Question about possible new gun law?

[oldred]

I think we are going to have to prepare ourselves for some new laws in spite of anything we can do but I just hope it will be limited to more annoyance than actual restrictions. I think the push for background checks on all sales even private will soon come to pass because I keep hearing from some of our legislators, ones that are supposed to be defending our rights, that they do support these changes so apparently we are going to have to live with that one regardless of whatever else. My question is has anyone heard how this is supposed to work? If there is a sale between two non-licensed people how will this be handled? Who does the paper work and retains the records? Will the seller and buyer have to go to a dealer or a designated authority to do this or will the seller be required to fill out a form and send it to some Government agency?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

We don't know yet.

I don't think Obama will get this from the GOP running the house. but will use it in the 2014 elections.

NOW, here in Loony Liberal Minnesota, the Dems run the state House, State Senate, and the gov's office. They are talking about state laws for all the same stuff in the national news. Our Gov is starting to backpeddle on the bans...but I think they'll get background checks on all purchases...they haven't said exactly how they want to do it, but some of the most liberal have mentioned background checks for both buyer and seller...if both background checks fail, the gun is confiscated.

[HighHook]

We have been doing this **** in Kalifornia for years now. Both go to a ffl dealer and do the transfer. Get it out of his name and $25 gets it in yours. :-?

[bobthenailer]

Here in PA we have insta check for transfers between 2 parties or if bought from the FFL dealer. the seller & the buyer both have to show ID in most cases a DL will do, both of us fill out forms supplied by the FFL dealer and then its called in by the FFL dealer by phone to the state police and in 5 to 15 min the transaction is approved or denied and you walk out with your new purchase if approved.

[Pepe Ray]

What records????
There should be NO records of inherited fire arms nor of subsequent transfers.
UNLESS YOU have been a FOOL and willingly submitted to the invasion of privacy.
Pepe Ray

[plmitch]

We have been doing this **** in Kalifornia for years now. Both go to a ffl dealer and do the transfer. Get it out of his name and $25 gets it in yours. :-?

Like you said we've been doing it here for years. Easy to do and not very expensive. Likely to be the norm someday everywhere.

[km101]

Records? We dont need no stinkin' records! :Fire:

[oldred]

What records????
There should be NO records of inherited fire arms nor of subsequent transfers.
UNLESS YOU have been a FOOL and willingly submitted to the invasion of privacy.
Pepe Ray


I know what you are saying and I am sure many transfers will/do go down without telling anyone else or filling out squat, I would not be likely to tell them if I sold or gave away a firearm that had been in the family that had no record of prior sales! This get's a bit stickier if a person buys a gun from a dealer and then decides a short time later to sell it to someone else, I guess in a way this becomes a defacto registration system and that's my main concern with it and why we must oppose it as much as possible. Like I said before however it seems almost sure to become law before long because it does not seem to meet as much opposition as some of the other proposals.

[41 mag fan]

I agree oldred, it'll pass as a band aid so the libs can say they got gun control, and criminals will be hindered on acquiring a gun to commit a crime. Only thing it will be is a nuisance. FFl dealers will be bothered by people wanting to do a private sale, FFL dealer will make the $25 they'll charge to transfer, FFL dealer will hold onto paperwork for however long is required.

And in the meantime, criminals will still be acquiring guns the same way they have for decades....illegally

[WILCO]

I think we are going to have to prepare ourselves for some new laws in spite of anything we can do but I just hope it will be limited to more annoyance than actual restrictions.

There's a reason why the NYS Safe Act mirrors federal law proposals. It's out of the same play book. Read that to get the picture.

[3006guns]

Like you said we've been doing it here for years. Easy to do and not very expensive. Likely to be the norm someday everywhere.

Yes, and that firearm that fought in WWI, WWII or Korea suddenly gets on the state records and they know who owns it and where it is. I don't like it and never will. None of the libs business. Think of it this way (and of course I'm not suggesting this).....if an older firearm was privately transferred and NOT papered, who's to know how long the present owner actually owned it? Fortunately, there is no law YET that requires you to run down and "register" a firearm just because you own one....but it could be coming down the pike and that's going to be a nasty fight.

[dbosman]

In my opinion, we should be looking to what England did to the estate owners. They didn't seize the estates, they just upped the fees and taxes until the estate owners were forced to hand them over and stay on as managers.

[shooter93]

oldred....the people doing the paper work on face to face sales will be the same people who do it now.....no one.

[Wayne Smith]

Most people don't know this, but right now, under current law, the only transfer that does not require some sort of record keeping is inheritance. Even in FTF sales you are both required to keep some sort of record, few do, but it is a requirement. When my Dad died I flew from Florida with a couple of guns and no paperwork of any kind is required in that situation.

[firefly1957]

Looks like right now the universal check may fail as the want a record of all gun buyers something that is now illegal.

