SR 98 Mauser action

[trainfever]

I have a Mauser SR 98 and was thinking about making a 25/06 out if it. Would this receiver be able to handle the pressure of it?

[FrankG]

I have used the Turk K.Kale large ring , small thread actions for 25-06 and 30-06 without problem. All dimentions were same as large ring with exception of reciever barrel threads .They are just threaded for the .980 " dia barrels like a '95 action.

[Goatwhiskers]

I don't recognize the SR designation, must be sporting rifle. The model 98 action is plenty strong enough to handle the 25/06, people been doing it for years. GW

[trainfever]

SR = small ring. Its a small ring 98 Mauser, not the standard large ring and yes it is a 98.

[FrankG]

Is it the small ring Mexican 98 action ?

Can you post a pic of it and crest ?

[trainfever]

I hope these pics show up
62175621766217762178

[trainfever]

Also, does anyone know the best way to remove the handguard retainer? Not sure of its proper name. Its that small semi circle ring of metal at the end of barrel, begining of receiver. Dont know if its welded on or soldered on.

[FrankG]

Looks like the Mex reciever . The ring may be like a washer , the turks were part of reciever and needed turned off with a lathe while dressing reciever face. If the magazine box is long enough for the 25-06 it will work fine . A lot were rebarreled 30-06 and IIRC they were 7.65x53 and some of those were rechambered to 30-06 .

[gzig5]

The Polish Radom is a small ring/large thread action. A lot of knowledgeable people don't consider these actions strong enough for modern high pressure cartridges. Fine the pressures they were designed around though. The wall of the receiver ring is supposedly too thin for long term robustness with 60k PSI cartridges and the action is more prone to future headspace problems. They are fine for 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57 and so on at original pressure levels. Plenty of info out there if you search. This is not to say it hasn't been done, but it is a risky endeavor compared to the other Mauser actions available.

I have one of these types of actions that was sporterized between the wars and it is a nice rifle in 8x57.

The handguard retaining lip would be ground off if you wanted it removed.

[trainfever]

Yea I havent done much research yet. I just noticed that Brownells has a 25/06 barrel that would screw right onto this receiver and would make my first rebarreling project a lot easier. They also have a 243 but I feel it is marginal for white tail deer which is what I am building this rifle for.Theres also a 250 savage but I dont know much about that caliber. I want to stay with an american caliber though, and stay away from the 6.5s, 7s and 8s.

[flounderman]

You have a polish Radom, not a turk. I have a lot of the small ring threaded-large ring turks in magnum calibers with no problems. I have a 25-06 improved on a small ring 98 that had the barrel on it when I bought it and it is stamped 25-06 Jarret and never had a problem with it. As far as the 243 goes for deer, I have probably killed more deer with the 243 than all the other calibers I own, combined. I like the 260, too. The 100 grain 243 is a good choice for deer and it doesn't spoil a lot of meat. Dead is dead, you don't need to see how much meat you can destroy in the process. as far as the smaller receiver ring, there is only 3/4 of an inch or so, of the chamber end threaded smaller than a large ring. Your Radom is before the German occupation and should be good quality and speaking for what I would do, I would barrel it to any chamber I wanted.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Another small ring 98 Mauser that isn`t commonly seen is the Kar 98A. I have a double dated 1918/1920 parts 98A and it is a real treasure to shoot leaving it in 8mm.Robert

[bob208]

the small rings were the radom that the polls made.which was a copy of the kar98a made by the germans. and then the 33-40 which was mad for the germen ski and mountian troops. the 33-40's were the prime actions for light weight sporters in the 50-60-70's. in fact if you find one that is unaltered hange on to it. all of those actions fired the 8 m/m.euorpen loadings. so they would handle. the 06.

[FrankG]

My mistake sorry, I didnt make out the stamping till now below crest........... RADOM .

The RADOM I had was soft .

I would not run anything over 46,000 CUP in that action. 7x57 would work well , is plentiful and has plenty power for whitetail deer , bear , elk etc.

[Larry Gibson]

Yea I havent done much research yet. I just noticed that Brownells has a 25/06 barrel that would screw right onto this receiver and would make my first rebarreling project a lot easier. They also have a 243 but I feel it is marginal for white tail deer which is what I am building this rifle for.Theres also a 250 savage but I dont know much about that caliber. I want to stay with an american caliber though, and stay away from the 6.5s, 7s and 8s.

