Old Remington auto-loader experts?

[Ragnarok]

I own a couple Remington semi-auto shotguns. The famous Model 1100...and a similiar looking older sister, a Remington Sportsman 58 12ga.(both are twelves)

I've been using the more modern 1100(it's not much newer than the 58)...but my son keeps asking about the Model 58 stashed in the gun-safe. I bought this shotgun way back in the 1970's from a older classmate needing money to buy his first car. I had to convince my mother it was a good deal...and ask 'pretty please' for a ride over to the kids house to get it bought....My father thought I paid too much..but never said so. Father himself a fan of double barrels.

Anyhow..I've had good service from my Remington 58, this old gun being my first 12ga. I used it for a decade or better as my primary hunting shotgun...but put it up for the less fussy 1100. I got lots of shotguns...and just have not needed to use the model 58.

Part of the reason I sort of retired the Sportsman 58 is because a trap-range guru told me I needed to replace the 'buffer' in my old Remington 58??...Well?...near as I can tell from parts schematics and exploded veiws...there ain't any buffer inside a Sportsman 58 shotgun!! The Remington 1100 has some plastic buffers on bolt and carrier...but I see nothing similiar inside my old 58. Closest thing is a gasket that fits in the front of the forearm..and seals the back of the barrel-ring close to the gasports...something like the 1100's o"-ring in function.

Personaly..I don't think there was ever any sort of buffer inside a Remington Sportsman 58 12ga shotgun. However I better ask(this gun was made before I was born)...Is there any sort of plastic buffer supposed to exist inside a Remington Sportman 58 shotgun??

Thanx Rag

[savage99f]

the 58 has an adjustable vent at the front of the fore grip ..if you are using HOT shells turn it to vent 3 holes light shells vent i hole ..use a flashlight to see how many holes are open ....Pat

[Ragnarok]

Yeh...I'm familiar with the gas-vent cap. I learned to keep the piston system clean...and try a shell or two with the thing set for high-brass to see if it works there before switching to the low-setting...Also learned long ago to check the gas-vent cap anytime anybody else handles the gun...check the gas-cap anytime you get ready to shoot the gun...check the gas-cap after crawling through dense brush..and just in general make sure you know where the cap is set at.

I always wished it had three settings..as I've had times when I thought an inbetween medium gas-vent might've sufficed for shells I otherwise needed the low setting for.

[richhodg66]

I ran across one of these in a local shop the other day and wondered about it. Seemed to be in good shape and they weren't asking a lot, but I wondered what differentiated it from the 1100. So, this was Remington's first attempt at an autoloader that would cycle loads of varying power?

[skeettx]

I feel sure the fella that told you to replace the buffer was thinking of
a Remington 11-48 or 48 Sportsman

Your 58 should have no issues if clean and proper ammo is used

Mike

[35remington]

Is there any plastic or nylon insert at the rear of the receiver to cushion the bolt impact? Some of my automatics, like my Super X-1, have a bolt buffer to prevent metal to metal impact. So see if that part is present. Or not.

[Ragnarok]

Is there any plastic or nylon insert at the rear of the receiver to cushion the bolt impact? Some of my automatics, like my Super X-1, have a bolt buffer to prevent metal to metal impact. So see if that part is present. Or not.

That's what I'm screaming about!...There is no such thing inside this old shotgun. No such part listed in the manual or parts list that I can see. I think the guy that warned me about the buffer deal had his models crossed...this old Remington 58 is a 'spittin image' of a Rem 1100

[Ragnarok]

I ran across one of these in a local shop the other day and wondered about it. Seemed to be in good shape and they weren't asking a lot, but I wondered what differentiated it from the 1100. So, this was Remington's first attempt at an autoloader that would cycle loads of varying power?

The Sportsman 58 works identical to a Rem 1100 as far as controls..however it has a totaly different pattern gas piston system...which the 58 has inside the front half of the mag-tube, plus has the 'recoil spring' in the tube too..has a permanant 2 shot mag capacity. Has two settings'Low'(L) or light and 'High'(H) Heavy...this pretty much will handle any 2 3/4" ammo you can find.

The 1100 wears it's gas system on the outside of the mag-tube. Has the recoil spring in tube in the butt-stock. The 1100 uses the entire mag-tube for shells..holds 4 shot-shells..no valve knob to fiddle with...

[richhodg66]

Interesting. I've never owned an autoloading shotgun before, and always wondered how well any of them would work with the large variety of power levels in shells out there.

[Ragnarok]

Lots of good semi-autos out there. Some hoops to jump through for some to work tho'...like the Browning A5 has friction ring adjustments for various loads and a three inch chambered A5 probably won't work with the lightest 2 3/4" loads..The Remington 1100 came in 2 3/4" and three inch versions too. May as well forget light loads in a three inch version as it will be a manually operated gun. I had owned a Browning B2000 that came with a 2 3/4" barrel and a 3" barrel..this system worked great!..I was an idiot to trade-off my B2000

Technology has marched on...I bought my son a Stoeger M2000 12ga..after some required break-in shooting(for the inertia spring) it will run most 2 3/4" and 3" shells without issue(or barrel swapping...friction ring setting...gas-valve adjust..etc). The gunmakers are making excellent guns these days that will handle the lightest loads up to the big 3.5" shot-shells

The older gen guns like my Sportsman 58 and others can work well...but can also be plum worn-out!! My Remington 1100 is reaching a point where it's going to need an overhaul soon...I believe it was made in 1967 or 1969 and was well used when I got it...and I've hammered it hard myself. I need to replace the mainspring and the buffers...I got a spare o' ring or two here. That's one reason I was trying to find info if a Rem 58 had any buffers internaly...I'm going to fix-up my 1100..and would get parts for the 58 too...however I don't think there's any plastic buffers involved with my Sportsman 58. And really my Sportsman 58, although older than my 1100..is really better shape(quite a bit better shape as far as use/abuse).

