Drones Large and Small Coming to US

[Phoenix]

FYI.

http://news.yahoo.com/drones-large-small-coming-us-010537668.html

and

http://news.yahoo.com/faa-takes-step-toward-widespread-us-drone-flights-084526269--politics.html

The one from the sheriffs department says "step back 100ft" on the side of it

Not happy about this at all.

[dakotashooter2]

The issue right now is airspace. The FAA doesn't want unmanned vehicles in publicly used airspace.... for good reason........ Untill they get those issues worked out only the military will be allowed to use drones in public airspace and even then with some restrictions.

[Phoenix]

The second article I linked kind of says they are already doing that. And notice the picture of a sheriffs dept drone sitting there. I think this is much closer than you might think.

[Phoenix]

I would seriously think twice about putting those in the air in rural areas. Can you say target practice.

[Jim]

Being watched from the air ain't much different from being watched by a deputy with binos from his cruiser parked on the road.

I'm not sure I'd wanna' take a pot shot at a drone. Those things are equipped with powerful cameras and unless you were fully disguised or concealed, it's likely you'd be on the camera if it were recovered from a crash.

I would imagine a drone has a 'black box' type of device that would record the lat/lon coordinates of it's location at the instant something went south with the craft. I wouldn't want the coordinates of my property recorded at the instant of an engine failure.

The way I see it, I ain't doin' nothin' wrong an' they can watch me all they want. I might even smile and wave.

[Love Life]

I guess it is time to put an open air outhouse in the yard. It'll give them something to look at...

[runfiverun]

these things could be used for search and rescue efforts.
but i'm sure the F&G will figure out a way to use them to make some money.

[Jim]

I guess it is time to put an open air outhouse in the yard. It'll give them something to look at...

That's hilarious! I can just imagine a photo of a guy sittin' on his throne, pants down around his ankles an' wavin' with a big smile on his face!

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

what might the appropriate caliber be for one of these birds?

[Charlie Two Tracks]

We are being recorded a lot more than we think. Private cameras are on many businesses and homes. Just look at the news and we get pictures of criminal conduct and those cameras don't just show the business, they show anything that goes within range. Google earth, just put in your address and then zoom in to street level. You can see what car you had in the drive. I would imagine that the government has much better equipment than google earth. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Just the way it is now a days.

[Phoenix]

Being watched from the air ain't much different from being watched by a deputy with binos from his cruiser parked on the road.

It is alot different when you live somewhere that they have no option to watch you from a cruiser. I live miles down a private road. and more than a mile from my locked gate. Huge difference there.



The way I see it, I ain't doin' nothin' wrong an' they can watch me all they want. I might even smile and wave.

I am going against my better judgement here. This statement is akin to saying that gun registration is nothing to worry about if you aren't doing anything wrong. My right to an expectation of privacy on my private land is not subject to the "if you are not doing anything wrong" argument. Our rights are protected explicitly and not subject to the "you must be doing something wrong if you care" argument. The problem is the first statement breeds the second. I am not saying you are saying that but in more than one LEO in the country that is what it means. I knew a few.

[Phoenix]

We are being recorded a lot more than we think. Private cameras are on many businesses and homes. Just look at the news and we get pictures of criminal conduct and those cameras don't just show the business, they show anything that goes within range. Google earth, just put in your address and then zoom in to street level. You can see what car you had in the drive. I would imagine that the government has much better equipment than google earth. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Just the way it is now a days.

I like living in the country because I am not subject to the irritation of this exact thing. I live here partly because I refuse to give in to the 'just the way it is" concept. Google earth doesnt say anything about me. No street view (private road) no neighbors for over a mile. Off the grid so not going to find many cameras at all for 15 miles or more. I am a rarity compared to most. It is catching up slowly. Still too fast for my liking.

[quilbilly]

Last week, the hard core leftists and the American Communist Lawyers Union in Seattle forced the city to not accept the drones in Seattle even after the city accepted the federal grant to buy them. Let them fight the battle for us. At least they have the press on their side.

[smoked turkey]

I hate the thought of survelliance on my property by ANYBODY. I can think of persons who could benefit from knowing when my home if vacant and unprotected by my wife with a double barrel shotgun (Biden speak ofcourse).

