Making 45acp shotshells (My Way)

[GRUMPA]

I was PM'ing back and forth with a couple of members and told them I would make a post of how I make mine without the real need for special tools, so here it goes.

This picture shows what I used to cut the scrap 308/06 cases to a bit over 1.260 in length.

61835

Once I had just a few cut I trimmed them to length (1.260 -.01) and brought them in the house. I know it looks as though it has a real big chamfer on the O.D. but I didn't adjust the cutters for this and left them as is.

61836

Once I got my press bolted back to the table I used a 40cal carbide sizer and sized them down just far enough so that it's neither to much or to little to chamber in the barrel for my 1911.

6184061838

After I got done pretty much neck sizing them I got a regular 45acp case next to them for comparison.

61839

Now I put in the primer in all of them (5) and put in 6gr of Bullseye powder. After I got the powder in I used a 44mag case and just rested the case on a piece of cardboard and tapped the case down which cut out the wad I use to place over the powder.

6184261843

Once I got the wad shoved in the case I put in 120gr of #8 shot in the case.

61845

For the overshot card I used an old time card, I've also used those hard paper inserts that come in magazines as well, pretty much what's handy and harder and thicker than regular paper which you don't want to use. For making this I grabbed a 9mm case and tapped on it the same as the 44mag case I used earlier for the wad in order to make the over shot card.

[GRUMPA]

The 9mm overshot card fits inside and on top of the shot just perfectly.

61851

I put the shell back in the press and used a 45ACP seater die with the seater plug for the 230gr round nose boolit to roll the end of it to hold the overshot card in place.

NOTE: Make sure you have a magazine handy, make sure you put a large enough crimp on the case so it will fit your magazine.

61852

And here's a line-up of the others I made just for comparison sake.

61853

The ones I made I put them in my 1911, although they all fired they did not cycle the action enough to chamber another round. I also didn't anneal these as I would recommend be done. The ones I used showed signs of case mouth split just after the first firing. After each shot I cycled the action which went smoothly, no stuck cases or anything to point out.

[crawfobj]

Genius!

[Plinkster]

Agreed, I've been turning over how to do this in my head for a bit. Thanks for solving this one for me! Do you think a larger powder charge would cycle the action? I'd love to have the option of snake shot in my 1911. And all with tools I already have! Thanks again Grumpa!

[GRUMPA]

Do you think a larger powder charge would cycle the action?

Something like that would be up to the user to determine. Personally "IF" it were me I would give it a shot and see what happens. The ones I shot today the wife said sounded more like a "pop" more than a bang, I don't use the 1911 for pest control but rather one of my revolvers in 38cal which Speer makes those handy dandy shot capsules for.

[Cactus Farmer]

I have done a simular thing. Annealed 308 brass,the extractor groove is the same as 45ACP. I used Unique 7 grns? (I think,have to look when I get home) and a cut down 410 plastic wad. Crimped with a homemade die. It seems like the load needs to be taylored to each pistol to function the slide but mine will empty the clip.
I've hunted birds with it at short range and it turns snakes into Gainesburgers. I keep some in my Webley MkVI for arouond the home place. Momma makes good use of them on the slithering varmits and has sent a coyote or 2 scurrying for the fence.

[xacex]

thank you for the write up Grumpa! I am going to give this a try.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Grumpa: This is the type of stuff that sets Castboolits apart from most all of the websites out there.

Most people would never even think of doing this.

Great job!

Randy

[xs11jack]

When I lived in Los Angeles in the 80's we made up a lot of these, exactly as shown for when we went camping out in the desert. Wouldn't cycle the slide. Sure made mince meat of snakes.
Jack

[Willbird]

The Speer aluminum versions work the slide on my 1911 so it is possible for sure, they are just an aluminum cased version of what the OP is doing, they use no plastic capsule in front of the case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNKioE7gzyE

not my video, just one I found.

There is an article in handloaders digest 11th edition showing how to make and load the rounds with the rcbs dies using a 410 wad with shotcup, no reason it would not work with the OP's cases.

Here is a pdf that shows much of the data and info in that article plus more

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=handloaders%20digest%2045%20acp%20shotshells&source=web&cd=3&sqi=2&ved=0CD4QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ammomfg.com%2Ffunstuff%2F45_s hot_cartridges.pdf&ei=oSgmUcetDpG40gGk04HoBw&usg=AFQjCNEv3vUHVVTLmOIKLtDN1PlagotbsQ&bvm=bv.42768644,bs.1,d.dmg

[mazo kid]

Nice info to have. Years ago I had a commercial 45 ACP shot shell die set that I sold. Before selling, however, I made up several cases, then forgot the specifics of loading. Now I know!

[crowbuster]

Mine are similiar, I like the take out styrofoam containers from the eattin joints. Easier to cut.

[jmsj]

Grumpa,
Thanks for posting this.
How do your loads pattern?
jmsj

[GRUMPA]

Anything over about 25' it gets a bit wild, which is why I prefer shot loads in the 38cal revolvers. To be honest I only carried them around when I would go to the desert, didn't shoot snakes with it but it was so over grown that range with anything but that would be pointless.

[smoked turkey]

Very good information. I have looked for one of the commercial die sets to do this. However even if I found one I doubt I would be willing to pay the price as I understand they are considered collectible by some. I like your idea even better. Thanks for sharing this wealth of info.

[Von Dingo]

This should be a sticky! Doing this in a Blackhawk convertable, they could be very long, or you could use .460 S&W brass with the Colt cylinder. Just looking at it from the POV of the dies and supplies on hand. Might be able to use the Lee push through sizers for a better fit in the throat?

Not high on the list of things needed, just thinking out loud. Thanks for sharing GRUMPA.

[Artful]

I used to do similar with 30-40 krag cases for 44 magnum revolvers using 410 wads - I used to use the 22LR ammo trays for cutting out the top wad and sealed them with fingernail polish to keep out the rain/moisture as I lived in Oregon's westerly coastal range and it was a little moist most of the time.

Dean Grennell had articles doing this back in the 70's - I sure miss him and his projects sometimes.

[GRUMPA]

I made some shot loads for the 44mag out of 303 brass and the 410 wads, if I remember right it was rather on the light side but they did work OK. Since that time I went with the Speer shot capsules.

[xacex]

Well, I tried and failed. All I got were off center crushed necks. It seems that my brass is to thick to be squeezed down that easy. I used unsized 308 brass, and lubed liberally, but the 40 S&W die would not let my brass be sized evenly.

[bruce drake]

I think I will give this a try later this month.

[Von Dingo]

Well, I tried and failed. All I got were off center crushed necks. It seems that my brass is to thick to be squeezed down that easy. I used unsized 308 brass, and lubed liberally, but the 40 S&W die would not let my brass be sized evenly.

Just thinking out loud, maybe work it down in stages progressively smaller dies, IE work from the seating die to the sizer. Maybe has to do with GRUMPA different brands of dies, maybe the brass needs to be annealed.

[owejia]

Quick question for GRUMPA, what dia. does the 40 cal die size the brass down to and is your brass commerical or LC? I made a set of dies using a set of plans from the internet and they will cycle my RIA 1911 every time. The spent brass will have the rifling grooves engraved in it.I used LC 308 brass which is thicker than commerical brass. At 15 ft using 410 wads these pattern good. If the 40 cal sizing die sizes the brass smaller than mine I will buy one to use on my brass.Thanks

[GRUMPA]

Well, I tried and failed. All I got were off center crushed necks. It seems that my brass is to thick to be squeezed down that easy. I used unsized 308 brass, and lubed liberally, but the 40 S&W die would not let my brass be sized evenly.

When I tried to size the necks with my 41mag sizer (LEE) I got the exact same results, I got out my 40cal sizer (RCBS) and the problem got solved. I noticed between the 2 that the 40cal sizer has a much larger I.D. chamfer/radius at the mouth of the die and came to the conclusion it was the larger chamfer/radius at the mouth of the die that made all the difference. Latter I'll try and take a picture of the 2 and post them here to give folks a visual which seems to help. Thing is my El-Cheapo camera has a hard time with those up close pictures so for me it seems I need to take about 10 pictures and find the one that's the best.


Quick question for GRUMPA, what dia. does the 40 cal die size the brass down to and is your brass commerical or LC? I made a set of dies using a set of plans from the internet and they will cycle my RIA 1911 every time. The spent brass will have the rifling grooves engraved in it.I used LC 308 brass which is thicker than commerical brass. At 15 ft using 410 wads these pattern good. If the 40 cal sizing die sizes the brass smaller than mine I will buy one to use on my brass.Thanks

I went and did a couple more this morning since it's snowing outside and I have to spend the day inside anyway and the neck Dia. is .416. I also checked the Dia. after I fired them and those came out to .445 with some noticeable size difference from the rifling. I use whichever brass I have be it 06 or 308 and they are Mil or foreign, the foreign are KA (Korean) head stamp and they act the same for me and the domestic are LC. As far as domestic brass it's all Mil brass and treat anything else I have with care, hope that helps.

[Willbird]

I seem to recall from the article that they said the 308 brass would be easier on your extractor ?? The extractor rim recess is bigger ??

[FrankG]

Thanks GRUMPA ! I think Ill give it a go . After cutting off though Ill anneal to where shoulder will be and see it that helps .

[35remington]

I would suggest, as a very necessary step, to no longer shorten '06 brass for this shotshell construction.

Reason is that the extractor groove is of insufficient size to properly accept the 1911's extractor, and premature wear from excessive deflection can result. It is not case material but rather extractor groove dimensions of the case that determines whether the extractor is properly engaged or not.

Just a gentle caution to those wanting to try this. Stick with an extractor groove that more closely fits the 45 ACP spec. That would be the 308 case.

[DLCTEX]

I made these from 308 blank brass . I experimented with making the case longer and loading single shot, but having the case longer than the throat made the case stick in the rifling. I used a 41 mag. size die with no problems. I also used the foam take out tray wads and glued the overshot wad with tub and tile caulk. I took a bird out of the air from more than 20 yds. I kept the charges low using BE and cycled the action by hand. Heavier charges blew holes in the patterns for me. You can get a good amount of #9 shot in the extended case and reloading them need no further sizing with the low charges. Using the barrel for a sizing gauge until a case seats properly then run the rest of the cases makes the process go quickly.

[35remington]

308 brass is the way to go. The 30-06 brass is not recommended.

[dbosman]

I've got the RCBS shotshell set, minus the cut and trim die, coming soon.
I have .308 brass to play with, so I'll see how that goes. Presuming all goes well, I'll be happy to do a trade for formed cases.

[Michael J. Spangler]

subscribed for info

[smoked turkey]

dbosman, I will be very interested in hearing how the die set works for you. Does RCBS still catalog it? Or did you find a used one? I have only seen one set and at the time I had no interest. I would like to have a die set but I imagine I will try what GRUMPA has shown here. Thanks.

[xacex]

Just thinking out loud, maybe work it down in stages progressively smaller dies, IE work from the seating die to the sizer. Maybe has to do with GRUMPA different brands of dies, maybe the brass needs to be annealed.

Good points. I did try using the seating die first on a couple, and it didn't help, but the annealing beforehand may help a bit. I also cut mine shorter than Grumpa to begin with at 1.25 in.

Grumpa, I tried it with the Lee brand instead of RCBS. That issue with the chamfer in the Lee may be the problem. Oh well, It was worth a shot.

[wiersy111]

This is some really good info, I really want to give this a try.

[rockrat]

I have one of the dies sets, I bought new a long time ago. I also used AA410 wads. They worked real well. Would have to go grab the die box to see what the powder charge was.

[akraven]

Great write up. Have to put this on my list of things too try.

[dbosman]

I got lucky and found a used set down state from me.
RCBS still lists them on the Special Order Catalog.
Current, online list prices:
$161.95 RCBS # 56552 .45 Auto Shotshell, group H
$ 96.95 RCBS # 58378 .45 Auto (.45 ACP) Shotshell from .308 Win, group H
$ 12.95 Extended Shell Holder - 1 1/4" Long (No provision for depriming or priming)

http://www.huntingtons.com lists them, but only shows the price for the form & trim # 58378
It's going to be interesting.

[millsa2]

Here you Go.
Classifieds Home1 / General / Guns | Hunting
Ad Number: A272550
RCBS .45 ACP Shot Shell Forming Die Sets (Glennallen, Alaska)
Price : $175
Reply to : Telephone Contacts
Telephone : 907-822-4282
For the advanced reloader who only thought he had it all. This die set allows you to load shot shells in your 45 ACP. It actually requires 2 die sets (RCBS 55000 & 58378). Included are 20 formed cases that I produced a few years ago from 308 brass.



