romanian tok. questions

[txpete]

looks like I am picking up a romanian tok in 7.62X25 this month.
even with the milsurp ammo being so cheap I guess I'll end up shooting cast soon:-D .

so a little help on dies brass and a good mold ??.any info would be great thanks.
pete

[Skrenos]

Lee dies, starline brass, lee mold.

I use the Lee .312 100gr RN over 7gr IMR 800-x, CCI SP. I havent chrono'd it yet, but it's peppy, but not monsterous. can cycle a tokarev or a cz52.

I've lost my 800-x data somewhere, but I was using a LOT more of the powder for the 7.62x25mm. 7.0gr is perfectly safe and functional.

[9.3X62AL]

Check the dimensions on your Tokarev's barrel. They can vary widely, grooves from .307" to .313" are seen.

Unlike the Broomhandle C-96 and the CZ-52, the Tokarev can be a real bee-otch in terms of feed reliability. If the cartridge's OAL is less than 1.300", look forward to feed failures. Lyman #313249 runs like water through the other two pistols, but turns the Tokarev into a bolt action. The Lee 100 RN mentioned above does fine work "loaded out".

[singleshotbuff]

Pete,

I'm using a 120gr RNFP, sized .309", through my CZ-52 7.62X25. I'm using S&B brass (from factory ammo @ $11.00/50) and Lee dies. With WSP primers and 5.0grs of Unique, velocity is 1250 fps, feeding and ejection are EXCELLENT and accuracy is great.

Not sure if this will be applicable to your Tok, but thought I'd throw it out there for you.

I don't have the mould that my boolits came from, I got them in trade and I think they were from a custom GB mould. I am getting ready to buy a suitable mould in the 100-120gr range, preferably a Lee, and it has to be plain based. A lot of the moulds I looked at so far are GC designs. When I find a mould that will work, I plan to stick with Unique, and I'll let you know how it works out.

FWIW, the 7.62X25 is a very interesting handgun round. Shoots FLAT and packs plenty of wallup for vermin and small game. I have killed a couple of groundhogs with mine, and am constantly amazed at how flat the trajectory is, compared to conventional revolver or semi-auto cartridges. I think I'd draw the line at coyote sized animals however, as far as usefulness. Just my opinion.

SSB

[txpete]

I have the lyman 311359 but it isn't a rn bullet.I will check on the lee molds and dies.it will be atleast 2 weeks before it comes in.
thanks for the data.
I would think that with the speed of these rounds a harder alloy and maybe a GC should be used??.
thanks
pete

[9.3X62AL]

I've run plain-based castings (92/6/2) to full throttle (1400 FPS) without leading in the CZ and the Tok. I believe Lyman once had--and RCBS may still have--30 caliber molds of proper weight with gas check designs for this chambering.

A while back, I came across an interesting mold that might work in this caliber, Lyman #311419. It looks like #311316 with a drive band removed, and the bottom band cut as a gas check shank. It has rather small lube capacity, and I'm going to try some today before or after the Burrito Shoot in 32-20/rifle to see how they run in longer barrels. Its flat nose would enhance lethality for varmints.

As always, the main complication is getting a boolit/bullet to stay secure in the round's short neck during feedrmp contact. Starline cases do well in this regard, while Fiocchi and some reformed 9mm Win Mag brass I started with are less cooperative. Crimping is a masochistic delight with the roll-crimper in RCBS dies--a fine balance between sufficient crimp and neck tension can drive ya nutz--too much crimp, and the necks loosen up. I recently tried a new glitch to get past this issue--after bullets are seated, I use the sizer die (minus decap assembly) like a taper crimp die, which just straightens out the belled mouth (another delightful setting sequence) and gives the boolit a little tension. From this success, I've concluded that a Lee Factory Crimp Die might do some good work here.

NO KIDDING about the caliber shooting flat--and loudly. Full-potential loads have definite BARK to them, so mind your ear protection.

[txpete]

I picked it up and pretty happy.I would say its a safe bet it is unissued cond. and cosmo in romania must be cheap.camw with a nice holster,extra mag and cleaning rod.
pete

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/2007_0812tok0006.jpg

[9.3X62AL]

Pete--

It's in nice shape, for sure.

I've been running some of the Winchester White Box stuff through my Tok to create brass. It's not real spendy (~$13.50/box of 50), and the brass reloads well, about like Starline. FWIW.

[singleshotbuff]

I used to have a Tok. It was a Chinese Norinco job in 9mm. decent gun, but other things were more alluring and I traded it off (I was young and dumb back then, now just not as young lol). do I recall correctly that the safety on a Tok (or at least a Norinco) is backwards? Up to shoot, down to safe?? I'll follow your results with the 7.62X25.

I absolutely love my CZ-52, except for the VIGOROUS ejection. Damn thing throws brass EVERYWHERE and 15-30 feet from the gun. Makes finding brass for reloading a challenge.

FWIW Pete, I chronographed some S&B 85gr factories outta my CZ-52 (which I assume has a similar bbl length to your Tok) and got 1585 f.p.s. I also chronographed an old box of Norinco 90(?)gr ammo and some surplus ammo and got 1600+ f.p.s. Apparently there is some hot ammo out there, maybe some of it was made for SMGs?? Anyway, makes for a powerful, flat shootin, round. I think you'll like it.

I'd like to find some data for Win 296 powder in the 7.62X25, seems a natural at the pressure/velocity of this round.

Keep us informed of your progress please, I'm always lookin for 7.62 data.

SSB

[9.3X62AL]

SSB--

The most recent Hornady Manual has some INTREPID loads for the CZ-52. I can't recall what powders they used for some of those INSANE velocities. AA-7 has done very well for me in loads to 1400 FPS with the 85-90 grain J-words.

Those afterthought safeties on the Toks were required to enable importation. Original Toks have no safety lever. Of course, Browning's original design for what became the 1911A1 had no external safeties, either. When the Army Ordnance folks commented that such a piece was "dangerous", John Browning allegedly replied "Yes, it's dangerous--it's a weapon, isn't it? It's SUPPOSED to be dangerous!" After being requested to add a safety device to the system, Browning went back to work and in a fit of pique not only developed a thumb safety lock--but also the grip safety and a magazine disconnector, these last two to basically throw in the face of the Ordnance folks. He was absolutely mystified when the Board approved the design as submitted, with a request to delete the magazine disconnect. Supposed to be a true story, related by an FBI guy in a position to know.

After having my shooting hand chewed to pieces by that (expletives deleted) safety lever, the ChiCom Tok was "reverse-engineered" to its pre-import condition, as Comrade Tokarev and the Tula tool wielders intended. I carry it Condition 4, which complies with Soviet doctrine. If the Tok's hammer is placed in half-cock position, both the hammer and the slide are locked in place. Once you field-strip the piece, its Colt-Browning genesis is pretty obvious, with an upgrade of the lockwork being in a detachable sub-assembly.