[MtGun44]

I'm thinking the smaller ones would be about perfect with a 12 ga.

Bill

[41 mag fan]

Drones would be no different than the cameras you see all over England. Theres too much land here to have a camera everywhere, so drones is their answer.


I hate the thought of survelliance on my property by ANYBODY. I can think of persons who could benefit from knowing when my home if vacant and unprotected by my wife with a double barrel shotgun (Biden speak ofcourse).

Ya knowing you're luck, you'll be gone, a burglar breaks in, your wife sticks the (biden approved) double barrel out the window, lets off both barrels, and shoots down the drone that was flying over. Not only then have you got burglarized, you got federal peons throwing you in jail for shooting down one of their "eyes in the sky"!!!
You'll have to drop to your knees in front of the obama/biden thrones and ask for forgiveness, for following the biden proclamation!!

[gray wolf]

Well the not doing anything wrong is a week argument, perhaps in a different life time but not this one. What if your wife was in the shower and some ******* was having a look ?
Hey, she ain't doing anything wrong---right ?---wrong !
Take the guns, cameras every place you look, while they look, drones in the air, lap top cameras that can watch you, track and trace. How in the world can anyone look at any of this and make excuses for it ? , or justify it ? You my friends are the enemy, like it or not, they will control every single aspect of every single person on this little blue marble, and they have a good head start. Oh, it's for the children, how silly of me to think otherwise. The whole dam thing is WAAAAy out of control way out. We are dealing with a bunch of sick, perverted, control freaks that are winning there little battle as we speak. For now any way.

[41 mag fan]

Been that way since man began Sam.

[xs11jack]

I like the open air outhouse idea. Too bad the drones don't have microphones, you could hollar " Bring toilet paper, bring clean drawers, bring Pepto Bismo", or make up your own lines. Oh, here is another idea, do you remember the excuse drunks that ran into the ditch use, Officer, a brown dog jump out in front of me! Well, when the drone flies over, take it out with a shotgun and claim, Officer didn't you see the pheasant that I shot at?? Or duck, or Quail, or whatever.
Jack

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Phoenix, you're on there man. Try Google Earth and try to find the most isolated place in the US. It will still show you if a car is in the driveway. I just zoomed in on a little place in the boonies of Montana. And remember, this is google earth not the more sophisticated military ones. We are already being watched.

[Jim]

Y'all must know something I don't. I just left Google Earth and the image date is 10/24/2011. I made changes to the road leading to my house last year and they don't show.

A coupla' years back, I looked for a site with real time satellite image data. I found a few, but you had to pay for access.

How are y'all getting real time images on Google Earth?

[Baron von Trollwhack]

HAH ! They just send a drone now to check out your cows. Gate be darned ! Now isn't that so?

BvT

[Phoenix]

How are y'all getting real time images on Google Earth?

They arnt, Google pays for access to satellite imagery not the satelite itself. It is never realtime on google earth. I have a few engineering firms on my client list. All the images they use for GIS are Flyover shots that they have to put together. it is never perfect. Google earth is terrible quality compared to what they have. Still not realtime. Unless you are on the FBI, CIA, SS, or NYC hot list you can forget them using realtime satelite. Even the sites that claim to be reatime usually only have windows of opportunity. and it is expensive.

[elkhuntfever]

As far as airspace, the minimum height AGL (above ground level) for small manned aircraft is 400 feet so these can certainly operate under that with no problem.

[Wayne Smith]

It's a huge privacy rights issue. Let the libs fight it. We actually agree with them on something!

[gkainz]

actually, FAR 91.119 — Minimum safe altitudes: General. says
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.

so, given part (c) I can fly lower than 500 AGL ... except for the pesky definition of "sparsely populated" areas ...
of course, the rub is the definition of "sparsely populated" areas.

And, is a drone an "aircraft"? The regs don't differentiate between manned and remotely-piloted for minimum safe altitude operation...

[Phoenix]

And, is a drone an "aircraft"? The regs don't differentiate between manned and remotely-piloted for minimum safe altitude operation...