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[smoked turkey]

Today I formed a few 308 brass into the required necked down cases. I haven't loaded them yet. Since I don't have a good means to cut the cases down, I made a case holder for my vice. I started with a couple of 3"X4" 3/4" pine boards. I sandwiched them together in my portable vice on the drill press table. I drilled a 15/32nd hole in the center at the seam of the two boards. I drilled the hole 1.26" deep such that the 308 case could be sandwiched in the hole at the proper depth for cutting with a hack saw while held in the vice. I tried to cut the case just slightly proud of the top of the holder. I then filed the brass down to the surface of the boards. The result was a nice .308 case 1.26" long. I followed GRUMPA's instructions from there and trimmed the cases with my hand trimmer to 1.25. After chamfering I annealed the ends of the cases for a fast count to nine in the torch flame. I then formed the neck using my 40S&W sizing die. I couldn't get the 41 Mag die to work for me either. I will caution that for me the neck came to proper length for chambering sooner than I expected and I over sized two cases before I got the hang of it. I am anxious to finish the loading a shoot a few for pattern. This is a good project and one I can afford to do. I would love to have a die set but at those prices I don't see it in the future for me. This procedure appears to produce a very satisfactory looking piece of brass that chambers just right. Now if the roll crimp will work. The resizing was harder than I anticipated even with a coating of sizing wax.

[GRUMPA]

smoked turkey, if you get done with your little project could you post a couple of pictures of the finished product? The whole point of me putting this up in the first place was to give folks the idea to either progress somehow with the basic knowledge or expand on it and kinda fine tune the process. Trust me, I just make do with what I have the cheapest I can and get satisfactory results, if someone out there in CB land comes up with something better I'm all ears.

[geargnasher]

The biggest improvements one could make to this system is to increase the shot payload to at least 200 grains and use a gas check upside down as an overshot cap such that it could be crimped hard in there. Providing something for the powder to work against will build enough pressure to cycle the action with normal charges of fast-burning powder.

I ran into this with my revolver shotshell development. When I started approaching normal boolit weights with the shot payload it started coming together. One of the challenges here, obviously, is getting shot bridging in the "neck". In order to fit 200 grains in there more than half of it would be back in the case body. This bottlenecking of shot, together with annealed necks, might make for some sticky extraction and possibly high pressures, so approach my suggestions with caution.

One other thing that might help is to use a sort of punch and base to make a round-nose cap out of a .44 gas check and roll-crimp that into the neck. Might get a few more BBs in there that way.

Gear

[GRUMPA]

Those are some of the mind provoking thoughts I was looking for gear, so guess what I just had to do?...well.......try it out for myself. Using the original length of 1.260 and doing the same steps as before I only put in 10gr more shot and had some aluminum GC's and used it as the overshot card and the appearance of it was better but that isn't the point.

Doing it the way I did produced an AOL of 1.300 which for my magazine is really a tight fit but it did work. I put 1 in the chamber and 1 in the mag and went to the local range to see how well it would work, my range is out the front door. As before the first round fired but the case got stuck at the ejection stage and even trying to eject it was tough, seems the case itself is a bit to long. I don't have time right now but what I want to try out requires me to take off .100 to make the case 1.160 and use either #8 like I have been using or some #12 that I have and use sparingly.

Hopefully in the next few days I'll post a success or a failure but either way at least folks will know what direction not to take.

[fcvan]

I did some of those back in the 80s just to try it. I cut down the .308 brass with a tubing cutter and dipped the brass into molten lead to soften. I sized down in two steps, .44 then .41 IIRC. Over powder wad sat on a Bullseye load, filled with #9 shot and capped with a 35 gas check. They worked ok and I remember wanting to not cycle the action so I didn't lose the brass I worked so hard to create. Since I normally used a revolver when snake hunting the the Mojave area I didn't pursue the .45 ACP shot shells so much. I haven't made up any .45 Colt shot shells yet but will use gas checks like I have done with the .357

[GRUMPA]

308 brass is the way to go. The 30-06 brass is not recommended.

I went into S.A.A.M.I. and downloaded both the 30-06 and 308 pdf files, the width of the head of the 06 case is .049-.01, the width of the head for the 308 is .054-.01. OK so far not much of a difference till you look at the width of the extractor groove itself, the width for 06 is .033+.01, and the width for the 308 is .055+.01, so there is a difference between the 2 when you get into looking a bit closer at things.

[geargnasher]

Those are some of the mind provoking thoughts I was looking for gear, so guess what I just had to do?...well.......try it out for myself. Using the original length of 1.260 and doing the same steps as before I only put in 10gr more shot and had some aluminum GC's and used it as the overshot card and the appearance of it was better but that isn't the point.

Doing it the way I did produced an AOL of 1.300 which for my magazine is really a tight fit but it did work. I put 1 in the chamber and 1 in the mag and went to the local range to see how well it would work, my range is out the front door. As before the first round fired but the case got stuck at the ejection stage and even trying to eject it was tough, seems the case itself is a bit to long. I don't have time right now but what I want to try out requires me to take off .100 to make the case 1.160 and use either #8 like I have been using or some #12 that I have and use sparingly.

Hopefully in the next few days I'll post a success or a failure but either way at least folks will know what direction not to take.

Hmm. The 1.3" is way too long to clear the barrel hood and port, but if you cut it back to an OAL of 1.270" it ought to work fine. I'm getting the impression they were trying to cycle the slide with the aluminum check crimped over the shot, looks like it might work for you with the load you're using if you cut the brass a bit shorter. There's really nothing wrong with them not cycling as long as the shot has enough suds to penetrate the intended target, it's easy to rack the slide for a mulligan (even on a britches leg if your other hand is occupied with something else or you're in tight quarters).

My work with revolvers involved developing a shot wad made from scratch. The point was to prevent the usual bore leading, improve patterns, and to increase the shot payload so the powder could build pressure enough to do some real work. I made some for the .45 ACP but could never get the payload needed with my method, so I had to go with bare shot and crimped the mouth using an 8-point socket for a starter and finishing with a .38 round-nose top punch in my drill press.

Gear

[smoked turkey]

I am posting results and pictures of making cases and patterning the 45 acp shotshell. What I have proven to myself in this process is that GRUMPA's idea does work and in fact works quite well. My thanks to him for providing the procedure and plans if you will for creation of these shotshells. I had no way to hold the brass for processing like he did so I devised a simple jig of 3/4" pine with a 15/32" hole for holding the brass at the proper depth for cutting and filing to rough length. After chamfering and annealing I proceeded with the neck reduction using a 40 S&W sizing die. As GRUMPA stated, it is important to have your 45acp barrel handy to let you know when you achieve the proper body length which will allow the new case to properly headspace in the barrel. It does this on the newly created shoulder after case forming. Go easy. You get to the proper length before you think you will. I ruined my first two because I did it until it looked right rather than trying it in the barrel chamber. I used his load recipe, along with a homemade cardboard op wad. I used a dipper but weighed the #7 1/2 shot load to 122 grains. I used a .375 gc over the shot. I achieved a roll crimp using my .45acp seating die. My case neck was a little too big to start with so I used my 500 S&W seating die to start and finished up with the acp die. I have shown pictures of a factory shotshell for comparison with the newly made shotshell. I was impressed with the similiarity between the two!! I then did a comparison at the pattern board at 5 yards. This can hardly be called a conclusive test comparing the factory to the homemade shotshell. However if it shows up well enough in the picture you will be able to see that the two shells have very comparable patterns. The difference in appearance is result of the factory using #9 shot, while I used #71/2 in mine. I have some #9, but I felt the larger shot would result in more penetration than the #9 would so that is what I chose. Fact is in my test both loads patterned almost the same percentage of shot on the cardboard at 5 yards with a calculated 77% for the handmade vs 80% for the factory. For my next go around I will use a BPI op card cut to half thickness. I will also trim the finished formed brass to 1.180" prior to loading. Hopefully this will allow the cases to work in my magazine. The others were slightly too long to work smoothly. The load did eject and I feel will work the action ok once the right length is found. Personally I am going to good smooth function rather than trying to maximize the shot load which might require each round being individually loaded in the chamber. I am not too good at this picture thing, so I hope this all works when I push the send button. Thanks for taking the time to read my rambling and thanks GRUMPA for the initial idea that pushed me over the edge to give this a try.62879628866288562884628836288162880

[cheese1566]

I am now caught by the bug!!! Probably never use them, but its the point of crafting them!!
I have been reading, reading, and reading this thread and Internet about making these. I have copies of the die making instruction also.
Questions:
When you guys are making and then firing these, do they need to be resized in a 45acp die and/or custom die?
Or are they low powered they dont need it?

Plus, how many loadings can you get if you keep having to remove the crimped flare and then recrimp to load?

[Plinkster]

So would .243 brass work? I have lots of '06 brass, no .308 but a handful of .243

[GRUMPA]

So would .243 brass work? I have lots of '06 brass, no .308 but a handful of .243

I checked my books and it looks like you can, but to be double sure I would go to S.A.A.M.I. and down load the pdf file for both of them, 308 and 243.


I am now caught by the bug!!! Probably never use them, but its the point of crafting them!!
I have been reading, reading, and reading this thread and Internet about making these. I have copies of the die making instruction also.
Questions:
When you guys are making and then firing these, do they need to be resized in a 45acp die and/or custom die?
Or are they low powered they dont need it?

Plus, how many loadings can you get if you keep having to remove the crimped flare and then recrimp to load?

So far I've just been using them after re-sizing them neck with the 40cal sizer die. The second time I annealed them and I trimmed them down which is smaller then the original length I have posted in post #1. Hopefully this week sometime I'll post some progress (I hope) because I was trying to make them cycle on there own. I did a couple things different but haven't gotten to the point of being able to try them out, been real busy forming brass and that takes priority.

[smoked turkey]

I have very limited experience so far. I would say for my old GI barrel it appears to have expanded to the point that I think resizing is needed. The jury is out as far as whether to resize the lower or "case" portion and the necked down portion as well, or just the neck portion. What I have done to be on the safe side for feeding is to resize the fired case in a 45 acp sizer, and the neck portion with the 40S&W die. This is just me. I will say that the load is anything but underpowered. The felt recoil and sound to me was about the same as the factory Speer shot load. However the resizing is easy the second time around. The brass appears to be in very good condition. The factory case which is aluminum split in the neck section. I don't know if that is due to my chamber or if they always do that. I will fire some in my Officers just to check that out. As I said I haven't enough experience with reloads yet to say how many loading cycles you can get before the case neck splits. I do think it is important to anneal the brass after a few loadings. I think that will lengthen brass life substantially. Cheese, I totally agree that this thing has a tendency to get a hold of a guy that likes the process of crafting your own ammo and expecially taking a rifle case and making not only a pistol case out of it, but a shot case as well. Being able to do it without the very expensive set of no longer available factory dies is nice too. Let us know how yours turn out. I was very impressed with the pattern and I must say that I would feel very confident if a poisonious snake just happened to make advances to me if that is what I had on my person. A rabbit wouldn't be too safe either. I wouldn't shoot a quail because we don't have that many anymore. Well you get my drift.

[cheese1566]

In my Google searches for more knowledge, I found some forum talk elsewhere about guys using 44 mag dies. After looking at SAAMI speccs, it seems that may be too large to neck down. I did see 41 mag might be closer. I dont have any Speer shotshells to measure to see how they are.

I have a set of old steel 41mag dies being held by IllinoisCoyoteHunter to tinker with. When it warms up I may also try crafting my own homemade set on the lathe.

I do have a idle set of RCBS carbide 40S&W on the shelf if all else fails, from knowledge and experience above, I know these will work.

[GRUMPA]

I had some time this morning to give another version a try and write it down here. I used the same brass I did in the first test phase but I trimmed them down to 1.200 and annealed them real well, and by real well I mean I got the brass glowing red. I know it may seem excessive to some but I want to know where limits are on some things so I can make notes and not make the same mistake twice.

This time when I did them I did everything the same as before but only put in 110gr of #8 1/2 shot, I know I said previously I was going to use #12 but I didn't have much, it's not like it's easy to come by anyway.

63268

This time instead of using an over shot card I tried out some aluminum gas checks I had instead just to see if I noticed anything different. The OAL was 1.240-1.245 doing this.

63269

When I loaded these same pieces of brass I did size them with a 45ACP sizer die first, and yes while sizing there was resistance from the brass so it's safe to say the even though your using 308 brass for this project the brass does expand and is advisable to re size them.

Re sizing the neck was simpler than the first go around, when I re sized the neck there's obvious marks from the 40cal sizer die as your doing it, just pay attention when doing it and all should be fine.

I went and fired them and as before I had to manually cycle the action every time, even though they were a bit short than the first batch they cycled just fine, just failed to extract on there own. I guess I'll have to be happy with what I have and not look a gift horse in the mouth.

One thing I did notice right off the bat is that they were just a bit but not much harder to extract and I believe this is from the annealing part of it allowing the brass to expand more thus grabbing onto the rifling easier. This is such a slight difference I almost didn't even bother to add it in here but figured I would anyway.

I started with 4 pieces and 2 of them split to the point they're scrap now but I did get 2 firings out of them from some scrap 308 brass that would otherwise have been destined for the scrap yard anyway.

[kywoodwrkr]

I seem to recall from the article that they said the 308 brass would be easier on your extractor ?? The extractor rim recess is bigger ??
That agrees with information I have read as well.
The 308 extractor groove has a .055 groove with a 36.1 degree chamfer on front.
45 ACP has extractor groove of .035 BUT the slope on the front chamfer is 26 degrees.

[ddixie884]

THANX, for the info, you guys are really working at this..........

[Plinkster]

Man I gotta get my new bench finished and moved into so I can get some of these worked up.