[fecmech]

The problem will be if and when they pass a universal background check. From that point on any new gun purchases you make will put you in jeopardy if you sell without a background check because the gun will be tied to you. Any new gun purchases in the past can't be prosecuted unless they can prove you made the sale after the law was past as there was no requirement prior to the law. This if passed will in effect be registration of firearms.

[1Shirt]

Could be another Polosi type deal don'tcha know "the need to pass it so we can read it" kind of BS!
1Shirt!

[softpoint]

I don't think this mess will get past the House, even if it does somehow get past the Senate. It is registration, it is unconstitutional as hell. Everyone should contact their Senators, and let them know that no new gun control laws are acceptable.They might like more laws, but they like thier jobs better.

[KYCaster]

We have been doing this **** in Kalifornia for years now. Both go to a ffl dealer and do the transfer. Get it out of his name and $25 gets it in yours. :-?



Any data on how many have been prosecuted or convicted for failing to do the transfer?

Any data on how many unqualified buyers fail to get a gun because of the transfer requirement?

?

?

?

Nah, didn't think so.

Jerry

[tomme boy]

Don't look at the Federal level. It is going to come from the State. Just saying.

[wv109323]

I don't think we have to give up any of our existing rights. I think all the talk out of Washington is to make us think that "universal back ground checks are the new norm". If enough of us get involved there will be no new laws.
I say before you give up any thing call ,write, E-mail your representatives. Don't believe that WE have to accept what Congress decides is best for us. Let's put up a fight before we cave in to their "protecting us".

[dragon813gt]

Here in PA we have insta check for transfers between 2 parties or if bought from the FFL dealer. the seller & the buyer both have to show ID in most cases a DL will do, both of us fill out forms supplied by the FFL dealer and then its called in by the FFL dealer by phone to the state police and in 5 to 15 min the transaction is approved or denied and you walk out with your new purchase if approved.

You only have to do this for handgun(used) transfers thanks to the state's illegal handgun registration program. All new purchases require the check. We have to fill out a separate form that goes to the state police when purchasing/transferring a handgun. At least I know exactly where this form goes. I don't like this one bit but it's the only way to legally acquire one in the state, sort of. Problem is when someone dies. There is no way to have it legally transferred into your name. You can bet I will transfer one properly if I sell one. I don't need a visit from law enforcement if the handgun is used in a future crime. There is no need to go to a FFL to transfer a long gun. FTF transfers are legal.

[dakotashooter2]

In the states that are still part of Free America this will be wholy uneffective without some type of registration to track each gun. Otherwise unless you get caught in the act many guns can be traded back and forth because there is no documentation of ownership......................

[oldred]

In the states that are still part of Free America this will be wholy uneffective without some type of registration to track each gun. Otherwise unless you get caught in the act many guns can be traded back and forth because there is no documentation of ownership......................


This is exactly why I asked this in the first place. Unless there is some sort of record on file at some Government agency how could they detect such private sales? What about thefts and loss? I know no one has the answers to that question but have the drafters of this nonsense even thought about that? It's going to be the same old same old, more useless laws for the crooks to ignore!

[FISH4BUGS]

As a machine gun, SBR, SBS, AOW's and supressor owner, I am already at the top of their list. However, my feeling is that there are already very tight and onerous background checks on those, (not to mention the tax stamp at $200 per gun or $5 for AOW's) so I don't think anything will chnage there.
But those handguns, shotguns and rifles I bought in private sales all those years ago will be sold soon.....to someone that died recently.....or not......or maybe they will be lost when my canoe overturned in the lake.....or maybe stolen.....or something.....
My guess is that they will make a private sale without a background check a felony....so all those criminals can have one more charge to plea bargain away. Meanwhile the innocent get charged and convicted.
Jeez.....the inmates are truly running the asylum now.

[oldred]

My boat has bad leak in it also but I just can't seem to find the time to fix it! I also have a shed out back that has a bad habit of catching fire for unknown reasons.

[deep creek]

Aquestion,We have several states blatently violating our second ammendmant rights.Why havent they been prosecuted?Who decides?Whats the fine?Who arrests them?Is it worth the paper its written on under the current admin?Why cant we arrest them?Everybody says they have violated our rights but nothing happens.I dont understand.

[Bullshop]

Aquestion,We have several states blatently violating our second ammendmant rights.Why havent they been prosecuted?Who decides?Whats the fine?Who arrests them?Is it worth the paper its written on under the current admin?Why cant we arrest them?Everybody says they have violated our rights but nothing happens.I dont understand.
I think that would be the responcability of the atterny general Mr Eric Withholder. Since he is himself criminaly liable for infractions of his own its not likely he is in the mood to point any fingers at his comrads. This administration has faithfully upheld the Chicago gangster tradition of purchasing and owning the law and using it to extract extortion money. Ya gots ta pay for patection----- protection from what ----- patection from dis-BANG! Just a small % of everything is the gangster way. Not too much to ask for safety and PATECTION!