I am not convinced it is. I have and had seven different RC helicopters over the years. One is the largest, a bell jet ranger. with 8ft rotor span. It is really big. I have flown them all over the place. I have been to Fly-ins for Helos that were in Athletic fields for schools. 100s of rc helos in a high school back yard. I am not convinced they need anything for hovering craft. If they do, it is splitting hairs because there are 1000s of those all over the country operating in peoples back yards. There is a big difference between flying one for fun and flying one to spy on others. I believe you deserve to find a pile of demolished parts of you are spying.

Sadly I don't fly them anymore. They are all hanging in a relative's garage. Too windy here most of the time anyway.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I did not mean real time. I'm saying that they can see your place and what you've got on it. Put up a gun range and eventually it will show up. Plant something you ain't supposed to and it will show up. You don't know when that ole camera will go flying over.

[dakotashooter2]

My son was involved in developing payloads and equipment for drones in his last year of college. The ONLY place they were allowed to fly their drone was in restricted air space over a national guard camp.................

[phonejack]

A drone is not any different than a RC airplane or helicopter that has a miniture camera looking forward. What are the restictions for those ? Should be the same ?

[perotter]

Build a DIY drone that has some marking on it that look "offical". Then use it to harass the public in general. Chase people or pets, spray water, bark out orders, etc with them. The public complaining will put an end to them being around.

[backroad]

I think i,ll still pee outside

[Blammer]

38 cal RB out of a sling shot may be fun, heck a stiff load of 00 should bring it down too. then quick run over kill the homing device and take it for parts.... :)

all you'd have to do is let one of them spinning blades hit it and it's gonna be done for.

[Blammer]

radio jammer or run the same frequency and make it crash

[41 mag fan]

I think i,ll still pee outside

Me and you both. Heck I pee off the front deck or off the back. Had some shrubs 10 yrs ago off front deck. Hated those things, wife liked them. Wouldn't let me tear them out. 2 yrs later they were both brown and dead.
took a leak on them everyday and it finally killed them!!

[Jammersix]

I can live with them.

[400short]

There's an article in March Nat'l Geo mag about drones. Apparently the Throne has directed the FAA to open all domestic airspace to them by 9/30/15.

[archmaker]

Yeah, i remember when the Sherriff department here purchased the drone pictured. The reason makes sense, as they were able to scale back their helicopter usage and need. They used it once if i remember right on SAR effort. And for some other events where they were wanted to see the lay of the land, (most of county is rural/suburban, along with part of National forrest) ie before making a raid on some marijuana growing in a field and making sure it still there.

Also there are small aircraft (think hobby) where people are attaching their phone and streaming the video back to their laptop. It is not only the government that is watching you.

[1Shirt]

George Orwell would have loved drones!!!!
1Shirt!

[archmaker]

Two years ago at DefCon in Vegas they did a short demo of some hackers who had built a model airplane, outfitted it with streaming video, and wireless card. They were able to fly over building and gather wireless traffic from businesses that had fences and security. And the whole thing could be controlled from anywhere in the world via internet. You could stream the wireless traffic to servers around the world, crack the traffic, and then using the same 'drone' hack into the business. They didn't say that, but . . . you know it.

So the government doing drones . . . doesn't bother me. A 'model airplane' with a 1/2 lb of HE, controlled by a foreign government and flown into a crowd of US citizens does, think about how cheaply that could be done.

[km101]

They can watch when/where ever they want. They are not going to see anything I dont want them to see! :)

[popper]

If I remember rightly, Israel was using model airplane drones with cameras in the 60s. US gov thought it was stupid. They also did strip searches before boarding commercial flights. We have a machine now to do strip searches (actually had it in 80). Are we behind the curve or what?

[shooter2]

This is a damned slippery slope and I, for one, do not like it. Just one more loss of rights. We've already lost the 4th Amendment and the Feds can write a search warrant on a slip of paper W/O a judges consent. The 2nd is under constant attack. The list goes on...

[Jammersix]

Hyperbole does not serve us. To get where we want to go, we must know, accurately, where we are.

We are gaining rights regarding weapons. We are not losing them.

[historicfirearms]

I'm a commercial airplane pilot and my job is to fly surveillance patrols for pipeline right-of-ways. It is done at low altitude, about 500-800' above ground level. There are a few things I want to share about all this drone talk.