[cheese1566]

So far, so good!
Just ignore my crappy thread cutting! This is my initial attempts at threading
...heck my first real lathe project!
63553

[smoked turkey]

wow! Cheese, those look good! I'd say you did very well. Tell you what, you do another one which will be a little better and send me this one. Seriously, looks like a perfect neck resize from my end. I am anxious to see your next steps. Can you make a trim die that you can run the formed cases into, and hack saw them off. I think you would have to harden the top of the die so the hack saw wouldn't cut into it. You might be able to incorporate a cut-off/resizing die into one die. Nice work.

[Plinkster]

Looks great! Don't worry about the threads even the ugly ones usually work as well as the purty ones if not as smoothly. I like the idea of sizing before trimming, seems as though the crumpled case problem that some have had would go away.

[cheese1566]

Don't let the pics fool you. The die scratches the top portion and some of the lower. I dropped these in SST tumbling media afterwards and it seemed to remove the ugliness. I can live with that.

I felt sizing before intial cut down will help make the sizing easier. The case neck on these 243WIN guided through the die with no problems. I think just a straight wall would catch the interanl sizer ring.

Wheels are turning in my head with more ideas.

[George Tucker]

I use 45 Win Mag cases, case needs no mods, use 2 gas checks and #12 shot over Unique. I bought a set of the RCBS Dies on Ebay for $50.00. iam sure their close to #200.00 now.

[cheese1566]

I hope I am not hijacking this thread...Grumpa please PM if offended.
I have learned a lot on this thread and am taking the experience of others to build on.
I just finished a "trimmer" length die for shortening my cases after sizing.
The die is from 1018 7/8" stock and threaded to 7/8-14. (Notice my threading getting better!!)
It is about 1.100" long. Using my ram adapter from my PiggyBack, I can use it as an extended shellholder with my #3 shellholder. (i assume one can use an actual extended shellholder.)
I turn the die into the top and then bottom out the ram touching the bottom of the die. I then put a sacrificial 7/16" washer on top and use a hacksaw to cut flush using a pliers to keep it from turning. The die's top hole is just big enough for the brass to pass freely and about a .20" depth to help keep the brass from bending. The rest of the die is bored 31/32".
Using a fine tooth hacksaw, the brass comes out at 1.300"; enough room for final trimming on my powered ProTrim at my desired length to yet be determined.

63763 63764

[smoked turkey]

Good deal George on the die set. I'll look into the 45 Win Mag cases if I ever run across any. Would you be willing to share your recipe on the load with Unique? Which check fits the 45 Win mag case after using the RCBS dies? And how much shot do you get in the case between the checks? I use .375 checks on the top but didn't know if the check would be ok over powder, so I use a round cardboard over the powder. Do you happen to have any pictures you could could post for us? Thanks for your input.

[smoked turkey]

Cheese1566,that is fantastic. Yes I'd say they look really nice. Looks like they do a nice job too. If you had a color monitor you'd see that I am green with envy. Nice job. I am currently working on a few more pieces of brass. This time I used a 44 mag die for the neck reduction. I have them trimmed to 1.18". That may be a tad short, but we'll see. I have been to busy to load them but I'll get to it as soon as I can. Your sacrificial washer is a very good idea. Probably better than using the top of the die to register the saw blade. Keep us posted.

[Springfield0612]

You guys got me hooked on this! I got a pack of racoons around here that are gonna hate these! Especially if they make a pop sound instead of a bang! Now to collect the parts. I think I just need the .40 S&W sizing die. I've got a set of .38 spcl/.357 mag dies I don't use and a spare .357 mag expanding die but no .40 S&W. The hunt is on!

[trooperdan]

Springfield, these aren't by any means quiet loads.. not pop, not up to the level of a ball round but far from silent.

[smoked turkey]

+1 on what trooperdan said. I was surprised at the power level I felt at firing. Some experimentation might yield a lighter load, but these are an attempt to have a load that cycles the action.

[kenjuudo]

I have a scanned copy of C.E. Harris' article on .45 shotshells from the April 1976 American Rifleman, 4 pages.

Not sure of the ethics etc., of posting it on the forum, perhaps it would be OK to email?

jim

[Springfield0612]

Either way I'm in! These should still work great for grouse loads as well.

I'll take a copy of that article if you don't mind!

[GRUMPA]

I hope I am not hijacking this thread...Grumpa please PM if offended.


On something like this I appreciate the efforts from all parties involved. I just kinda opened the door to the way I do things and I'm not saying it's the only way either.

The way I look at it it's the meeting of the minds and/or talents of more than one person that helps spread the knowledge/abilities around giving folks food for thought.

So the more ideas that are introduced in my mind "the more the merrier" type of a thing.

Just keep up on the ideas in the idea dept. and I'm sure it's going to give a lot of folks something to think about doing in the long run.

[Charley]

I have a scanned copy of C.E. Harris' article on .45 shotshells from the April 1976 American Rifleman, 4 pages.

Not sure of the ethics etc., of posting it on the forum, perhaps it would be OK to email?

jim
Similar or the same article in one of the Handloader's Digests. I was lucky enough to buy part of a commercial reloader's estate some years back. I missed on his presses and most dies, but got most of his molds, alloy, and the RCBS .45 ACP shotshell die set. Load as Harris suggests, using WW 231, and the loads will cycle in most 1911s I've tried them in.

[Springfield0612]

Got the article, thanks! Adding it to my reload binder today! Anxious to hear updates, my brain has been working on overdrive thinking about this project! Thanks again for all the inputs and knowledge about this.

[kenjuudo]

Hope I got everyone on the article, if not let me know. Have a lifetime supply of the shells loaded up. Found I have a small stash of #8 shot left if anyone is in need just send me a PM.

jim

[cheese1566]

Jim,
I replied to your email offer.

[FrankG]

Jim , thank you for the article ! I did a little searching online and found some more info on 45 acp shotshells. Just may have to make a set of dies with his plans .

http://www.ammomfg.com/funstuff/45_shot_cartridges.pdf

[littlejack]

Hey Frank:
These dies were my first project when I got my Grizzly lathe, and built my "man shed". I made them about 3-4 months ago. I had to buy the two metric drill bits, but it was fun making the dies.
The dies come out fine. I used 7/8x14 tpi grade 5 bolts for the dies. I used the lathe to shorten 06 and 270 brass, then ran the shortened brass through the first die. Worked great. I did change the primer punch a little. I turned it so it would straighten out any remaining roll crimp on the fired cases. This works great also. I am waiting to get to the range to get some 308 brass to make my final loaded rounds.
The 06 and 270 brass that I made up chambers like factory shells, but I want to use 308 brass for the proper extraction groove.
Reguards
Jack

[Greg]

Jim

thank you for the article.

[OBXPilgrim]

Over 25 years ago, I remember sitting in the LGS of an ex-SF mustang major that did very much custom reloading. He made 45 ACP shotshells just as everyone has been talking about here with one difference. He placed a round lead cast ball - and I can't remember if it was .32" or .36" - on top of the lead shot and crimped on it. It made a very nice round tip on the end of the loaded round. I remember he mentioned the cast lead ball would hit pretty close to POA. They sure looked pretty slick. He sold them for $1 each, way back then. Since I didn't have a 45 then, I never tried any.

[GRUMPA]

I've been debating if I should post this here or on my sales page but I'll post here as a feeler anyway. I got in some 308 blanks and was converting them into other things but I do have a few rejects and can trim and form the necks, pretty much all you have to do is fill the cases and form the mouth of the case, so if anyone is interested just send me a PM, I plan on selling them at .25ea plus shipping.

[lmfd20]

I love this forum.

[Boogieman]

I will add a few of my findings. made some 45acp shot shells used 243& 308 cases neck sized before trimming in 41mag.seating die used 410 wad cut to .750 seated hard on powder with a dowel fill with #8 shot top wad cut from hard cardboard ,ww primer box ,seated & crimped with a lee 380 seating die with a home made extened seating stem. cases were cut with a small tubing cutter & trimmed with a case trimmer used a 41mag. expander die. do not soften case necks they will expand & make hard extraction. I used 5.2 gr Unique with app. 95gr.of #8 any more powder would cause the necks to stick in the chamber. these would work in both of my Colts they would go through both sides of a steel can at 20 ft. & put 65% of the shot in a 9" paper plate. top wad sealed with Elmers glue.35cal. gas check will work but I,m cheep

[OBXPilgrim]

Found a Hornady 32 S&W/Magnum die set has a seater die that has a nice big 45 degree angle to guide the bullet/case into the die. Adjusted down until the seater stem is next to the angled guide, and it makes a nice crimp. Works pretty good with a .36" ball on top.

6621066211

Couldn't find any "brass" .308 cases, so, since I found some nickled .308's, well they just look kinda shiny, huh?

Total weight of the payload is 130grs, but I'm still working on the charge of Unique. Got some to try this weekend.

[GRUMPA]

That looks like some mighty fine craftsmanship, I am very curious how accurate they are. Think you could post a field report after you try them out? Inguiring minds would like to know.

[smoked turkey]

I agree with Grumpa that your work looks good. It will be interesting to learn how they pattern and how the round ball performs. I am also still experimenting. I am using a 410 plastic wad and it limits my shot load to about 80 grains. I think I get better results using an over-powder card with out the plastic wad column. I doing it with the card I can increase my payload to about 120 grains. I believe I also have at least as good pattern but with more shot. I'm curious if anyone else has experienced that as well? Thanks. This is an interesting project.

[OBXPilgrim]

Well, thank you guys very much. I don't expect much in the way of accuracy from the ball, I don't imagine I would even attampt to try it at more than a couple yards away.

I'll try to remember my camera that day.

[rojkoh]

I'd have to try and find this one, but C.E. Harris did an article in "The American Rifleman" about this a long time ago. They did cycle and function properly although he's normally a wheelgunner. It could be done again, but the reality is that these are commercially made.

PM me if you want me to try and find the article, it's around here somewhere. I could scan the article.

[rojkoh]

I agree with Grumpa that your work looks good. It will be interesting to learn how they pattern and how the round ball performs. I am also still experimenting. I am using a 410 plastic wad and it limits my shot load to about 80 grains. I think I get better results using an over-powder card with out the plastic wad column. I doing it with the card I can increase my payload to about 120 grains. I believe I also have at least as good pattern but with more shot. I'm curious if anyone else has experienced that as well? Thanks. This is an interesting project.

If you do it the old TAR way, the it was good enough to kill Quail at 7 yards.

[Boogieman]

I have loaded these with a 45cal. felt Wonderwad from Ox yoke. I got better patterns with 410 wads & no leading.

[cheese1566]

I'd have to try and find this one, but C.E. Harris did an article in "The American Rifleman" about this a long time ago. They did cycle and function properly although he's normally a wheelgunner. It could be done again, but the reality is that these are commercially made.
PM me if you want me to try and find the article, it's around here somewhere. I could scan the article.

Very true, but from what users say about the commercial ones, they don't cycle the action. The article I have from Harris says they will and have a little more reach.

And to be quite honest, bullets are commercially made, but we choose to make our own...that is what this entire forum is all about.

[OBXPilgrim]

Well, the mini buck & ball (.358" ball & #8 shot) load turned out to be basically a poor mans Glaser safety slug, that only works sometimes.

I was a little concerned about the amount of powder to start off with using the RB, so I backed off to 4.2grs of unique. This was Winchester nickeled .308 Win brass, cut to around 1.180", after sizing first with the seater die from a 41 mag die set (it had a flared opening), then using the 41 mag seater die. I crushed the wall on a few cases until I spotted the seater die flare & used it first. Win Large Pistol primer - careful not to seat too deep (if it would). A Claybuster replacement (red color) AA410HS wad seated down on top of the powder & rammed down. Then the wad was trimmed off. A Lee .7cc dipper of #8 shot (which came from several old rusted 20ga shells) was dumped in. A .358" RB (from a mold I got from someone here) was dropped on top of the shot - which is a fairly good fit into the cut off wad. Crimped using a Hornady 32 S&W/Mag seater die to crimp the ball in place (that die has a nice big chamfered opening).

Ok, range time:

4.2 grs of Unique / 130 grs of #8 shot / RB / 7 yds

First shot - RB hit pretty close to point of aim. Wad went left, as did the shot. Not too good if you are looking for patterns. The load DID cycle & loaded the next round.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94800071@N08/8625061573/in/photostream

Two more rounds fired into the same target. Not too good as patterns go, BUT all 3 RBs in the black. Doesn't look like much of the other 2 loads of shot even came out of the wad.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94800071@N08/8626169632/in/photostream

Another target, same 4.2gr load of Unique / 7yds. Confirms the shot staying with the wad - very little shot impact on the target. One RB went a little high.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94800071@N08/8626173406/in/photostream

Next load, all the same except 4.9grs Unique - 1 shot at 10yds. RB in the 7 ring at 8:00. You can about fly a B52 through that pattern.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94800071@N08/8625064593/in/photostream

More later - sorry, but my grandson came over with his parents last night, which is a much higher priority.

New target, 2 more shots 4.9gr Unique, both RBs at 6:00. One wad hit the paper, the other - who knows. Wide patterns.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94800071@N08/86261772236/in/photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94800071@N08/8626172236/in/photostream)

Tried another target, 2 more shots, Rb at 12:00 just out of the black, 9:00 just out of the black. One wad hit at 12:00, one wad missing. JUST 2 pellets of shot hit the paper.

