Is 2400 in rifle dirty???

[abunaitoo]

I've tried the 16gr of 2400 in some rifles and found it to be very dirty. Worse than Unique.
Is it just that way, or do I need to do something else?????

[Char-Gar]

Aarrghhhhh! If you don't want to deal with powder residue then take up air gun shooting!

2400 is on of the best cast bullet powders on the market and I see no reason why you should not use it.

I don't get this obsession with dirty vs. clean powder. I truly don't get it. Wash you hands like your mother taught you and clean your rifle if the powder residue bothers you.

[Scrounger]

Just like with any other powder, if you don't use enough to generate a certain pressure level, it won't burn well. Go up half a grain at a time until it burns clean; If that generates too much velocity for you, go to a little faster powder, start low and work up to the clean burn point. Have you ever wondered why there are so many different powders on the market?

[NVcurmudgeon]

I use 16.0 X 2400 in .30/40, .30/06, 7.65 X 53 Argentine, and .303 British, and 18.0 X 2400 in 7 X 57. The .30/.31 calibers with Lyman 314299 (200 gr.) and the 7 X 57 with Lyman 287308 (162 gr.) All are accurate, non leading, and seldom do the bores get cleaned. Notice that all my loads use boolits that are heavy for the caliber. Could you be using light boolits and not generating enough pressure to burn the powder efficiently?

[Bret4207]

Sometimes it's pretty dirty for me. Applying some more crimp helps, so does a filler but a heavy bullet and/or loading into the leade usually works better for me.

[robertbank]

Thank-you for that. I was beginning to think I was the only guy on the planet that saw it that way. Heck the lube on my cast boolits accounts for most of the gunk in my handguns anyway.

Take Care

Bob
ps 20 gr 2400 under my 311291 boolit gives me >1/2" groups at 100 yds with my Husqavarna.

[9.3X62AL]

Powder residue doesn't bug me--I use Goex in front-loaders, so I have a tolerant mindset for such side-effects. Still, as Scrounger says--it is a "flag" saying that combustion could be better.

Heavy-for-caliber boolits and leade engagement help A LOT. The 95 grain 243 boolit and 100 grain 250 Savage boolit shoot quite clean with 12.0 x 2400, and do accurate work.

[35remington]

Chargar gets a +1 from me, too.

For me, the less than 100% complete burning often means accuracy.

Low pressures are being generated that means the cast boolit is being treated gently. Many of my loads using 2400 are "most likely to succeed" in many different guns because of this characteristic, which is a personal choice in how I load 2400.

I agree that 2400 can be as clean burning as anything else. When it is not I am often happier than if it left the barrel spotless.

[abunaitoo]

Being that some powders seem to keep the barrel cleaner, would that indicate a more complete burn?????
Would a heavier bullet, or tighter crimp, allow the pressure to increase to give a more complete burn??????
No matter what load I used with Unique, there always seemed to be lots of unburned puwder in the barrel. Same with 2400. When I tried Blue Dot, it was as clean as can be.
Blue Dot is slower than Unique and faster than 2400.
Cleaning the barrel is not a problem. I do it after every outting. I'm just wondering why all the unburnt powder??????

[Char-Gar]

Well boys, I am getting old and crotchty... The shorthorns tour the various internet board with their plantiff requests for a cleaner burning powder. All that matters is how well the bullets play follow the leader to the target! Clean you rifles and wash your Da*& hands!!!

I shoot a thousand rounds a year of Wolf Rooski 45 ACP hardball in my 1911s and that is that stuff really is dirty. I still shoot it because it is cheap, reliable and accurate and...you guessed it...I wash my hands and clean my pistol. I wash my hands and clean my pistol ever time I shoot it, regardless of what ammo goes in the chamber and down the tube. I don't feel diminished in the eyes of God nor man for having to do so!!!

I repeat..Aarrhhgggg!!!