The first is, I don't want any unmanned junk in my airspace. It is very difficult and dangerous flying a manned aircraft at low altitude. Pilots rely on each other to visually see other aircraft, as well as communicate via radio their positions. Technology also helps out if your aircraft is equipped with tcas or radar services from atc. These help in congested areas but in the end, it's up to the pilots to see and avoid while in visual meteorological conditions. Throw in unmanned drones into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster. I know the government understands this, which is really frightening. I speculate the days of general aviation are limited if drones are allows into service, especially no more VFR flights without a flight plan.

The other point I want to make is that the drone is really just a different use of existing technology. They can do the same exact thing now with manned aircraft. There is a nudist colony on one of my routes and in the summer time I get a show if I want it. Drones may eventually be a cheaper way to surveil and make us all subject to 24/7 big brother at low altitudes. For now they will have to rely on very high altitude surveillance from satellites. Go ahead, put on your tinfoil hats.

[TXGunNut]

So the government doing drones . . . doesn't bother me. A 'model airplane' with a 1/2 lb of HE, controlled by a foreign government and flown into a crowd of US citizens does, think about how cheaply that could be done. -archmaker


Uh-oh. Willing to bet a very similar scenario is in our future.
Not too worried about the Big Brother aspect until you get to the "Our Tax Dollars at Work" angle. Never ceases to amaze me how hard some folks work to find ways to spend my tax money.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hyperbole does not serve us. To get where we want to go, we must know, accurately, where we are.

We are gaining rights regarding weapons. We are not losing them.

That's the irony - we are doing both: gaining and losing firearms rights. There was a good article, I think in the Rifleman a few years ago, talking about how "we" were down to just 3-4 states with no CCW, and the NRA had been very successfully pushing that agenda around the country. In a small snippet/counter-point at the end, they also mentioned how during that same time the GOPA was passed (which had both good and bad) and Brady was passed in 1994. The caution was that the gun rights groups cannot get overly-focused on CCW, while losing sight of classes of guns being banned or severely restricted, as had been happening.

As far as the OP question, it is a very disconcerting issue. On one hand, the Supreme Court ruled a LONG time ago, that any illegal activity or contraband "in plain view" was admissable and not a violation of the 4th Amendment. The drones are only giving another perspective to look from, so cover/hide your stuff... My barn might have a swing-open window with a bench inside which I might shoot from, aiming at a target butt made of RR ties that might have an awning over it. If I set up some egg-shell foam in a tube to shoot through, it might be difficult, if not impossible, to know that I might be shooting down there, either from a sight or sound perspective...

If and when I build my final home, it will have an underground shooting tunnel accessed from the basement with propper sound deadening material.

[smokemjoe]

looking for moonshiners

[uscra112]

The other point I want to make is that the drone is really just a different use of existing technology. They can do the same exact thing now with manned aircraft. There is a nudist colony on one of my routes and in the summer time I get a show if I want it. Drones may eventually be a cheaper way to surveil and make us all subject to 24/7 big brother at low altitudes. For now they will have to rely on very high altitude surveillance from satellites. Go ahead, put on your tinfoil hats.

Right. The real concern is not that the aircraft are drones, but that the software they're now beginning to use to analyze aerial surveillance of every sort can store so much imagery and can do automatic image analysis to track what an individual is doing in his backyard. Heck, they already do this with cameras in cities that track every license plate. You think they're not data-mining every satellite image? Forget the platform, fear the computers.

[Mike in TX]

DIY drone. Been to several sites and hopefully will have one ready this summer.

[Denny303]

Its hard to fathom what it has come down to, if your a gun owner you are persecuted, if you believe in traditional American Christian and family values your categorized a right wing religious extremist, if you believe in the constitution and the duty to defend it, you fall under the right wing patriot movement category. If you don't believe in all the popular moral decay that's being condoned and forced upon us in this country, your deemed as closed minded, backward, and a intolerant part of a hate group. If you believe in the values that our ancestors fought and died for, and the principals this country was built upon, it appears that you are in the same category as those our brave soldiers are fighting abroad. Its no surprise that drones and surveillance would be the next step.