Measure the mag length. If 3.3" then the 25-06 will fit. If closer to 3" then it will not, very well anyway...... I've had several Mex SR M98s that I've rebarreled with SR barrels; latest is a 6.5 Swede done with a new milsurp M38 barrel. They make great little rifles. If your mag is short take a hard look at a SR 250 Savage prethreaded barrel. Fit it to the action and then finish ream with a 257 Roberts reamer. The 257 R will fit the action perfectly and is an excellent cartridge.

Larry Gibson

[trainfever]

I think Im going to go with the .257 Roberts. I checked my reloading manual for the specs on the 8mm. The most pressure generated by it was 37000 c.u.p. So I checked for calibers with the same or lower pressure ratings, there werent many. Besides, I think Brownells already has a .257R barrel prethreaded for the Mauser which makes my first rebarrelling job that much easier. :)

[Cactus Farmer]

Good choice. I am doing the same on a Mexican 1933 model.

[flounderman]

you would like the 260 better. nothing wrong with the 257. the 243 kind of killed its popularity and the 257 is a better choice than a 243. the 260 is a little shorter than a 257 but you should have room for a 257. I have a 25-06 Jarrett on my small ring 98

[trainfever]

Wow, now I am totally confused. There are a number of calibers that I would like to choose but to be on the safe side, I want to choose one with pressure equal to or less than the 8mm., the reason being is because that's what is in the action now. But after looking in my Lyman reloading manual, it seems as if the 8mm. is one of the weakest calibers chambered in rifles with only a few less powerful like the 30-30 which I already have. I was going to go with the .257R butI must have misread the data and the pressure is greater than I thought. Is there a normal guide as to how to choose a safe caliber for any given action/caliber combination?

[bruce drake]

Stay with your 257 Roberts idea for a quick conversion. Its a good round and easily capable of dropping a good-sized whitetail with either its 100gr or 117gr bullet. You also won't have to adjust the feed rails since its the same length as the 7x57 and 8x57 cartridges. Keep the reloads at the original pressures and don't try to reload them to the 257+P pressures that some manuals list them at.

If you convert it to 260 Rem or 243 Rem you are going to run against pressures issues with that small ring mauser in addition to having feeding issues with the shorter case. Keep the pressure under 46K with jacketed bullets and your Radom will work excellently.

Bruce

[trainfever]

I was looking to keep pressures under 46K as that was the maximum listed for the 7mm. But the 8mm. is listed as having a maximum pressure of 37k. My rifle has an 8mm. barrel, thats where my concern is.

[Junior1942]

That 37K max for 8-57 is in concern for .323" bullets swaging through .318" bores. If your bore is .323" load it like normal.

[trainfever]

That 37K max for 8-57 is in concern for .323" bullets swaging through .318" bores. If your bore is .323" load it like normal.

Im doing away with the barrel and Im looking for a new caliber barrel that is safe for this action.

[Wayne Smith]

Europeans load the 8x57 up to 47,000 PSI. You have nothing to worry about. The American data, as mentioned, is limited to make .323 bullets safe in a .318 barrel. 257 Roberts or Roberts AI would be safe in that without question.

[Junior1942]

My $69.95 38 Turk small ring Mauser 98 in 8x57 is no 30-30.

185 Rem 2395 fps
175 Sierra 2537 fps
180 Nosler BT 2416 fps.

All are 1.0 to 1.5 MOA except the Nosler 180 BT which is .75 to 1.25 MOA. All are mild loads which could be increased, but I shoot what works and is mild.

[flounderman]

If you are shooting handloads you can load them to any pressure you want them to be. The 8mm was loaded down due to the older rifles available in that caliber, and there was two different bore diameters. I think you will find the stuff the Germans were shooting was not low pressure loads. The commercial loading is because of the possibility of someone using it in one of the early 8mms. You can shoot any caliber you want.

[Gee_Wizz01]

The 257 Roberts is an outstanding for hunting whitetails and functions like a breeze through a mauser action. My Dad bought a custom 98 rifle in 257 Roberts back in 1947, and has killed over 100 whitetails and countless coyotes with it until he quit hunting in 1995. I also killed quite a few deer and coyotes with it also. As stated above, the 257 feeds through a Mauser action without any modifications, since it is a 7X57 necked down to .257. A lot of 93 Mausers were converted to 257 and that is one of the reasons for the lower pressure rating of the .257 Roberts. The 250 Savage is also an excellent round, but I don't know how well it will feed through a Mauser as it is a shorter round. Midway sells their A&B barrels in 257 Roberts for both small and large ring Mausers. I have had very good luck with the A&B barrels and they are bargain priced.

G

[trainfever]

Well I think I narrowed my choices down to one of these four callibers: .250 savage, .257 Roberts, 25-06 or the 7mm. 08. I decided against the .243 only because I have a Ruger no.1 in that caliber.