[Harter66]

I won't name names but it hasn't been so long ago that I swapped numerous firearms w/an active LEO w/o any paper other than Andy, Abe,George or Ben. I realize the laws are different state to state . I've never done any paper on any FTF deal. The calls have never included any info other than long/handgun while the forms do a fellows address is known to change..........

[Charlie Two Tracks]

When you go buy a gun and fill out the paper work, you just let the Feds know where that gun is. If they have the serial number of the gun and your name, way down the line they can confiscate it if guns are outlawed. Oh, you sold it and don't have the paper work? That ain't going to work. Background check of the individual but not of the weapon.
There are quite a few guns in Illinois that people had before the FOID card came about. They know where all the guns are after the FOID card but not the ones before. Know which guns are recorded and which ones aren't. The "aren'ts are more expensive.

[41 mag fan]

My boat has bad leak in it also but I just can't seem to find the time to fix it! I also have a shed out back that has a bad habit of catching fire for unknown reasons.

Dam kids sneaking into the shed smoking!!

[pipehand]

Got a Wal-Mart giftcard for mine at the no questions asked buy "back(?)"

[gray wolf]

As you may be aware Organizing for Action, President Obama’s anti-gun lobbying arm, is targeting Senator Collins in an attempt to get her to support a proposal that would dramatically expand the current instant background check system by criminalizing private firearm transfers. They are using the misleading label of “universal background checks” to create confusion in order to pass this legislation quickly through Congress.
Don’t be fooled. Any system that criminalizes private firearms transfers – whether between a grandfather and granddaughter, father-in-law and son-in-law, or two law-abiding gun owners who have known each other for years – is a direct infringement on your Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Further, criminals will never submit to such a system so it will have no effect on crime – and as the Department of Justice has said, the only way to enforce
“universal background checks” is to create a national registry of gun owners. Please email, write, tweet, leave a comment on her Facebook page, AND call Senator Collins and ask her to OPPOSE this gun control scheme in addition to any bill that would reinstate a failed ban on semi-automatic rifles or magazines.

Yes that was for Maine, and I'm sure every other state also, and yes I did contact her and expressed my distaste for this and any other new gun Crapolla. I can't believe some folks are not to concerned about this. Willing to see it as a small victory for the enemy
( yes they are the enemy )
Well I think we should be, it's the next step that leads to confiscation. Have we forgot history ?? do we think it only happens to the other guy ?? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Do we not stop and think what horror they must have in store that would make them press on so hard ?
This crappp comes from the top, the very top, not some winy Lib on the street, they are just
the fools that think they are immune. We cannot go to sleep, we cannot give up anymore.
I pray this is settled without physical discourse. If not, this war will not be fought on the battle field, it will be fought in and on the streets we call home, In our back yards and in our fields. in front of the children --in front of our wives and family.

[Artful]

Fortunately, there is no law YET that requires you to run down and "register" a firearm just because you own one....but it could be coming down the pike and that's going to be a nasty fight.

I think your forgetting the laws by left wing states that did require registration of "assualt" rifles, and then states like Kalifornia that said at first you didn't need to register SKS's - then after the deadline said you did need to register them - then said all those registered after the deadline were illegal and had to be confiscated, and oh yeah thanks to your registration we have your name and address so we'll be around shortly.

[David2011]

I agree oldred, it'll pass as a band aid so the libs can say they got gun control, and criminals will be hindered on acquiring a gun to commit a crime. . .

And in the meantime, criminals will still be acquiring guns the same way they have for decades....illegally

Yep, and the next time something bad happens involving the criminally insane and a firearm they'll be back and want half of the piece of cake yet again.

New Mexico had enough people resist and show their disapproval of our proposed New York style ban last week. In additions to huge volumes of e-mail and phone calls to legislators a lot of 2A supporters showed up at the capitol on the day the bill was voted on by its committee. It was tabled which in our short session is death to a bill.

David

[montana_charlie]

Who ... retains the records?
There is a fight over that in Washington, right now.
Four Senators are dickering over gun laws, and that universal background check is the main bone of contention at the moment.

Currently federal law says there are no records kept which could lead to registration. The Democrats say they have no plans for registration, but without permanent records the thing won't work. The Republicans don't want any permanent records.

There has been a proposal to let some non-governmental entity keep the records ... like gun manufcturers, or somebody.
I guess that is the bone being picked over as we speak.

If I was a Republican Senator in that group of four, I would propose that the NRA be the entity which maintains the records.
I think that would cause the Dems to choke on their Coke, and start gagging too hard to continue.

However ... and this is a big however ... I think (and I hope) there's a good chance none of it will pass the House and become law.

CM

[geargnasher]

They'll mow us down like weeds and tell the rest of the world we were a terrorist threat.

Not looking forward to that. Don't forget who owns the media. We should really be more concerned about that than more restrictive gun laws, because when you own the media, you control everything.

Gear

[Artful]

Actually those who write the history and teach the children control everything.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

You nailed it Gear