296,2400,H110,H4227,? for .44 Mag 1894

[JesterGrin_1]

have seen a few here post about the usage of the 296 as well as the other powders that have been mentioned. But I do not understand why any of the loadings I have found for these powders mention Lead Rounds and just Jacketed rounds for the powder usage?

I hope a few can enlighten me as to why this would be?

I am leaning heavily towards doing some loads with the 296 with a 240gr RNFP for my 1894 Marlin SS.

[Bass Ackward]

Multitudes of reasons for this. Take 296. There was a big controversy a few decades ago not to reduce charges of H-110 or 296 as dangerous pressures would result.

Most people think of cast bullets as reduced load or practice rounds. So as far as the industry goes, putting the two together may invite disaster.

All bunk though as long as you stay above the starting level charge listed for it in the manuals for the correct weight slugs.

[Bret4207]

The powders you listed are for full house loads, more or less. Most of the powder companies consider cast boolits to be "plinkers" and provide low and slow loads with appropriate powders. For full throtle loads with the powders you listed, pick a jacketed bullet of nearly same weight as your cast boolit and start there.

[NVcurmudgeon]

For (seldom used) loads approaching maximum I use 2400 with RCBS 240 GC or RCBS 245 SWC. If I wanted the very last fps, I would use 296 or H 110, but with an eight lb. can of 2400 sitting on the shelf for my various bottleneck rifles, I use what I have. For easy does it loads 7.0 gr. of Green Dot delivers 1200 fps (24") and 920 fps (8 3/8") with good accuracy and all-day enjoyment.

[JesterGrin_1]

Thank You all for the information. I guess my mistake is that I have been reading lol. Some places say to use a soft lead bullet so that when it is fired it will fill the bore and cause less leading. Than if you use too soft of a powder charge the gas will not push the bullet to engage the whole of the rifling and thus cause it to have pressure leakage past the bullet and cause leading. And if the bullet is too soft and try and push it too fast than it will actually skip the rifling of the barrel and cause excessive leading. So I have also read that if you use a Hard Cast Bullet then you can push it at magnum velocities.

What did draw me towards the powders mentioned is that the CUP is lower with the slower burning powders yet will have a substantial speed increase over the faster powders such as Unique and Tightgroup of which I am using.

So in the end I think I will try loads with my Tightgroup since I have a good amount lol.

[Bret4207]

Look through some of the posts here as far as alloy/velocity/etc. Many of us push 240-260 gr 44 boolits at magnums velocities using straight WW alloy. You don't say if your mould is a GC version or PB. With plain base you'll probably have a harder time getting high speed regardless of powder. I'd say you need to do some more research since you not only want magnum velocity, but you're also dealing with a Micro-groove barrel, at least I think you are. There's no reason to go to a super hard booilt if you have a decent fitting boolit, +.002-.003 if the throat will take it, a cast friendly barrel and decent loading technique. Search around here a bit, especially in the leverguns area for info. I'm no expert on the Marlin MG loading techniques but i know they want a big, well fitting boolit.

[JesterGrin_1]

They will be PB with a Ballard cut barrel.

[Bret4207]

With PB you'll have to work to get over 1200 or so without some leading. There's guys here with lots more info on this than I have. Try a slower powder and make sure it's as big as the throat will handle. You might try water quenching the WW boolits right from the mould.

[Boomer Mikey]

6.4 grains of Titegroup and any 240 grain plain base bullet with WLP primers.
This is around 1100 fps in my 20" carbines and 24" rifles. I can go as high as 7.5 grains before I get leading at the 1200 - 1400 fps area. I would start at 5 grains and work up. Max load is 10 grains. Good load data is available here :

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp


With plain base bullets, bullet fit and bore conditions (smooth without major constrictions) will be the deciding factor. Use the largest bullet diameter that will chamber reliably. Some of my rifles require 0.434" minimum size bullets!

Air cooled WW alloy at BHN 11-14 is fine for bores in good condition and water quenched WW + 2% tin for rough bores.

The 6.4 grain Titegroup load with Bear Creek 240 grain SWC's and a heavy profile crimp has been an accurate load in every 44 I own.

Have Fun!

Boomer :Fire:

[JesterGrin_1]

So from what I understand my try out loads of 240gr RNFP with 9.8Gr of Tightgroup and either a CCI-300 Primer Or Rem 2 1/2 Primers will be a bit too hot?

I did try 5.5Gr of Tightgroup and well at 100 yards they dropped like a lead rock lol.

I do not have WW lead but I do have pure lead. And thought I would add some 50/50 solder bar to the mix and drop them in water?

[singleshotbuff]

Not sure, but I don't think pure lead + solder will harden when water dropped. WWs water quench good because of trace amounts of other things like antimony and arsenic. At least this has been my understanding, I'm by NO MEANS an exspurt on alloys.

If this is the case, consider trading some of your pure lead for WWs. Muzzleloader shooters are always on the look out for pure lead, myself included.

SSB

[JesterGrin_1]

Well I have the pure lead since I was shooting a Quigley Sharps in 45-70 so you want it pretty soft. But I am new to the lead game so I am reading and trying to understand like a Mad Man lol. But I am starting to laugh like Renfield lol He He He He. Spiders give me Spiders lol. Sorry lost it for a moment lol. :)

[Four Fingers of Death]

The little Winchester reloading flyers we always get here for free in te gunshops always listed lead and jacketed. The load for lead was actually one grain more, but I used the jacketed load as my Lee auto disk won't load the bigger charge and believe me in a 5.5" steenking pistola, you know thats it has gone off believe me. On a cold morning, it was like getting the cane at school :D

I remember the loads, but am reluctant to give them to you without double checking the info. If you want it PM me and I will dig it out.

Elmer's recomended load of 22 Gns of 240 was pretty flash as wel, but a lot more genteel than the 296 load, It is one big balled load :D

[MtGun44]

Pure lead plus solder will not harden when water dropped.

Bill

[26Charlie]

These full-house loads have worked very well for me: .44 Mag cases, standard large pistol primers, bullets cast from range scrap or wheel weights, sized .430, not hardened; loads are as follows -

250 gr. Keith SWC with 22.5 gr H-110. My all-time favorite load, 1350 fps in revolvers.

240 gr. GC 24.0 gr. WW 296 or H-110. Primarily used in rifles, as 296 seems to produce more muzzle flash than H-110 in revolvers.

250 gr. Keith SWC or GC with 12.0 gr. 800-X. General purpose load, about 1150 fps in revolvers.

I have not found leading to be a problem in any of these loads, whether plain base or gas check; pure lead with bar solder added for the tin should work OK also.

I have not used much 2400 in the .44 Mag due to lots of blast and flash in the loads I have tried, but I do use it in the .357 Mag at 14.0 gr. with 160 gr. SWC bullets.

Found two 8 oz. cans of Alcan AL-8 in my powder supply which have been there for about 45 years (price on them was $1.90 per can) so decided to use them up with .44 Mag loads. In my records 18.0 gr was the charge with the 250 gr. Keith SWC, so my ammo stash will have about 600 rounds of .44 with this load. I sighted the .44 revolvers to hit on at 50 yards with it. I doubt if this powder is available any more, but if you come across any it can be used in the .44 Magnum.