All these loads cycled the 1911 action & loaded the next round.



Next were loads with 5.5grs of Unique with conventional GC on top, crimped in. These started life as RB loads, but I second guessed the load & pulled the RB, didn't think I started low enough on the powder load. I couldn't get the wads out, so just loaded the shot on top w/GC. None of these cycled the action - too light. First 3 shots, 2nd pic has 2 shots. What looks like a RB hit in the paper, is a GC impact.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94800071@N08/8625070513/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94800071@N08/8625069057/in/photostream

Looks like the RB is not going to work too good for a combo shot/RB load, unless you like inconsistancy.

[Roger Ronas]

Can I get a copy of that article?
Thanks
Roger
psL email is
roger.ronas0 at gmail dot com (no spaces)



Hope I got everyone on the article, if not let me know. Have a lifetime supply of the shells loaded up. Found I have a small stash of #8 shot left if anyone is in need just send me a PM.

jim

[smoked turkey]

OBXPilgrim thanks for sharing your .45 shotshell "research". I was interested in knowing how it would work. Looks like from your targets for whatever reason, when adding the roundball, it is causing the shot pattern to go to the left. Perhaps you will find that magic bullet formula. I have a question for you. I am using a Federal 410SC plastic wad column in mine. I do use a little more powder than you with about 6.0 gr unique. I only have room for about 80 grs of #9shot. I wonder if your Claybuster AA410HS has a shorter over powder section than mine? I have preferred to shoot without a plastic wad column since I can get about 125 grs of shot over my 1/16" cardboard over powder wad. My pattern density was fairly good too at about 75% by calculation after counting my "hits". Thanks for your helpful report.

[OBXPilgrim]

Added more to my post (#88).

Smoked, over powder section with this CB AA410HS wad has a .070"/.072" thickness - the bottom of the wad has an .080" deep cavity. Cross section would look like an "H". No crush piston, figure "8" or anything. The wad doesn't split until .300" up the cup.

[cheese1566]

Here are my results with a picture of:
Winchester WAA41 wad seated, filled with #9, topped with 35 cal gas check, crimped...
69526
I still need to shoot and test these.

[GRUMPA]

And how much shot you figure you were able to shove in there?

[cheese1566]

After scooping it in and letting it overflow, I measured a few to be around 86 grains.

[smoked turkey]

cheese1566, those look like some good .45 acp shotshells. I will be interested in seeing how they pattern for you. I am going to say they will do a fine job. I almost feel sorry for any poisonous snake that crosses your path on the way to your favorite fishin hole. What is your powder and charge if you don't mind my asking. I am full of questions but I also would like to know if it cycles OK. So far I have not hit on the magic formula to get it all. Thanks!

[Seatex]

Hey guys new to the forum. I've been researching this topic as well. Saw on another site where they were looking at using a set of .400 Corbon dies to form the shoulder on .308 cases. Thoughts?

[GRUMPA]

Something like that I would have to have it in my hot little hands and play with it for awhile to determine if it will work or not.

[Seatex]

Their thought is you can take a .45 acp and neck it down to .400 corbon in those dies, so it would assist necking down a .308 in order to make a shotshell. I ordered a die set for 30.00 and will be experimenting in forming cases out of a box of 7mm-08 that i've reloaded 5 times already.

[GRUMPA]

On something like that when you get them and use them I think pictures would be in order. I use RCBS 40/10mm sizer die in just 1 operation without so much as a hic-up and they work and perform just fine. If you go to the vendor sponsor section and go to my name and click it there's a thread for the shot shell brass and look at the picture, that's what mine look like in 1 forming operation.

[Seatex]

I'll go there and check it out.
I just ordered the dies last night. I will post pictures once I get them in and setup.

[Seatex]

I'm still working on this, but here is where I'm at so far. The case is bottle-necked with a .400 Corbon sizing die. The .400 Corbon die necked down the .308 case with no problems, but left an outside diameter of .410 on the mouth of the case which probably will not allow a .410 shot wad to be used unless the neck is expanded. The case was trimmed to an overall length of 1.180 and I charged with 4.5 gr. of "Clays" (which is the closest powder on my shelf in burn rate to use). I placed an over powder wad cut from a corrugated shoe box. The case held 112 gr. of 7-1/2 shot. A single over shot wad made from the business card was used and held in place with clear fingernail polish. No roll crimp was used as none of my dies would work for that. The target was shot at a distance of 6 ft with a commander size 4.25" barrel 1911. This round will not cycle the slide, but seemed to pattern well at that distance. I will be picking up a bag of #10 shot so I can increase the grains of shot in the load and improve the pattern.
7577375774757757577675777

[Michael J. Spangler]

You guys are really going to make me do this huh?
Maybe next week. These would be cool for my 625 for pests
I wonder how they would work on frogs?

[GRUMPA]

Seatex, When I roll crimped mine I used a RCBS 45acp seater die with the round nose boolit seater, worked very well for me and produced fine results..

[Seatex]

Grumpa, thanks for the info, but all my dies are Lee and the .45 acp die I have wouldn't work. I did increase powder by .5 grains to 5.0 gr. of Clays and sealed with a thick layer of clear nail polish. I ended up with 113 grains of #8 shot and it cycled all 8 rounds in the magazine. As a side note since there is no roll crimp the only mag that worked was a Chip McCormick. I believe the angle of the follower allows the rounds to cycle.

[GRUMPA]

Maybe I should give that shorter length a try when I have the time, yours are almost .100 shorter than mine are.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Just sized a few cases down with an old dillon 38 super seating die. I tried my Hornady 40 cal sizing die and it did not want to go into the die. When I feel resistance with that much pressure I figure the next step is breaking something.

The OD of the sized portion of the case is .385 or so.

I'll have to mess with this more tomorrow. I would love to make a cool load for my revolver.
Has anyone used these in revolvers and make the cases a touch longer for a bigger payload? Maybe you can still use a 410 was but get more in there?

[GRUMPA]

It seems using the 410 shot cup in there takes up more space resulting in a smaller payload. I tried doing that years ago and I would rather have a heavier load without the shot cup myself and came up with forming my own.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Just finished up 2
I used 5 grains of bullseye. Cardboard wad. I fit about 135 grains of #8 shot and crimped a 30 gal gas check in the mouth.
I'm off from work this week so I can hopefully make a few more and try them out.

[freebullet]

This thread is inspiring & should be made a sticky if not already.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Banged out 6 more. They really go fast once you have the set up for them.

They look awesome in a moon clip for the S&W 625. Not the most consistent on the fill. I was just topping them off and crimping. The last 4 were nice. I think I got it right for a nice full and tight fitting gas check.

Woohoo

76240

[smoked turkey]

Very nice work Michael. It looks like it is all business. I'd say the poison snakes best be on the lookout. I am anxious to see how they perform for you. I found as Grumpa did that for me having a bigger shot payload worked out a little better than using the plastic wad. Not by much. The plastic wad did give me a little tighter group. However the additional shot made up for it if that makes sense.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Thank you.

Good to hear on the payload.
When I used to shoot my smoothbore .56 cal I found that a lighter charge of powder and more shot made all the difference in pattern. It was moving a touch slower but you couldn't slip a chickadee in and of the holes in the pattern.

I wonder how much more room I have in the cylinder of the 625 to lengthen the shell a bit?

[Michael J. Spangler]

If anyone is looking to use these rounds with moon clips you should look for Hornady .308 match brass.
They slide into the moon clips as nice as 45 ACP.
I dug through half of my brass and found 7 Hornady 308 and 1 Hornady 270.
Woohoo!

[littlejack]

Hey to all of you snake charmers.
I have been following this thread since its beginning. I did not want to dive in until I had something to realistically add.
I received my lathe last August in 2012. My first pieces of work were the dies to make the 45 acp shot loads.
I got on the, net, and printed me off a copy of the old NRA article with all of the dimensions.
I made my sizer die depriming pin to also take out any crimp that didn't get straightened out from firing, and to bell the case mouth.
I checked the first cases, using some 7 1/2 shot earlier this week. I wasn't satisfied with the amount of pellets in the load.
I requested some #9 shot on the WTB site, and received it on Saturday. There is also a member sending me some #10 shot this week, that I want to test.
So, I loaded my first loads today with my lathe turned custom homemade dies. I haven't shot them, but they look very nice.
My load is as follows.
I used Winchester 45 Magnum brass. I wanted to use this brass, as I reasoned that it would have more inner capacity than the 308 rifle brass. The only problem is that the 45 Magnum brass is as scarce as hens teeth. I did manage to get 64 cases. The extractor groove on this brass is not like the 45 acp, or the 308 brass. One has to turn the case to match the 45 acp extractor groove, or there will be failures to eject.
I used the closest load of 231/HP-38 recommended in the NRA article. I dropped it with my Lil'Dandy and the #10 rotor.
The charge is 6.5 grains.
Next I hand seated a .415 card wad over the powder. This material in equal to the shotgun shell "Nitro" material. Very dense.
Then I dumped in the shot to find what weight fit the best, and left room for the over the shot wad. I came up with 152 grains of #9 shot. This counted out to be 195 pellets.
The over the shot wad I made from a poly screw on lid. The material is .050 thick. These are .410 diameter.
I poured some of the shot into the case, then shook it down to settle, then a little more, then a little more. Then I placed the over shot wad on top. This set flush on top of the case mouth.
When adjusting the set/crimp die, I first used the seat punch in the die to push the osw down into the case, so a crimp could be provided. After seating the osw, I backed out the seat punch, and adjusted the die to the crimp that I wanted, then locked the die nut in place. Then I screwed the seat punch back down to just touch the osw, and everything was adjusted.
After adjusting the dies for the first case, the rest of the loads went very fast.
I am very pleased with the amount of shot in these loads. I did not use any shot cups, for the same reason anyone else didn't. I wanted more shot.
These loads will probably not get shot at snakes too often. There are very few venomous snakes in my area. When I lived in Eastern Oregon, I used to go hunting them up a canyon road in the evening. They would come out and lay on the warm gravel road. But there was no need there either, as you could see them lying there before you got to them. If I lived where some of you fellas live, I would definitely have a 45 acp loaded with a magazine full of these snake loads on my hip.
Regards
Jack

[smoked turkey]

Jack, very good write up. Sounds like you have done well with your lathe and your new dies. I would like to get a range report when available and also see some pictures of your work both on the dies and the loads.

[littlejack]

I will give a range report, but as for the photos, the computer and I are not too compatible. I need to get some instruction on
how to post photos here on the forum.
Jack

[George Tucker]

I make my 45ACP Shotshells with 45 Win Mag cases, I have a set of RCBS Dies for 45ACP Shotshells, I shoot them out of a Glock 21. never have failure to feed or extraction issues, I have tried four diff size of shot, #12 works better than any of the others, goes inside the Snake and rolls around, very effective. Ballistics Products has #12 shot. I bought a bunch of stuff at a Estate Sale, there was a Card board box with Win on it, bought it for $5.00. inside was 4,000 Win factory primed 45 Win Mag cases. If I decide to sell some, I will list them on the Forum, George.

[littlejack]

Thank you George.
If you DO decide to sell some of the 45 Magnum brass, I would appreciate very much letting me know.
Regards
Jack

[Scharfschuetze]

Great tip on using 45 Win Mag brass. I've been making these shot shells since the mid 70s and I never thought of using the magnum brass. Darn as back in the late 70s and early 80s it was probably more readily available. That tip sure would have saved me a lot of sawing and trimming had I known it sooner.

The only thing that I can add to the conversation is that I like to use GI brass (blanks work well) as it is good for many reloads and I use a 35 cal GC upside down as has already been discussed and I've found number nine shot to work the best for me on vermin, snakes and food for the pot. Six grains of 231 has operated the 1911A1 to perfection in several different GI issue 1911A1s as well as my personal Series 70 Government Model.

Before turning in our 1911A1s for the M9 pistols, I always took a couple of magazines of shot loads with me when deploying overseas and they were very useful for adding additional protein to the menu when in the field.

[rcav8r]

Question here: When using cardboard over powder wads, are you seating them at the bottom of the bottleneck, or pushing them all the way down onto the powder?

[littlejack]

rcav8r:
You must seat the card wad, (opw) (over powder wad) directly down on the powder charge. There will be room for very little shot if you don't.
The same as you would as if you were loading shotgun shells.
Jack

[rcav8r]

Having read through this thread a couple of times, looking at the PDF of the articles and prints, etc, this was something I wanted to do. The easy way out would be to spend $50 on a .40 die set. Luckily for me, they aren't in stock. This would have been the easiest method.
So I put some thought into making my own. I'm a moldmaker, so machining isn't a problem. However, we didn't have any metric drill bits, at least not the sizes needed. Nor did I want to use boring bars for what I'd consider a casual project. I did a lot of thinking and staring at a drill and tap chart, and case dimension sheets for .45 ACP and .40 S&W.