[richhodg66]

Not really related to the Model 58, but when did they come up with the 3" 12 gauge load? It's been around as long as I can remember, but there do seem to be a lot of shotguns around that are for 2 3/4" only (my Ithaca 37s). Anyone know when these came about?

[Ragnarok]

Not really related to the Model 58, but when did they come up with the 3" 12 gauge load? It's been around as long as I can remember, but there do seem to be a lot of shotguns around that are for 2 3/4" only (my Ithaca 37s). Anyone know when these came about?

That's a good question..and something I've pondered myself..

I do know that the 3.5" shot-shell came into being in about 1988....I also know that some of the really old guns made for the brass shells have short chambers...a lot of European shotguns have really short chambers too...too short for standard US 2 3/4" ammo...these I guess being 2 1/2" guns and I've seen 2.5" ammo for these Euro guns and antique guns.

I have also seen ancient pics of really long brass shot-shells from the market hunting days. I also have a couple old side-hammer guns that have chambers every bit as long as a modern 3" chamber...one of these is a Colt 1878 that can be dated by serial number to 1881...the other gun is a old 'Hartford Fire Arms'(made by Crescent) which probably dates to the the 1890's-1910's time-frame....I always thought it odd that these old guns had such long chambers when presumably most older pre-1900 shotguns had 2 1/2" chambers..I've measured chambers in antique guns that were 2 1/2"(these dangerous because a 2.5" chambered gun will take a modern 2 3/4" shell fine...but doesn't have enough room for the crimp to unfold..a potential bomb combined with rotton Damascus/twist steel barrels!!..bad enough in modern steel barrels!)

I have a 1966 publiched shooter's bible that lists 3" shells...I know some guns in the late 1950's were 3" chambered(including a magnum version of my Sportsman 58)

I have no real facts to back it up...but I think the 3" 12ga may have existed as far back as the 1870's/1880's....I also think the 2 3/4" shells we all take for granted today are maybe an evolution of the old all brass 2.5" shells into the more modern paper and plastic hulls and modern wadding...these needing a bit more chamber to fold out into than the old brass shells with a simple top-card to keep the shot in.

Really not much info that I could ever find on the origins of the 12ga 3" shells...or other gauge 3" shells for that matter. No real info I could ever dredge up on the beginnings/origin of the modern 2 3/4" either.

We need a good and proper shotgunning guru with some history books to grill for info!!

[richhodg66]

I only have one shotgun that'll handle the 3", a Winchester 1300 which I don't really like all that much and haven't shot a lot. Good enough gun and is big and heavy with a stock that'll absorb recoil. I don't turkey or waterfowl hunt, so coyotes and such are about the only thing I'd ever use a load like that on.

I really need to get more into shotgunning, I live in some great upland bird and waterfowl area, just haven't gotten into either one much yet.

[autoloadingsportsman58]

In reply to the original question from Ragnaork concerning his Sportsman 58. The 58 did not come from the factory with a bolt buffer. If they did it would have been very late production, perhaps after the 1100 came out. Mr. Snoap, the 58 Sportman, carries a bolt buffer. This installs in the drilled hole at the very back of the receiver. You must shorten the end of the firing pin if you install one. I have used them in two 12 gauge models with no problems. I have never seen this, but I have read that the Sportsman 58 receiver could crack at the end of the bolt handle slot. Must have been true as the 1100 came with the stress relieving slot milled into this location. That is the fix for a 58 if it cracks there as well. The buffer is supposed to correct this. I like the 58 but it is not as reliable as my 11-87, but is lighter and has less weight up front. The 58 points great.

[yodeler123]

I actually stumbled on this thread because I'm looking for a replacement buffer for my sportsman 58 12 gauge. I found out it had a buffer when I couldnt get the action to cycle. I pulled the 2 trigger housing pins and there it was, floating around. My buffer is hard and won't stay put in the hole milled in the receiver

[skeettx]

Hello yodeler123
Welcome on your first post

I would suggest that you look here :)

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Remington-33454/Shotguns-37896/SPT58-41231.htm

Mike

[Duckiller]

3" 12 ga predate WWII. Had an uncle that used a 3" Model 12 to hunt foxes prior to WWII. Getting ammo was no easy matter. Gun stores were careful who they sold the 3" shell to. Afraid hunters of the day would use them in 2 3/4" guns to shoot longer distances. At that time max load for 2 3/4" was 1 1/4 oz. 3" max was 1 5/8 oz. The 1 5/8oz load is still very effective.

[ROGER4314]

I remember the Remington 58's with the adjustable selector on the forward end. I can't recall if I owned one but I sure shot a few of them. It's not a bad shotgun at all!

Regarding the "buffer", I've done that job on my older 1100's. The buffer is mounted in the rear of the bolt, costs $4 and it's easy to install. You knock out the retaining pin, & dig out the old one, install the new buffer and make certain that the firing pin is clear of the drill bit, then drill the buffer for the retaining pin. I believe it takes a #26 drill bit. Knock the retaining pin in and you're done!

Flash

[wv109323]

Google Sportsman58. There is a gentleman that deals with the 11-48 and 58 shotguns exclusively. He is the go to man for these shotguns.
The 3" 12 gauge was not real common until the 1960's. The demand caused by turkey hunting and waterfowl required a magnum round. The technology to make a dependable auto shotgun for 2 3/4,3 and 3 1/2" shells is about 30 years old.
The 16 gauge was the last gauge to convert to 2 3/4" chambers. That was around 1920. The standard for the 16 gauge was 2 9/16. There was Model 12 Winchester's made with the 2 9/16" chamber.
The older 12 gauge standard was 2 1/2".