[pietro]

.

FWIW, While the early/military Husqvarna rifles were M1896/96 Mausers, the later commercial Husqvarna & S&W's (before S&W went to Howa) were Small Ring 98 Mauser's - chambered in .308/.30-06 class cartridges (Before Husqvarna moved to the HVA action).

That's not to say a soft, poorly-made SR98 is up to snuff.

Due to feeding issues, I'd suggest chambering for a standard-length cartridge - my vote's for the classic: 7x57 Mauser.



.

[z1r]

SR Large Thread 98's are not the best choice for high pressure rounds. There is a reason the Germans phased them out and ultimately went with the Czech designed vz33 which they then had produced as the G33/40.

The later Polish actions are among the better actions but even they dropped this design.

A .257, 7x57, or 6.5x55 would be a good choice for those who hunt a few times a year.

[John 242]

SR Large Thread 98's are not the best choice for high pressure rounds. There is a reason the Germans phased them out and ultimately went with the Czech designed vz33 which they then had produced as the G33/40.

The later Polish actions are among the better actions but even they dropped this design.

A .257, 7x57, or 6.5x55 would be a good choice for those who hunt a few times a year.

I realize that this thread has run its course, but z1r makes a very valid point.

There seems to be some confusion as to what kind of Mauser the original poster has.
The Polish 98 carbine is nearly a carbon copy of the Kar 98a (1), which is a small ring (1.300-inch) Mauser with large ring threads (1.100). There is significantly less receiver over the threads as compared to the typical 98 (1.410) receiver and barrel (1.100) combo.
THIS IS NOT A RIFLE THAT TAKES SMALL RING BARREL THREADS. THE MAJOR DIAMETER IS 1.100.
Small ring barrel shanks are .980 diameter.

By way of comparison, the G33/40 uses a small diameter ring (1.300) with a small threaded shank (.980).
A Swedish 96 Mauser has a 1.300 receiver ring and a .980 barrel shank
The (my) Turkish Mauser has a large ring (1.410) with small shank barrel threads (.980).

The magazine length, surprisingly, is 3.315 inches long, which is the 'standard' Mauser length as in the Gewehr and Kar 98k rifles or the 08 Brazilian or 09 Argentine.
The (my) Yugo M24/47 is a 'intermediate' action with a 3.232-inch magazine.

There are many options available for rechambering. Kuhnhausen warns not to turn these large thread/small ring combos into magnums. That seems clear enough.
The problem with the Polish 98 carbine is that the large shank/small ring weakens the receiver. How much? I don't know and Kuhnhausen doesn't say.

Personally, I'm not much of a gambler and wouldn't push ANY military 98 near maximum on a regular basis unless I was absolutely sure of the heat treat and integrity of the receiver and locking lugs. Call me a sissy....
I hope this clears things up a little bit and sorry for posting after this thread has died. Maybe somebody doing a search will find this useful.




(1) Mauser Bolt Rifles, Ludwig Olson, Page 187

Most if not all of the data listed comes from; "The Mauser Bolt Actions, A shop Manual", by Jerry Kuhnhausen.

[trainfever]

John,
Your points are very valid, hence the reason for my posting this thread in the first place. I still think Im going to stick with the .257 and the lower pressures. I have the Kuhnhaussen book on Mausers but I seem to have misplaced it. Hopefullly by the time I get ready to start this project, I will have found it.

If youre a sissy, then Im a sissy too. But Id rather be a live sissy then a dead gambler.

[z1r]

My Polish SR Large thread action, I turned into a 9,3x57. Perfect. The .257 Bob will be a sane choice. This is one of the few times Kuhnhausen and I really agree. Magnum=Bad! :p High pressures in Kar98 action, also bad.

[Uncle Grinch]

My Polish SR Large thread action, I turned into a 9,3x57. Perfect. The .257 Bob will be a sane choice. This is one of the few times Kuhnhausen and I really agree. Magnum=Bad! :p High pressures in Kar98 action, also bad.

Listen to what Mike (z1r) says, he has a wealth of knowledge, especially when it comes to Mausers. He may be new here, but is very active on MauserCentral and is a professional gunsmith. http://www.mccabeguns.com/

Welcome to CastBoolits Mike!

[nanuk]

is it the 0.050 extra steel around the barrel, or better steel?

[Bullshop]

I hope my thinking was not flawed on my decision to chamber a small ring Mauser (Mex I think) for a 6mm Rem AI. The idea was to get 243 performance at a lower pressure.