I decided to try this:
I took a length of 7/8 cold rolled, threaded it for 7/8-14 for its entire length (finished length was 2.25", btw). I drilled through with a 27/64 drill, then ran a 7/16 reamer through for a good finish. This would be the only portion that needs a decent finish because it forms the neck and "capsule". Then I drilled a 31/64 drill .750 deep (flute depth, not including tip). This end would go around the case.
For the other end, I drilled and tapped for 1/2-20 threads, 1" deep.

I also made a "decrimper/wad seater" punch, but didn't think it through. I made the shank of the punch .410 diameter, 1" long, and the threaded 1/2-20 portion 1" long. I should have made the threaded portion longer, it's too short. Should also make it out of hex stock, or weld a nut to it next time (or mill flats on sides).

So anyway, This morning, I gave my new die a try. Started with some 7mm-08 range pickups (BTW, all the brass I tried, I annealed, probably too much...these are just for test anyway, and also used my homebrew lanolin case lube).

First case crumpled, not sure why, unless I bent the main body out of round with the pliers while annealing or something. The subsequent 5 cases worked just fine! Then I dug out some greek 30-06 brass in my reject can-These were definitely out of round, cause I crimped them with a pliers so they wouldn't be reused, but might have been usable if cut down. The one I tried crumpled because of the out of round. I put the other case aside for later, when I can cut it down.

Then I tried a couple of .243 cases, these worked just fine, and I have a small supply of .243 brass (and no .243 rifle), so I'd be set for awhile.

I also tried a couple of .308 milsurp cases, South African I think...and no problem!

L to R 7mm-08, .243, and .308 (or 7.62 for the purists)
81190

You can see the vertical marks on the case necks where they sized down. Polishing this would help. They seat just fine in my XD45 and Taurus MP145 barrels.

I'm going to make a couple of changes to current die. First, I'm going to shorten the base end. Right now, the shell holder is just touching the die bottom. I need to take a little more off. It's possible chamber might be more that .750 dp, but I will take a little more off the bottom. 2nd, I'm going to mill some flats on the sides of the top for a wrench. The threads on the die are a little fat it seems (didn't have a ring to check threads when I made it), so need to get a 3/4 wrench to fit. Using hex stock here too would have helped, but we didn't have any of the right size on hand.
And of course, I will chase the 7/8-14 threads a little tighter so they won't be so tight in the press.

Other to do:

Make a new decrimper/wad seating punch.

I will use my .45ACP round nose die for crimping.

I intend to use a 7/16 punch to cut out wads from cardboard.

The brass were sized in a Lee single stage reloading press. So you can see, it doesn't take a lot of pressure to form these cases.

This is about all I can do this weekend, got family stuff to do.

[Alan in GA]

Now that's just NEAT stuff right there!

[smoked turkey]

rcav8r: I totally agree. That is an awesome project and from the looks of the cases it appears you did a very good job. My curiosity wants you to post some pictures of your project dies when the time is right. I'd like to see your work!

[rcav8r]

Just a quick update, before I left on the family vacation, I ran a 7.62 case through the die w/o annealing, just lube. No problems at all, just a little more resistance. In the future though, I'd do the annealing, simply because there will be some movement that's going to be there when the shell is fired, and the crimping/decrimping.

ETA: I'll get some more pics posted, hopefully later this week when I do the finishing touches on the die.

[rcav8r]

Here's some pics of the updated die. In the first one, the die was shortened to 2.15" overall, the threads cut tighter, and flats milled at the top for a 3/4" wrench. You can also see the decrimper/wad seater I made. Also a nut, which I'm not sure will be necessary, but I was setup for the hex stock, so I made one, just in case.

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p782/3orangecats/shotshelldie1_zpsb3181ada.jpg

Here's a shot of the separate die and seater.

81467

And a shot of the die set up in my little old lee press, at working height.

http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p782/3orangecats/shotshelldie3_zpse452a16b.jpg

The hex stock was a oddball size at .680" at the flats. I think it got pulled out of a machine or something. In the 1st pic, the seater is bottomed out on the internal threads. I don't know if that'll be deep enough, but I can always cut back more threads on the seater for more depth.

My next step is to cut down the cases and trim to length-that may involve machining a custom pilot for my forstner trimmer. I have no idea what the inside diameter of the case mouth will be at this time, or even if the decrimper will be the right diameter. But that's OK, that was the easiest part to make, other than the nut.

[smoked turkey]

rcav8r that is some neat work. Looks like you did an excellent job. I am working on some 16 ga brass loads now for turkey season. Then comes deer season that I need to do some load work up on. Hopefully I can get back on the 45 shotshell loads after all that. Thanks for posting and your photos are excellent too btw.

[BossHoss]

I was told some of you on this project may need 45 WIN MAG brass. I have a sale thread going in Swap and Sell , 45 WIN Mag brass $17 dollars a hundred.

If interested the thread is here....http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?215501-BRASS-Small-Lot-9MM-38spl-357-44mag-45-ACP-45-Winmag-40SW

Thanks.

[dbosman]

For those with a trim die and a hacksaw you can make the hacksaw safe by filing one side smooth.

[smoked turkey]

BossHoss: you posted-"I was told some of you on this project may need 45 WIN MAG brass. I have a sale thread going in Swap and Sell , 45 WIN Mag brass $17 dollars a hundred."
I just want to say that I did do a few cases using 45 Win mag cases such as you have. In my case they came out a little long and needed some trimming, but other than that they worked well for me. When I return to this project after deer season, if you still have some I may give you a shout. Thanks for posting.

dbosman: Thanks for the tip on the trim saw blade. definitely need to do this next time.

rcav8r: those are some good looking dies you made. How do you seal the shot card in? Something I may experiment with is what I have been doing with my brass shotshells in my 16 ga. I use the product known as waterglass to glue the o/s card in. I see no reason why it won't work with this. Undoubtedly will have to use a small roll crimp to enhance cartridge feeding, but using the waterglass will seal the card in much better. I don't crimp the brass 16s in any way and it works great for me. My set up accounted for two long beards this turkey season.

[rcav8r]

ST: I haven't moved forward on this project yet, working on other things. Still need to cut down the cases and trim to length (haven't decided length yet), then final trim on the trimmer. Might have to make a custom pilot for that? we'll see!
I plan to simply crimp the shot card with the .45ACP round nose seating die. If that doesn't work for me, I'm thinking about making a simple die that has a shallow 7/16" hole drilled in in, and a much narrower through hole (1/4"?). I'm thinking the 118 degree point of the drill bit might be enough to crimp it.
As an alternative, possibly finish drilling it with a 7/16" round nose mill if I can find one here at work. That way I can put as much crimp into it as I want, not that it should need much.

[boltaction308]

I have created a web page with as much info as I can find about reloading the 45 ACP shotshell

http://www.avr-developers.com/45shotshell/

[fivegunner]

I was playing with this idea back in the 80`s I bought the rcbs dies and a thousand military 7.62 once fired , I shot maybe 2 hundred and put the project away till now , I think I might try having some fun on the loading bench! thanks:castmine::Fire::Fire:

[GRUMPA]

Figure I would update my findings and let all of those interested what my findings were.

I trimmed the cases down to 1.200 this time which is .060 shorter than what I used to trim them to. I changed the powder from Bullseye to Win. 231 and still used the 6gr charge weight.

I did the over powder wad the same which is real tiring when doing 100 of them.

This time I used some #12 shot I didn't know I had and wished I didn't. I got a charge weight of 135gr of shot in the case and topped it with a 35cal .010 thick aluminum gas check and crimped. After I got done loading the shot in the cases I went and checked what kind of price that #12 shot goes for. HOLY COW!!!......I think I'll stick with #8 in the future.

I had access to another 1911 other than my own. This time they ejected and fed just perfect in both the 1911's I used. I was using a cardboard box to check patterns with and they all did fairly well at 15'. I stood back to 25' and checked the pattern again and it really opened up. So it seems I got it working just fine for me but I would have to think a bit if I would ever want to try any shot over 15' with them, seems anything over that and patterns open up considerably.

[Finster101]

Grumpa, try mixing some of the #8 and #12 together. I made some .357 shot loads using the CCI capsules for a friend a while back and purchased a small quantity of mixed shot from a forum member, it packed very tight in the capsules and patterned nicely as well.

James

[Ratau]

.357Maximum cases works for .357Magnum.

[carbine86]

Has anyone tried doing wax slugs with this. If so any pointers? When I get all set up to try these if no one has tried the wax slugs I will post my findings on them.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Good idea. Keep us posted on your results please.

[chrissy4560]

i wonder if you changed your recoil spring if you could get it to cycle...

[Nashvegas Welder]

Cool writeups... Gonna have to try this a bit later...

[littlejack]

Hey fellas:
I just finished loading some of the 45 acp shot loads for my stepson. I did change my recipe somewhat. Figured I would share
just in case anyone is interested.
I did post earlier on, on this thread that I made my dies about January of 2013. I used the C.E. Harris, NRA article to make the
dies from.
My first tried/proven loads were with 308 brass. I abandoned the 308 brass, and have been making them from 45 Winchester
Mag brass since then.
1. Turn the ejector groove to match 45 acp groove dimension.
2. After sizing, I flair the the case mouth. This helps get the opw started.
3. Prime the case.
4. I drop a 6 grain charge of the W231, using the Little Dandy and a #9 rotor.
5. Hand seat a .060 thick card wad, .425 dia. over the powder.
6. Weigh out 175 grains of 10-11 shot. I drop in about 1/3 of it and settle. Repeat two more times.
7. For over the shot, I use a 416 Gator check sized in the Lee push through to .410. Pointing down, it is seated with about .040-
.050 below the top of the case.
8. I then run it through the seat/crimp die to finish out the round. I made this die with a center stem, to hold the gas check in
place when crimping.

These loads are devastating to pop cans. I can imagine what they would do to a snake. What I liked about these
particular loads, is the amount of shot I was able to get into the case. I have used the Speer shot loads on rattlers before, but I
believe these will be much better, given the amount of shot in the load.
There is one glitch. There is a failure to eject (sometimes) being as these cases are long and straight after firing.
Has anyone else had this issue with their fired rounds? When they do eject, the case is ruined at the mouth.
I really don't care about saving the brass, but would like the empties to exit totally.
Any input?
Regards
Jack

[GRUMPA]

I'm getting closer to doing some more experimenting with these, and I mean with the powders. The 1 thing I didn't notice was what the case length was, I never used a 45 Win Mag and more than likely never will. I found out when I cut them a tad shorter I had better ejection, and I'm not getting any distortion at all.

I have a limited supply of Win231 but I have AA#2 and Unique that I wanted to try out. I traded for some #9 shot and was going to use that instead of #12 which to me is over-priced. But I sure can cram an awful lot of #12 in those cases, so I'll see how much #9 I can pack in there.

When I load mine I put the primer in then the powder then the over powder wad.....then I form the neck. I got tired of the colorful language I was hearing trying to get that over powder wad down the neck. Which to me was easier and I don't hear that drunken sailor language anymore.

[littlejack]

Grumpa:
Thanks for your reply and information.
I used full length 45 magnum brass.
What do you trim your brass length too? I didn't want to go too short, for fear of failures to feed. I may have to try trimming to
get them to consistently eject.
Jack

[GRUMPA]

I used to trim mine to 2.260 and had difficulties with cycling and extracting, never did cycle the action using B-Eye. It seems B-Eye was to fast of a powder causing the case to expand to much not in the chamber but the bore itself causing the brass to seem to want to grip the rifling. That's why I went with W231 which for me worked out great since I shortened the case to 2.200 and tried it with 2 different 1911's without an issue.

I had someone stop by and tried the loads in his 1911 and it wouldn't cycle his. But he told be it had a real heavy spring in it. Mine has the original spring, so that's why I didn't have any problems.

What I want to do is try different powders to find out if I can get some flexibility with the powders I have on hand. I feel I have the case length right so now I want to try different powders.

[littlejack]

My case length is 1.180.
I will shoot some of these in my other 45. Maybe the ejection glitch is just that particular pistol?

[George Tucker]

I use uncut 45 Win Mag cases, and #12 shot, kills Snakes better than any other size I tried, I shoot them in a Glock21, changed the Spring, and never have eject problems. I use a set of the old RCBS Dies.

[littlejack]

Thanks for the information George.
The spring is not the issue. I believe that it is the sharp edge of the case mouth that is getting hung up on the ejection port.

[taco650]

Could this be done for 9mm or. 40?

[xfoxofshogo]

i have done 9mm but ran in to you can get a lot of shot in them and the same with 40 . i did try using 9x23 or 9mm win mag brass it get stuck had some luck using 223 brass cut down


but 38spl and 357 or 44 mag works good

[GRUMPA]

Could this be done for 9mm or. 40?

Just like what was said already, making 9mm shot loads from 223 brass seems to be the easiest way. I've made them but have yet to try them since I don'town anything that small. For the 40 I was thinking of making those from 10mm cases but have yet to try it.....

[jmsj]

Let me know if this is thread drift.
I have a S&W N frame in 45 ACP, I was wondering (always dangerous) if anyone has tried leaving the .308 Win. case longer than semi-auto magazine length for use in revolvers?
I was wondering how big a payload could be used if left longer? My cylinder measures 1.537"long and about 0.080" sits behind the back of the cylinder with the moonclip installed. That could give a max C.O.A.L. of near 1.617".