[Bret4207]

Being that some powders seem to keep the barrel cleaner, would that indicate a more complete burn?????
Would a heavier bullet, or tighter crimp, allow the pressure to increase to give a more complete burn??????
No matter what load I used with Unique, there always seemed to be lots of unburned puwder in the barrel. Same with 2400. When I tried Blue Dot, it was as clean as can be.
Blue Dot is slower than Unique and faster than 2400.
Cleaning the barrel is not a problem. I do it after every outting. I'm just wondering why all the unburnt powder??????

There are several things that can give a more complete burn. But, there's always a but, even with a heavy boolit jammed into the lands you still may not get a clean barrel. Although I like the idea of all my expensive powder burning too, as Chargar said, it's accuracy that counts. You can play around with crimp, OAL to put the boolit into the leade, heavy boolits and even magnum primers. If you find a good clean burning load please report back,. At least we'll know what worked for you.

[9.3X62AL]

Abunaitoo--

If the load is accurate, I don't sweat the powder residue in the bore. The front drive band makes a pretty good dirt scraper, and the spin imparted by the rifling to the boolit slings the residue right smartly. What you are seeing in the bore is the trash from ONLY the most recent shot, unless something is radically wrong. If your powder residue is fouling out the bore, you'll know by looking at the target--sideways boolit strikes and whirring sounds as they cartwheel downrange. To date after 30+ years of shooting and reloading, I have only had powder residue foul out one bore. Lead residue? Well, a few. In either case, it won't be a secret once you glimpse the target.

I can see a difficulty with self-loading rifle and pistol actions--but other than the example I cited, powder trash is mostly a cosmetic condition that might (or might not) indicate a combustion issue. As casters, we use a lot of powders well outside their intended performance envelope. Part of the game, to me.

[MT Gianni]

Al, Charger, Bret, some very well written comments here. To me it comes down to why do I shoot? Do I want the tightest group I can get or just to dirty a barrell and make some noise. If my best efforts were with a powder that I had to scrape out each time but performed better than anything else by far I would use it. As things are now I consider cost, replaceability as well as accuracy and can live with a plinking powder that groups 2"-2 1/2" if I am shooting at rocks @ 300 yards. If i want to know what I can do and what my gun can do it is accuracy pure and simple. If it leads I clean and change alloy or pressure, if it's dirty it gets wiped. Gianni.

[Newtire]

Abunaitu,

I have experienced dirty burning IMR 4227 in my M1 carbine and it was really a bother as it was leaving little dents in the cases. I upped the charge 1 gr. as I was running light anyway and this took care of my problem. I hear the Vhitavouri stuff is pretty clean burning but if a powder doesn't leave dents in my cases or jam up my gun, I don't worry about it. I use alot of Unique and 2400 and can't say it's any dirtier than anything else but then I don't really pay that much attention if something is working good. I also crimp auto rifle loads and revolver loads with the Lee Factory Crimp. lIke someone said already, the lube is about the messiest stuff.

[1Shirt]

Charger and I would get along pretty well I think both being old, crotchity, and set in our ways. I don't find current 2400 to be very dirty at all. The old stuff of 10 plus years ago was quite dirty. However like a lot of others say, heavy blt, and tight crimp usually minimize that anyhow. Besides, I tumble clean my cases after I deprime them anyway. And like charger says, I wash my hands after I am playing with cast. Getting a little dirty and grimey at the range is all part of the game. Once heard that the smell of a man is gunoil and Hoppy's #9. That's probably a bit outdated now, but the idea isn't all that bad!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Newtire]

Getting a little dirty and grimey at the range is all part of the game. Once heard that the smell of a man is gunoil and Hoppy's #9. That's probably a bit outdated now, but the idea isn't all that bad!
1Shirt!:coffee:

Hoppes #9 is really nice when going out to a fancy restaurant or awards presentation type thing but real men use alox.

[Bob S]

I've been shooting 15-16 grains of 2400 with 311291 in 30-06 since 1965, and I have never observed it to be "dirtier" than anything else.

Resp'y,
Bob S.