[John 242]

I hope my thinking was not flawed on my decision to chamber a small ring Mauser (Mex I think) for a 6mm Rem AI. The idea was to get 243 performance at a lower pressure.

Bullshop, I wish I had a good answer for you but I don't.
Not sure whether the small ring you have is a Pre-98 or 98 type action.

I was taught that small ring Pre-98 Mauser actions should be kept under 45,000 PSI. Kuhnhausen and Frank De Haas (1) more or less agree with that. Are they right? I don't know.

For some people, 45,000-PSI is too conservative. I've seen it argued that original military 7x57 ammo was quite a bit hotter and that small rings were made to take higher pressures close to 60,000 PSI.

Personally, I believe in exercising caution.
These are old, possibly abused actions with unknown heat treatment and with poor gas venting.
A 6mm Remington (not the AI) has a maximum average pressure (MAP) of about 65,000 PSI, according to SAAMI. How much lower the AI version is, I don't know. Some people, myself included, believe that shooting .308 Winchester in small ring Pre-98 rifles is a bad idea. The .308 Winchester's MAP is only 62,000-PSI. I believe that 65,000 is really pushing things.

Some small rings are exceptionally well made, especially the DWM guns. Still, after years military service and abuse by third world armies, I personally feel that staying around the 50,000-PSI mark would be a good idea, but that's just my personal opinion.


But what if you have a small ring 98 (like the Mexican Model 1910 or 1936)?
The G33/40 is also a small ring 98. De Haas says that large ring 98 actions are preferred for belted magnums and for large rimless cartridges like the .30-06. He says that the small ring 98 receivers are preferred for smaller rimless cartridges like 6mm or 7mm.
I haven't found a recommended pressure for these actions.

An important point to bear in mind is that the Model 98 has two gas ports in the bolt to vent gases downwards and a flange on the bolt sleeve to deflect gas away from the shooter, unlike most of the Pre-98 bolts (2). The 98 bolt has a safety lug at the rear, that the Pre-98 guns lack.

This is a pretty controversial subject. I'm not attacking people who think that their small ring Pre-98 is safely chambered in .308 Winchester class cartridges. To each his own.

I just wanted to to try to articulate my thoughts, hopefully in a logical way that makes sense. There are guys on here way more experienced and way more knowledgeable than I. If I am mistaken, then please set me straight. I welcome the input.


(1) Bolt Action Rifles, 4th Edtion, Frank De Haas
(2) The Swede 94/96 bolts have the gas ports, but not the flange or safety lug.

[Bullshop]

The idea I had is that yes indeed the 6mm Rem and most likely the 243 Win are normally loaded to higher pressure that what is normally accepted as safe for continuous use in a small ring.
It is also normaly accepted that the 6mm Rem because of its larger case capacity is capable of increased velocity over the 243 Win at equal pressure with equal barrel length. It then has to be accepted that the 6mm Rem can equal the velocity of the 243 Win at a lower pressure. How much lower I can not say.
With that in mind I felt/feel that going to the still larger case of the 6MM IMP. and limiting the average velocity to that of the smaller 243 Win case the pressure should be reduced still more.
It seems to be at least somewhat true judging from all the normally accepted pressure signs we read to try and determin the area of pressure a loads is working at. At the average velocity the 243 Win is capable of using several loading manuals to cross reference an average the 6mm IMP. is showing what we would consider low to moderate pressure signs using the normal indicators of pressure.
I have not tried it yet as I first wanted to try and determin the pressure area using the normal indicators but intend to as a next step use LPM primers in place of LR primers.
I do this as an aid to try and determin pressures when looking for max loads in lever guns. The LP primer seems to have roughly about a 10,000 psi reduced pressure limit so shows more clearly when you have reached the pressure area of what is considerd max for both magnum handguns and lever action rifles.
The accepted pressure area for these mag handguns and lever rifles is likely on average about 5000 psi under the 45,000 that seems to be deemed safe for a small ring mauser and well under the 50,000 that as you said some feel is OK.
That is in a nut shell is what I am trying to determin without the use of pressure equipment. If I can determin that I am getting the velocity I want which is the book average for 243 Win but do that at well below 50,000 psi and stay in the 40,000 to 45,000 range then I will have achieved my goal.
As for someone other than myself getting this rifle and shooting factory ammo in it that would seem to not be a problem. Because of the larger chamber factory ammo produces far less pressure that would be normal in the standard factory 6mm Rem chamber and the normal pressure signs do indicate so.
Anyway I am learning and having fun with it but will proceed with caution and heeding all warnings.