Thanks,jmsj

[taco650]

Let me know if this is thread drift.
I have a S&W N frame in 45 ACP, I was wondering (always dangerous) if anyone has tried leaving the .308 Win. case longer than semi-auto magazine length for use in revolvers?
I was wondering how big a payload could be used if left longer? My cylinder measures 1.537"long and about 0.080" sits behind the back of the cylinder with the moonclip installed. That could give a max C.O.A.L. of near 1.617".

Thanks,jmsj

Just speculating but your proposal sounds like it would add a little more "payload" room because you're building the cases to fit your revolver. Make a few to fit your cylinder and trim them just short enough so it can rotate.

[willie_pete]

Let me know if this is thread drift.
I have a S&W N frame in 45 ACP, I was wondering (always dangerous) if anyone has tried leaving the .308 Win. case longer than semi-auto magazine length for use in revolvers?
I was wondering how big a payload could be used if left longer? My cylinder measures 1.537"long and about 0.080" sits behind the back of the cylinder with the moonclip installed. That could give a max C.O.A.L. of near 1.617".

Thanks,jmsj

I've done this with a 625 I have. I don't have the dimensions close by, but sized the top of the cut brass down with a .44 sizing die to fit the cylinder. Hasn't been a problem.

WP

[KRC]

Just like what was said already, making 9mm shot loads from 223 brass seems to be the easiest way. I've made them but have yet to try them since I don'town anything that small. For the 40 I was thinking of making those from 10mm cases but have yet to try it.....

You should try it with 6.8 spc brass it should have the same extractor grove and you'll have more to work with. If you have that many 10mm brass to deface I'll take them off your hands

[Alan in Vermont]

Well, I've been bitten by the bug!

I started with 308 cases. I don't have any 40 dies so I started witha 30-30 FL die. That one was too sharp cornered and was gouging the cases. I had bored out my 30-30 seater to give it some "funnel" so it would be easier to start cases with a boolit balanced on the mouth into the die. That worked great as the funnel started the new "neck" more centered on the case body and resulted in 14 formed cases with no loss.

I tried them all in a Lyman 45 ACP cartridge gauge and got the "shoulder" right so the cases fit in the gauge properly. I cut them to rough length with a 32 tooth hacksaw then trimmed to length and tried them in my barrel. They dropped in flush to the hood so I primed them and loaded one with 6.0 BE, a thin cardboard wad cut from a SFRB, and found there was room for 140 grs of #9 shot.

It was when I went to crimp the case mouths that I remembered I had loaned my 45 dies to another shooter. ARGH!!! The dies will be home in the morning so I will complete a few tomorrow evening.

I will get pics tomorrow as well.

[Alan in Vermont]

SUCCESS!! I test fired four rounds yesterday morning, they fed and cycled the gun flawlessly.

I had to drop the shot charge back to 130 grs., at 140 there wasn't room enough for the overshot wad.

Had issues getting the crimp to work. The RN seater was coming down right on the case mouth instead of just outside it. I ended up using a powder drop tube I made years ago and it has a an internal taper on the end that screws into the measure. The taper started large enough to turn the case mouth in, whack-a-mole style, enough for the RN seater to roll it in further.

I'm starting a batch of 50 now. I had 14 cases formed in the initial experimenting. No more 308 on hand but had 7mm-08 and 243 cases enough to make a full box.

Even got a pic of the forming in progress. Left to right, an original 7mm-08 case. A 243 case with the shoulder formed and set back, this case seats flush in my cartridge gauge and barrel. A fresh case, trimmed to length and primed. Lastly a fired case, It shows faint rifling marks on the neck but didn't grab the rifling enough to hinder extraction.

[taco650]

SUCCESS!! I test fired four rounds yesterday morning, they fed and cycled the gun flawlessly.

I had to drop the shot charge back to 130 grs., at 140 there wasn't room enough for the overshot wad.

Had issues getting the crimp to work. The RN seater was coming down right on the case mouth instead of just outside it. I ended up using a powder drop tube I made years ago and it has a an internal taper on the end that screws into the measure. The taper started large enough to turn the case mouth in, whack-a-mole style, enough for the RN seater to roll it in further.

I'm starting a batch of 50 now. I had 14 cases formed in the initial experimenting. No more 308 on hand but had 7mm-08 and 243 cases enough to make a full box.

Even got a pic of the forming in progress. Left to right, an original 7mm-08 case. A 243 case with the shoulder formed and set back, this case seats flush in my cartridge gauge and barrel. A fresh case, trimmed to length and primed. Lastly a fired case, It shows faint rifling marks on the neck but didn't grad the rifling enough to hinder extraction.

Great job! Congrats!

[Alan in Vermont]

Today I tried firing my some of myshotshells again. After the initial test, where four of them all cycled the gun, today was a bitter disappointment. Nothing was cycling right!

Before I loaded my next test rounds I annealed the cases. First by using a torch and got varying degrees of annealing colors showing up. After that I did a second batch of cases and annealed them by dipping the necks in 750° lead. Had better uniformity so I think that is the way to go.

Today I tried both the original 6 gr BE loads and others with 5.5 gr BE loads. Fired the 5.5 loads first and wasn't upset when they failed to cycle but the 6 gr loads failed as well. Only thing that has changed is the annealing, the initial four rounds were not annealed.

Maybe the softer necks are grabbing the rifling just enough to slow the slide down below the minimum energy level needed for cycling? Several of the rounds fired today failed to clear the barrel hood, others just never cycled far enough to get the case out of the chamber and the slide went into battery on the fired case.

I'm going to make up a few more, leaving the brass un-annealed this time.

Grumpa, have you gotten any further with your testing of WW 231? I wonder how 231 compares to WST as I don't have any 231 but have a couple pounds of WST.

I have obtained some #12 shot which I will hold off on using until I get the cycling issue sorted out.

I have written RCBS about a new seater stem. Mine was knife-edge thin at the tip and has flared out from forming the crimp. That changed the shape just enough that it went to crushing cases. I hate to see them turned into scrap on the very last step of the forming/loading process.

BTW, I charged powder and seated the OPW before I formed the neck this last batch. Sure makes the job easier that way.

[Johnny_V]

Today I tried firing my some of myshotshells again. After the initial test, where four of them all cycled the gun, today was a bitter disappointment. Nothing was cycling right!

Before I loaded my next test rounds I annealed the cases. First by using a torch and got varying degrees of annealing colors showing up. After that I did a second batch of cases and annealed them by dipping the necks in 750° lead. Had better uniformity so I think that is the way to go.

Today I tried both the original 6 gr BE loads and others with 5.5 gr BE loads. Fired the 5.5 loads first and wasn't upset when they failed to cycle but the 6 gr loads failed as well. Only thing that has changed is the annealing, the initial four rounds were not annealed.

Maybe the softer necks are grabbing the rifling just enough to slow the slide down below the minimum energy level needed for cycling? Several of the rounds fired today failed to clear the barrel hood, others just never cycled far enough to get the case out of the chamber and the slide went into battery on the fired case.

I'm going to make up a few more, leaving the brass un-annealed this time.

Grumpa, have you gotten any further with your testing of WW 231? I wonder how 231 compares to WST as I don't have any 231 but have a couple pounds of WST.

I have obtained some #12 shot which I will hold off on using until I get the cycling issue sorted out.

I have written RCBS about a new seater stem. Mine was knife-edge thin at the tip and has flared out from forming the crimp. That changed the shape just enough that it went to crushing cases. I hate to see them turned into scrap on the very last step of the forming/loading process.

BTW, I charged powder and seated the OPW before I formed the neck this last batch. Sure makes the job easier that way.

Alan,

I have been following this thread for some time now and have asked quite a few fellow shooters about this. One fellow told me he had cycling problems using the cardboard over powder wads and cardboard over shot cards. He went on to tell me that his best results came from using the 410 wad cut to 3/4" (not remembering the exact load) and the 37 caliber gas check. It was his belief that this combination gave the pressure needed to cycle the action.

Currently I am working on my own setup for creating 45ACP Shotshells (My Way). (Grumpa - Sorry for using your catch phrase) When I get my technique down to a science, I'll be posting my results......

[GRUMPA]

Alan, I tried a couple of different powders, both of which were complete failures in the cycling the action dept. 1 of them was AA#2 and I can't remember the other off hand. I know I wrote notes so I'll have to read those.

Annealing from what I've experienced does indeed want to grab the rifling and does so rather well so I abandoned the annealing all together.

Now keep in mind when I tried the different powder I was using #9 shot which by weight is less than using #12 shot. I got some #9 in a trade and wanted to use that. I'm also considering using commercial brass because some will hold just a bit more payload than mil brass. I was noticing the slide wasn't really moving back very far when using the other powders.

In the end it seems 231 is the best powder for this project. And now I use a 35cal aluminum gas check for the over shot card and it forms rather well when crimped in place. I still use the cardboard over powder wad and I put the primer, powder, and over powder wad in first then I form the neck, saves on the colorful drunken sailor talk.

Right now I'm up to my neck in conversions as well as working on 2 new cartridges for the AR platform so this sits on the back burner for now. But I'm thinking I'll need to stay with using #12 shot for maximum payload, seems the heavier the payload the better they work.

[Boogieman]

I've found Grumpa is right about annealing the cases. The rifling grabs them & slows extracting .I tried ww231 powder couldn't get it to function. Went to Unique, 5.2gr., it worked fine, but if I went higher they wouldn't eject . I use a ww410 wad cut to .750 with #8 shot.

[Johnny_V]

I have been watching this thread and studying everybody's ideas and incorporated a few of my own into my set of Custom 45 ACP Shotshell dies. Range testing to follow.
114215

[taco650]

Wish I could make these for 9mm & 40sw

[GRUMPA]

Wish I could make these for 9mm & 40sw

Use 223 brass for 9mm shot loads.

[taco650]

Use 223 brass for 9mm shot loads.

I recently checked the head diameters on the 223 & 9mm and the 223 is a little smaller so I was wondering if 223 brass would extract ok even though its smaller.

[GRUMPA]

I had someone else test them for me, which was all of 6 rounds. He said they worked just fine but had to manually cycle the action. I'm sorry to say I don't own anything that small, and personally wont either.

He was all hot to trot to have me make more for him, and his buddies, and a few relatives, a bunch of friends, a few neighbors, and of course all there friends and so on. Heck I just wanted to see if I could do it and make notes and be done with it.

[jakec]

He was all hot to trot to have me make more for him, and his buddies, and a few relatives, a bunch of friends, a few neighbors, and of course all there friends and so on. Heck I just wanted to see if I could do it and make notes and be done with it.
i have friends like that. and since its "only a few" they think it should be free.

[Johnny_V]

I have been watching this thread and studying everybody's ideas and incorporated a few of my own into my set of Custom 45 ACP Shotshell dies. Range testing to follow.
114215

Went to the range today and was happy with the results, but unhappy at the same time. The shotshells performed excellent out of my 1911, but not my friends H&K USP Compact. Seems the H&K has a much stiffer recoil spring, plus there is a slight hitch when racking his slide, so everything we fired from his patterned well, but failed to fully eject. Out of my 1911, the pattern was also good and the action cycled perfectly (much smoother than the H&K). One thing I'm definitely not happy with is the fact that I believe these cases are good for maybe 2 loadings at most, as the neck shows signs of cracking from fire forming. I don't think annealing is the cure, but I may have a work around for this and will keep you updated.

The load we used was:
6gr of Winchester 231
½oz 410 wad cut to ¾"
97gr of #9 shot
.375 gas check over shot (cup down)
Roll crimp w/gas check seater
114509 114510

[taco650]

What could fix the neck cracking?

[skeettx]

For 357 Mag, I use cylinder length 223 brass and a snap ring for ejection :)
Mike

[rcav8r]

Now that summers over, I've been looking at this again, and checking in on this thread. Just today bought the HF 2" cutoff saw. Trimmed one case a little bigger than 1.20" inches, intending to trim it to 1.20". However, none of the pilots I have on hand will fit inside the case mouth, about .390 or so. So I'll be making a pilot sometime this week.
I will also be making a simple crimping die. I tried using the RN seating die, but the lips of the RN insert seems to be exactly the diameter of the case mouth.

[GRUMPA]

Might want to consider using the 40cal sizer to form the neck first then trim. That way all you need is a 40cal pilot which I'm sure you have..

[rcav8r]

Actually, I don't. ;)
for some reason, all I have are too big or too small, probably cause I don't shoot any .40 caliber.

Upthread are the pics of my custom forming die.

[rcav8r]

Made the pilot on Monday, and the roll crimper on Tuesday.
Found out, saw the cases much shorter than I was! Lots of work trimming the ones I had, down!

Testing on a .308 berdan primed case shows the crimper looks like it will work. I drilled the die 15/32, and finished it with a resharpened straight ball mill that measured .470 diameter. The hole is about 3/4" deep, the die is about 1-5/8" overall, with flats milled on the top sides for a 3/4" wrench if needed, much like the sizing die I posted in this thread.

Got 10 test cases trimmed and primed today, won't have time to work on this more until Friday at least. Only have 231 on hand, and some #8 shot.

