Trying the Lyman #311041

[fatelvis]

I just casted a bunch of very nice 311041 bullets, using my new mould, and WW+(a little) 95/5 solder. I loaded up some new brass with 'em, using the crimping groove as my guage to correct length, but when I chamber them, the nose is heavily engraved with the rifling from my 1948 Marlin 30-30. I sized/lubed these to .311". Are these safe to shoot using 15.0 grns of 2400? Thanks-

[725]

Anytime you shove the bullet into the rifling, you are starting to create an obstructed bore situation. Inital pressures raise higher & faster until foreward movement of the bullet occurs. Precision shooters approach this very cautiously when they do load right to the rifling. Personally, I would never go about it like that. The potential for a mishap is just too great for me to take on. (And I've done beaucoup dumb stuff in my life.) The prudent thing to do would be to measure the COAL required to step the bullet off the rifling by .040 or better. Experimenting may put you closer or further away, but to start out already shoved into the rifling should be done with a long string used to pull the trigger. I won't even comment on the powder charge. Be guided by a good reload manual. Two or three for that matter.

[Jon K]

fatelvis,

Did you slug the barrel? Was the sizing to .311 to fit the barrel? If you did all of these, then, measure the bore riding section of the boolit, to see if you could have deformed it in the lube/sizing process. Check the brass OAL.

Your load sounds ok, since you are only .5 grains over Lyman's starting load & 19 grains/2400 is max for that boolit.

I have found that cast boolits shoot best, if they don't have to jump into the grooves. I shoot mine right up next to, or engraved into the grooves. Start with the Mfg's starting loads. Watch for pressure signs, and the gun will tell you what it likes.

*Side note 311041 is the very first mold I bought, and started casting- works good in every 30-30 I've had.

Jon
:castmine:

[6pt-sika]

I cast this bullet in the standerd nose and hollow point version . I also run these bullets thru a .312" sizing die .

[fatelvis]

I did not slug the barrel. I have read alot of threads about various 30 caliber cast loadings, and the vast majority of good shooting, non-leading bullets, have been sized to .310 or .311, and made with WW. I figured I would start there, with a modest powder charge. (I already have used 16gr. 2400 w/314299 in my Enfields for years, and had great luck, so 2400 seems like a good place to start with a powder.)

[beemer]

I have an old Marlin, it is a 336A made in 1949. The ballard rifling was the reason I bought the rifle,thought it would be better with cast. The reason for the hard chambering it that the throat is not tapered. The nose is going directly into the rifling. Mine will not chamber if the bore riding section is over .300 in. It doesn't hurt anything it the bullet is lightly engraved but I was afraid I would bend my lever. I borrowed a 311291 with a small nose and sized to .310 as my bore is.309.
It shot wery well but I want to try other bullets.

I posted a thread in the CBA forum in lever guns about the problem. Ed Harris posted a reply and decribed the problem. He recomended that I have the throat reamed to give it a taper. He said this would make chambering easier and should improve accuracy. You will probably find this article very interesting.I intend to talk to a gunsmith about this as I intentd to keep the rifle.

beemer

[fatelvis]

Ok, that makes sense. I was thinkng that the 311041 can't be that much different than a jacketed bullet as far as dimentions are concerned. Where can I view this article that your talking about? Thanks-

[Blackwater]

Did you check the mould to be sure it's closing fully? I once found mine had a tiny speck of lead on one of the inner faces that caused it to cast with the diameters, nose and body, larger than std. Just a thoght.

One other suggestion is to use a softer alloy, which tends to shrink a tad more, thus maybe fitting your gun if there's nothing causing the mould to not close fully, as above.

[beagle]

What you're seeing is probably a result of the nose being slightly "bumped" during sizing (if you're base first sizing). Using a nose first sizer may eliminate this problem or at least reduce it. You can tell if this is the problem by measuring the bullet nose diameter before and after sizing. If it grows, you're bumping.

If you're gas checking and sizing at the same time using new, unanealed GCs, this will also cause the nose to expand.

I kind of like light engraving as it gives good accuracy but if the lever is hard to close, that's too much of a good thing.

I normally size .310" for the .30/30 but have used .311". With cast, the heavy engraving is probably not a pressure issue unless you're using factory duplication velocities./beagle

[beemer]

The thread is on www.castbulletassoc.org/forum in leverguns. I know that my boolits are not bumping because I can't drive a unsized bullet in the rifling with a dowell. I tried my 311291 and a Lee flat nose 170, neither would chamber.I ended up borrowing a old 311291 so I could shoot the rifle. My Marlin will chamber factory ammo just fine but I haven't shot any and don't plan to.

I can't help you on the 2400 as I usually load IMR4198 or 5744 at about 18 gr.
I did look in my Lyman#48, it list 2400 at 14.5 starting and 19 max. with the 311041

beemer

[beagle]

You must be one of the lucky/unlucky guys with one with a big nose. I say luck if you happen to need a large diameter nosed bullet.

Lyman made the 041s with a variety of designs, shapes and sizes. I have a DC, factory HP that has a very small meplat and I have one with a very big meplat. Fortunately, both fit my .30/30. I do have a 311291 which is too large and displays the same deep engraving you mention.

In this case, a tapered sizing die will swage down the nose enough for chambering. Eagan made these in .30 but he's left the range now so I don't know where you can find one.

I finally switched to the RCBS 30-150-FN and 30-180-FN for the .30/30 (HP naturally) and have had no further problems./beagle

[6pt-sika]

What you're seeing is probably a result of the nose being slightly "bumped" during sizing (if you're base first sizing).
I normally size .310" for the .30/30 but have used .311". With cast, the heavy engraving is probably not a pressure issue unless you're using factory duplication velocities./beagle

I had that problem with the 311041 HP mould and I remmedied the situation by using a .312" die for all my sizing of 30 cal bullets . And believe it or not they all started shooting a fraction better then when I sized at .309 or .310 .

[GrizzLeeBear]

If its just the bore riding part of the nose thats too fat you could tape off the bottom part of the mold and use some mold release spray on the nose part of the mold. A lot of guys don't like the mold release spray because it has a tendency to reduce the dia. of the bullets by .001 - .002, in this case it could work to your advantage.

[fatelvis]

It seems that the 311041 being ingraved at the nose is a good thing! My 336 is shooting better groups than I've ever seen in any of my cast bullet shooting, from any of my rifles!! I guess the lands touching the bullet does make a difference.

[Junior1942]

I'm betting the nose side of your mold isn't closing all the way.