheel weight. I know now. These weights were from 20+years ago, so I think I'm safe there. I will be checking the rest of what I have before melting and cleaning though.

[Defcon-One]

1% Tin would be the minimum in my opinion. You should get good fillout, at that level, if temps and procedures are correct for your mold.

I use 25:1 (4.76% Tin) for hollow point bullets in handguns and it expands very well. Tough, but not brittle. I suspect that it would be too soft for your .311 application though with a plain based bullet.

A bigger issue if you really want "the softest bullet possible" is the Antimony content in your Wheel Weights. I would use Stick-On Wheel Weight Lead plus enough Tin to get to 1% total. That would leave you with basically no Antimony, which is found in COWW and is the element that is responsible for most of the hardness in our current bullet alloys.

Velocity will also determine how soft that you can go. Especially without using gas checks.

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Gibbs44: Make sure your mold is clean with no grease or oil. I use a soft tooth brush with a bit of dish soap (Palmolive). I do it all twice and rinse well each time then I dry it completely and reassemble. This is the only way I know to get all the oil out. It always fixes mold fill-out problems for me. If you're getting frosted bullets, low mold temp is probably not the issue.