Actually, I have a bottle of unknown powder in a MEC bottle on hand, which I think is unique, but no way of telling now!

[Johnny_V]

What could fix the neck cracking?

E mailed Manson reamers and Dave Manson suggested a slight bevel of 45º at where the 45ACP headspaces. Not so much though as to cause the standard 45 not to properly headspace. I may try this when funds permit.

Also, we bumped up the charge to 6.5gr of W231 and my friend's H&K USP Compact functions flawlessly, patterns good, and shows no signs of excess pressure.

[ncbearman]

Thanks Grumpa. This was fun. I made 60 rounds and gave them out as Christmas presents. I used a clear overshot card so they could see that it is a "snake load". All were impressed! Case conversion is awesome!
126196

[jmorris]

My operation uses only one die, a 44 mag die I modified. 1st pass sizes the case then install the wad seater for the 2nd pass, after powder charge, then the crimp arbor for the 3rd pass.

I counter drilled a hole in a plastic drop I had to cut the wads to length with a razor a small hole goes all the war through so the wad seating stem can push the out of the jig.

The fastest way I found to trim cases to length (well at least fastest for only a hand full of cases) was the section of steel at the bottom. The thumb screw holds the case in the extractor grove so it won't spin as the bandsaw makes a cut that is a little proud then sand it flush on a disk sander.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126198&d=1420313893

[Fla9-40]

How are you guys getting the case in a 40s&w die to form the neck? My brass after cutting it, running it through the .45acp sizing die will not fit in my .40 sizing die, or my 41 mag seating die?

[sparky45]

Would 45 magnum cases work to make 45 shot shells?

[Johnny_V]

How are you guys getting the case in a 40s&w die to form the neck? My brass after cutting it, running it through the .45acp sizing die will not fit in my .40 sizing die, or my 41 mag seating die?
I don't know how the other guys do it, but I use a Dillon 40cal crimp die (take a look at my post). First I size my case and cut to length, trim on my Forster trimmer, prime, charge, seat the wad, fill with shot, now I run it into the Dillon 40cal crimp die (to form the neck), insert a gas check, then crimp, then one more time through the 40cal crimp die and voila, it's done. That's how I do it, but I'm sure there are many more ways to skin this cat.

[Fla9-40]

I don't know how the other guys do it, but I use a Dillon 40cal sizer (take a look at my post). First I size my case and cut to length, trim on my Forster trimmer, prime, charge, seat the wad, fill with shot, now I run it into the Dillon 40cal crimp, insert a gas check, then crimp, then one more time through the 40cal crimp die and voila, it's done. That's how I do it, but I'm sure there are many more ways to skin this cat.

Using .243 or .308 brass

I for the life of me can not get the brass to go into a .40 or .41mag die it just will not fit! I have crushed every piece of brass that I have tried (in the 41 mag). The brass will not start in the .40s&w die at all.

I trim the brass, Chamfer and De-burr then run it in my 45acp sizing die and then try it in the 41mag, no go crushed it every time. Tried the .40 and it will not even try to start into this die...

[dsbock]

Does one brand of sizer die have a more radiused mouth? Making it easier to feed the brass?

I'd like to know before I buy the sizer die.

Thanks.

David

[GRUMPA]

I use the 40cal RCBS carbide sizer die, and it does have a pretty good sized radius on it. You guys might want to try a .451 push through sizer LEE die if you have it and then follow it with the 40cal die....

[Michael J. Spangler]

I size my brass before trimming it down to length.
The 308 neck slides right into the 40 cal die nice and easy. Then trim the thin necks.

[Johnny_V]

The Dillon crimp die has the most generous radius of any of the crimp dies. If you can't get your case to fit the Dillon die, there is something definitely a miss.

[littlejack]

sparky45:
45 Magnum brass works great. I made all of my 45 shot loads with that brass. It has more internal room, and you can get quite a bit more shot payload in it.

[Johnny_V]

I finally made a video of how I make 45ACP shotshells and posted it on You Tube. You can view it here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJQZ2h-jmmo). Let me know what you think....

[sparky45]

Thanks Littlejack, that's what I was hoping for.
S45

[sparky45]

I finally made a video of how I make 45ACP shotshells and posted it on You Tube. You can view it here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJQZ2h-jmmo). Let me know what you think....
First off, excellent video. Secondly I have a "stupid" question: I either missed the information or forgot, or both; but I assume the gas check is a 40 cal check, yes? And, thirdly, super set of fabricated dies. It would be really nice to have a machine shop and the skill to make this type of equipment.
S45

[Johnny_V]

First off, excellent video. Secondly I have a "stupid" question: I either missed the information or forgot, or both; but I assume the gas check is a 40 cal check, yes? And, thirdly, super set of fabricated dies. It would be really nice to have a machine shop and the skill to make this type of equipment.
S45

Sparky,

Thank you.... Not a stupid question, it's a .375 gas check. I agree, it sure is nice to have the machines to do this type of project....

[sparky45]

Thanks Johnny for the info.
S45

[RoyEllis]

I use the 40cal RCBS carbide sizer die, and it does have a pretty good sized radius on it. You guys might want to try a .451 push through sizer LEE die if you have it and then follow it with the 40cal die....
Grumpa, I don't have anything in 40 or 41 cal to need those dies so I subbed my 44 mag sizer to start the neck down then use my lee .432 boolit sizer to bring them the rest of the way down and final crimp with 44 seater die. It's a bit fiddly getting dies set to neck down just right so case headspaces correctly, but it sure works. Just a thought for anybody w/o 40 dies but have 44 dies.
I also make cyl. length shot shells for my SBH 44 from '06 or .308 cases. Anneal then size w/44 die (it'll stop about .200 above extractor groove) then chuck up drill press & carefully file away hump above ext. groove w/press @ med speed, run through sizer again to size to groove. Isn't much overhang from head, but enough to catch on cylinder face. I use 44 sp data usually Bullseye or Red Dot chg starting load appropriate to weight of shot charge, card wad top & bottom (top sealed with white glue after crimp). Makes a pretty good shot shell for .44's, almost like a 1.75" .410 shell. YMMV but I get best patterns with fairly slow loads, they seem to blow apart if pushed fast.

[vicdoc]

I have been reading the castboolits threads on these shotshells for a month and thought they're neat, and "I can do that".

So I have been fiddling around in the garage.

I first used a pipe cutter to cut the brass. After getting tired of that I bought a HF 2" chop saw and made a wood jig for that. My fingers are happier.
138633

For neck sizing I bought Lee carbide 41 magnum dies. I size full length resized 308 brass before cutting them with lots of lube. I make fewer bad cases this way. For the most part the necking is concentric.
138632

I have no W231, but lots of other choices, like 700X, Bullseye, Unique, and 2# of International Clays I have no other possible use for.

I used card wads over the powder, and now I use 45 cal Wonder Wads, and 45 cal Vegetable fiber wads both meant for black powder. Leading is an issue with these wads, but less so than with the card wads I punched out. I use a 38-55 vegatable wad for over the shot. It's great. I'm thinking of smearing some Bore Butter on the shot before putting on the over shot wad and see if that helps the leading. I like the idea of shot cups but I think 115 to 120 gr of shot is what I need to get the things to cycle my gun.

I use a piece of 3/8" dowel for tamping the wads, inside and on top.

I have used between 95 to 120gr of 7-1/2 shot. The more the better.

The crimp was the hard part.

I radiussed the end of an old 223 die with my Dremel tool first, that sort of worked, then I bought a 7/16" carbide ball end mill and smoothed that out so it works wonderful with the right amount of force..
Here's my die after one round of smoothing, before I smoothed it out some more:
138631

You do have to be careful about how the case enters the mouth of the die, it's easy to go off center and ruin the brass.

The roll crimp takes some practice, the feel is a lot like a primer seating, but too much and my crimps look weird. They still work, though.

I might have to try annealing the mouth for more consistent extraction. I don't have a torch, maybe I'll figure out a way to do it on my gas stove.

For the most part, my Para P-14/45 likes these better than my Glock G30S.

Here are some I made up today beside some old CCIs I still have. Thank you folks here for helping me.
138629

[dsbock]

Vicdoc,

Can you describe how you made the jig?

Thanks.

David

[vicdoc]

Vicdoc,

Can you describe how you made the jig?

Thanks.

David
It's a piece of wood baseboard molding, turned upside down. You remove the clamp of the HF chopsaw, and screw it in place (from underneath) after deciding where to put the grooved molding or wood channel for the case. It is positioned just forward of the red plastic safety lock.

The white molding is garage door weather seal.

You can make something out of wood with a router, with a groove for the cartridge.

The screw near the blade prevents the case from being drawn away while the blade is cutting it.

The rear screw is placed so that the bevel of the head can adjust the length of cut.

It works, sort of.

The garage door molding is a tiny bit flexible, how you press down affects the straightness of the cut, so I've learned how much pressure to put to get a level cut after some practice.

I think a better model will be made out of wood when I break out my router. A router is a scary machine, I just mainly wanted to get up a jig quickly and it does work. I cut 10 good cases last night, and 2 short ones. Even they didn't go to waste. I practiced the crimp on those.

If you have a case trimmer, then this works great. Just cut a bit long and trim to size.

There are some videos of very nicely done jigs out there for 300BLK case cutting, even automated ones, for those who want to spend the time and money.

[GunFun]

Great write up. I really like that this works with tools and brass that I already have, and doesn't require glue or isenglas.

[GunFun]

I had someone else test them for me, which was all of 6 rounds. He said they worked just fine but had to manually cycle the action. I'm sorry to say I don't own anything that small, and personally wont either.

He was all hot to trot to have me make more for him, and his buddies, and a few relatives, a bunch of friends, a few neighbors, and of course all there friends and so on. Heck I just wanted to see if I could do it and make notes and be done with it.


Did you share those notes somewhere? I'd like to have a look.

[GRUMPA]

Did you share those notes somewhere? I'd like to have a look.


No I didn't since I used a special tool for crimping the 9mm shot loads. If you go into the swaging section and look at the sticky I have on 40 to 45cal swaging, and look at the pictures, that's what a "Notching" die does. Forming those up was the same as the 45 shot shells, it was closing the end that I used the notching die on. It pretty much looked like a shrunken down 5.56 blank

[GunFun]

I think I have read that thread. Basically the same idea as a crimp starter for plastic shotshells.

[dsbock]

I bought a .41 Magnum carbide sizer die and resized a few cases. I tested on both cut and uncut cases using plenty of lube.

The first uncut case sized perfectly. After that they all seemed to size more on one side than the other. In some cases there was almost no sizing on one side.

Same thing happened with the cut cases. If there's a trick to this, I haven't found it yet.

If anyone had any suggestions on improving the concentricity of my sizing, I'm eager to learn.

Thanks.

David

[GRUMPA]

I'm using a RCBS 40cal/10mm carbide sizing die, always worked for me. I have a 41mag sizer die and ran into the same issue you have....

The die I have has a rather generous radius, which seems to guide the sizing process rather well.

[dsbock]

Any idea what causes the cases to upset to one side?

I'll have to get a RCBS 40cal/10mm carbide sizing die and try with that one.

Thanks.

David

[William Yanda]

For those with a trim die and a hacksaw you can make the hacksaw safe by filing one side smooth.

I may use this tip. Marring the jig has been a concern in my mind.
Bill

[Johnny_V]

I bought a .41 Magnum carbide sizer die and resized a few cases. I tested on both cut and uncut cases using plenty of lube.

The first uncut case sized perfectly. After that they all seemed to size more on one side than the other. In some cases there was almost no sizing on one side.

Same thing happened with the cut cases. If there's a trick to this, I haven't found it yet.

If anyone had any suggestions on improving the concentricity of my sizing, I'm eager to learn.

Thanks.

David

The key to concentricity, is to trim the cases before sizing. After rough cutting to length with a trim die, I finish the case in my Forster case trimmer. I use the Dillon, .40 S&W Crimp Die (most generous mouth flare of any .40 die out there) and having made over 200 of these, concentricity has never been an issue. Remember, if the case mouth doesn't enter the die squarely (any die, regardless of manufacturer), you will never see concentric case necks, with this or any other caliber.

[dsbock]

The key to concentricity, is to trim the cases before sizing. After rough cutting to length with a trim die, I finish the case in my Forster case trimmer. I use the Dillon, .40 S&W Crimp Die (most generous mouth flare of any .40 die out there) and having made over 200 of these, concentricity has never been an issue. Remember, if the case mouth doesn't enter the die squarely (any die, regardless of manufacturer), you will never see concentric case necks, with this or any other caliber.

Johnny,

I tried this with both cut and uncut cases, the only one that came out sized properly was the first uncut case. After that, none of them came out right, cut or uncut.

Thanks for the suggestion.

David

[Johnny_V]

Johnny,

I tried this with both cut and uncut cases, the only one that came out sized properly was the first uncut case. After that, none of them came out right, cut or uncut.

Thanks for the suggestion.

David

Are you sizing the case first or attempting to form without sizing? My cases are sized with the trim die I made. You can make your own trim die by using a .308 Win. sizing die and cut it to length with a cutoff wheel, then squaring it up with a bench grinder. If you do this carefully, and keep the die from getting hot, you'll have a trim die just as good as a factory one. Also, I lube the case body rather generously with RCBS case lube before any trimming or forming.

Again, my procedure:
Size and trim with trim die
Trim to length with case trimmer
Prime, charge, insert wad
Run lubed case into Dillon Crimp die
Fill with shot through Crimp die
Insert Gas check
Roll crimp

I have a video on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJQZ2h-jmmo) on how I make my shotshells, if you care to watch it. Mine is not the definitive way to do these shells, just my way.

[dsbock]

Johnny,

I had not been sizing the cases before running them into the forming die. I'll give that a try next.

My test cases are old Berdan primed, Kynoch .30-06 cases. Not much else I can do with them.

Thanks for helping clarify the process.

David

[JKH]

Anyone here that would be interested in making me a batch of cases? I could supply the donor .308 brass and have lots of trade items for the labor, I am thinking 50 total. I just don't have the strength to do the forming anymore.

[GRUMPA]

Anyone here that would be interested in making me a batch odd cases? I could supply the donor .308 cases and have lots of trade items, I an thinking 50 total. I just don't have the strength to do the forming anymore.

Just click on the link in my signature, then click the 45acp thread....

[mtbugler63]

The trick I use to get them centered is to start the sizing with the .41 seating die then finish with the .41 resizing die. That has all but eliminated the centering problem for me.

[dsbock]

Here's an example of what I'm running in to:

Trimmed (for my .45 ACP revolver) and chamfered case run into .41 Mag sizing die with lots of lube;
148150

Same thing but with better results;
148151

Comparison of the two.
148152

I don't have a set of .41 Magnum dies. Just the one sizing die.

I'd really like to get this process working and make up a few loads.

Thanks for all the suggestions folks.

David

[Johnny_V]

David,

Here's a couple of pictures of what my 45ACP Shotshells look like after running them through my 40 caliber Dillon crimp die. I did nothing magical or fancy, just rough cut to length, trimmed, lubed, and sized.

148176 148177

I have to go out this morning, but I will post a video on YouTube later in the day and post a link.

[Johnny_V]

David,

Here's the link to the video on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB3QRk1gzAo) about how I form my case necks for the 45ACP Shotshell.

On YouTube, click on my name and I have another video on how I make the 45ACP Shotshell.

[Johnny_V]

David,

Just for giggles, I took 3 different cases, at random, and ran them through my 40S&W Dillon Crimp die and the results are in the following picture. The cases are from the left: Lake City .308, RP 30-06, and RP 8mm Mauser. All the cases came out concentric.

148197

[dsbock]

Maybe there's something wrong with my .41 Magnum sizing die. Out of nearly 30 cases, only two have come out reasonably concentric. One trimmed the other untrimmed.

All the others are sized only on one side of the case.

Very frustrating.

David

[Johnny_V]

David,

Do you have someone you can borrow a Dillon 40S&W crimp die from? If not, I would be happy to loan you mine. Just pay the shipping. Did you watch the video?

[dsbock]

Johnny,

I did watch your video. I've been doing everything right. I even tried three different single stage presses and two different shell holders to rule out those variables. Which is why I think there might be something wrong with the die I'm using.

Since Grumpa is using an RCBS 40S&W/10mm carbide sizing die, I'm trying to get a hold of one of those or a Dillon .40 S&W crimp die.

Thanks.

David

[Johnny_V]

David,

The offer stands, should you need the die....

[dsbock]

I picked up an RCBS 10mm Taper Crimp die at a gunshow. Tonight I got around to testing it. I ran a dozen trimmed and chamfered cases through (lubing every third or fourth case) and all 12 came out the way they're supposed to.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and support. Now to cut some over powder cards and get these loaded up.

David

[Johnny_V]

I picked up an RCBS 10mm Taper Crimp die at a gunshow. Tonight I got around to testing it. I ran a dozen trimmed and chamfered cases through (lubing every third or fourth case) and all 12 came out the way they're supposed to.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and support. Now to cut some over powder cards and get these loaded up.

David

David,

Glad to hear it worked well for you... Taking my 1911 out this morning to have some fun with some pop cans.

[SSGOldfart]

thank you for the write up Grumpa! I am going to give this a try.
Same here I guess the over shot wad would also work in my 44spl.in place of the shot capsules Speer sells.

[dsbock]

For my over powder cards, I outside chamfered a deprimed .40 S&W casing until it had a sharp edge. Chucked it up in my drill press and used it to cut disks from a sheet of waxed card stock.

I found that marking a 1/2" grid on the card stock made it much easier to cut clean disks. I also learned that you don't want to cut until the casing is full. It's a challenge to get the disks out without ruining them.

Moving ever forward.

David

[dsbock]

First batch ready for testing.
152278
5.5 grains of Bullseye under 120 grains of #8 shot. Hopefully the weather will cooperate over the next few days.

More reports as events warrant.

David

[dsbock]

Second batch ready for testing. These are cylinder length for my S&W Model 1917. Standard .45 ACP casing for scale.

152590
5.5 grains of Bullseye under 190 grains of #8 shot. Weather looks good for testing tomorrow.

More reports as events warrant.

David

[GunFun]

thanks for keeping this going.

[dsbock]

Got to the range today. Results were mixed.

Pros:
All rounds fired
Some of the rounds ejected from the 1911
Patterns were good at 10-15 feet.
I spent time at the range :-)

Cons:
The .30-06 rims are slightly too large to fit all 6 into a moon clip. 5 seems to be max
Not all the rounds ejected from the 1911
I either need a better crimp process or a better over shot wad (I'm thinking both)
Not enough time was spent at the range ;-)

More load development is needed. The two targets below were from the longer shells fired out of the S&W 1917.

David

152684152685

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

dsbok, For your overshoot card try a 35 cal. gas check (cup down).That solved my 80% cycle issue in my 1911 Gov. .Also had my best luck with W231 . added to reply, had much better luck with converted 7.62 blank hulls.

[wonderwolf]

dsbock did you have any issues with ejection out of the 1917 with the longer shells?

[dsbock]

dsbock did you have any issues with ejection out of the 1917 with the longer shells?

Wonderwolf,

Nope, none at all. While I could only get five shells to load in the moon clips, they ejected as smoothly as usual. Single loaded cases just required a slight push from the front if the rim had sunk in too far.

As soon as I recover from some surgery I'll be working on an improved version using aluminum over shot wads.

From everything I've read/heard W231 is the optimal powder. Unfortunately, I can't find any locally. Bullseye seems to work fine so far.

David

[RU shooter]

I decided to try my hand at making a few of these last night . Forming them was pretty easy I had some old 300 savage cases in my scrap bucket so I used them , didn't have the 40 die but looking at different cartridge dia I figured my 32 spl seater die would give me a suitable "neck" od dia. Have about 10 formed now just need to trim to proper length and load . That brings me to my question . I understand that you need to use an over powder wad , now do you seat that right down on top of the powder charge and fill the rest of the case up with shot ? Or just to the bottom of the necked portion of the case? If I'm only using say 3-5 grs of bullseye seems like there would be a lot of air space if I only but the OPW at the base of the neck ? And if I do seat directly on the powder what do you use as a wad because the necked portion is small dia so it would need to expand to seal off the area in the body of the case ? Someone set me straight please .

Thanks , Tim

[flyingmonkey35]

I decided to try my hand at making a few of these last night . Forming them was pretty easy I had some old 300 savage cases in my scrap bucket so I used them , didn't have the 40 die but looking at different cartridge dia I figured my 32 spl seater die would give me a suitable "neck" od dia. Have about 10 formed now just need to trim to proper length and load . That brings me to my question . I understand that you need to use an over powder wad , now do you seat that right down on top of the powder charge and fill the rest of the case up with shot ? Or just to the bottom of the necked portion of the case? If I'm only using say 3-5 grs of bullseye seems like there would be a lot of air space if I only but the OPW at the base of the neck ? And if I do seat directly on the powder what do you use as a wad because the necked portion is small dia so it would need to expand to seal off the area in the body of the case ? Someone set me straight please .

Thanks , Tim
Two wads one over the powder.
Then fill with shot.
Second over the shot and crimped in place to hold the shot in place.

[GRUMPA]

I believe at the beginning I made my own wad using a 44mag case which I hammered on a piece of cardboard for that. And yes the diameter of the case is smaller but all I used was the eraser end of the pencil to shove it down and packing all the way to the powder. A person can also use the right sized drill bit, just use the part you chuck onto and not the part that does the cutting.

Once the wad I made is now over the powder, I filled with shot.

[Johnny_V]

Tim,

If you use a plastic .410 shotshell wad, cut to 3/4", you can fill with shot after charging, then form the neck. I use this method for my shotshells with a .37 caliber gas check, then do crimp the check to seal the shell.

[RU shooter]

Thanks that clears things up for me much better . Wad directly on powder fill remainer with shot cap with another card or gc , crimp done Thank you .

[Johnny_V]

If you look a few posts back, I put a video on YouTube on how I make 45 shotshells. Not the definitive way, just my way...

[jmorris]

I too used cut down .410 wads.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140325_145002_558_zpsa27dad0f.jpg

For the over shot, I punched out circles from a shotshell.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20140324_215949_165_zps79968427.jpg

[Johnny_V]

If you form the neck after inserting the wad, you won't need to use the wad guide.

[flyingmonkey35]

I too used cut down .410 wads.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140325_145002_558_zpsa27dad0f.jpg

For the over shot, I punched out circles from a shotshell.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20140324_215949_165_zps79968427.jpg
That's a great idea

[RU shooter]

Finally got some loaded up to try out . Used 3 grs of W231 and filled the case up with 7.5 shot as it was all I had . Used a 35 cal gc for the over shot wad ,roll crimped with a rn 45 seater plug . Worked great !!! They fed from the mag with no issues at all . Patterned real well at 10 ft easily minute of reptile . With the small of powder charge of course the shell didn't eject but that's ok I can just rack the slide and pocket that case to reload. Another benefit is the fired case required no sizing and just dropped right back in to the chamber . So I'd call my first attempt a success . Thank again all for the help .

[w5pv]

I use 45C to make my shot shells.I use a 410 plastic shot wad cut down to about a 1/16 below the top of the shell insert this over 6 grains of titegroup and fill the wad up to the top with # 10 shot and insert a inverted plain base gas check over the shot and put a slight roll crimp on it.I have killed birds,snakes and lizards out to 20 feet.When I walk I carry my 45C and a few loads that come in handy for snakes and other vermin

[Diver07]

Newbie question...how does the shot fair against the riflings? Should a person be worried about any damage/risks?

[Johnny_V]

Newbie question...how does the shot fair against the riflings? Should a person be worried about any damage/risks?

Not to worry. Shot is softer than most jacketed bullets, plus if you use the shotcup method, you have an additional layer of protection with the shotcup. Hope this helps....

[Diver07]

Thanks for the info. Once I get my equipment back up and running Im going to try this....

[mold maker]

This just became more than a project for me.
For the second time this summer a large black snake appeared. This one attempted to crawl between the louvers to get onto my porch. It's totally sealed and except for the door there is no way he could get in, but both times it's happened at the time parents were picking up their preschool age children.
I don't like snakes of any kind, and Yes I know all about how they catch rats and kill other snakes. Those 2 blacks are the only snakes I've seen here bouts in many years, and I'm determined they observe my boundaries, especially where these children play. There are no rodents, only squirrels, and birds which I feed for the enjoyment of the children.
When I shoveled him off the brick he attempted to run directly toward me. Bad move because shovel handle distance is as far as he got.
I will attempt to produce the brass for these snake killers this evening, and if I can find my 2-liter bottle of shot, by tomorrow evening I'll be armed with SNAKE shot........

[jmorris]

Blue Racers (also known as black racers), I have seen them chase after rabbits and people before. If you stop or maybe trip and fall they will stop chasing you but might have already paid for a trip to snake heaven at that point. At times more aggressive than other snakes that would prefer to just get out of sight. They can get pretty long too but not as thick as other snakes. I have seen 5 ft ones that are only about an inch in diameter.

They will eat stuff that is not larger than they are so baby birds might be on the menu.

They are not poisonous but generally not welcome around folks that don't like any snake.

[justashooter]

152590
5.5 grains of Bullseye under 190 grains of #8 shot.

looks like what I make from 8X57 cases and shoot in a 1915 455 Ely conversion Smith N frame. I use 4.5 grains green dot under 200 grains 7.5 shot. 57 cases slip fit as cut to length and fire-form on first shot, but 06 cases won't fit the chambers. not enuf taper.

[skeettx]

justashooter, try sizing the cut off 06 brass in a 270 die or even a 243 Win, should put on the taper you need.

[mold maker]

I'm still having occasional problems with off center and uneven tapers, but i have several more die combos to try.
Yesterday I became the benefactor of some more 308 brass to work with.
Thanks, Coopaloop86 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?44555-Coopaloop86). It will be put to good use.

[Johnny_V]

Mold maker, are you trying to make cases for the 1911 or a revolver?

[gpidaho]

Everything worked so well for me using Grumpa's technique right up to the roll crimp then the case mouth crushed to one side. Just my first try so the problem is most likely some little thing I didn't do just right. I will say that the Speer capsules, when they are available, are a much easier, if more expensive way to make shot shells. Gp