H&R 1871 Target Classic

[Mallard57]

Hi,
I was at the Sportsman's Whse. the other day and they and they had an H&R 1871 Classic Target in 38-55. This isn't a gun I've had a burning desire for in the past but I had read that they can be hard to find and looking at the cartridge case it looked extremely cast friendly. Well to make a long story short I put some money on this rifle, since then I've read that this model is prone to have issues with throats and chambers. I might be having a mild case of buyer's remorse and I'm wondering if I should be putting my money into a new Ruger Mk III instead.
How happy are the folks that have this particular rifle?
Thanks,
Jeff

[SharpsShooter]

I have shot a friends several times and it is very accurate with
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/Lyman375248.jpg

I cast several hundred for the gent and he claims it wil group amazingly well.


Good gun at a good value.

SS

[keeper89]

I have one and I do like it even though it took a bit of experimentation to come up with an appropriate load. Mine is quite fond of 50 gr. of 2f under the Lee 265. After years of shooting cast over white, the black powder cartridge is another animal entirely but yes, it will shoot. And I got mine for just a hair over 300 bucks nib. Cheap way to try bpcr to see if you like it! I liked it so much I just acquired a roller with a premium bbl. by Douglas--and that one, while it bypassed 300 bucks in a walk, will hit the rams at 500 every time I do my part....have fun and enjoy!:Fire:

[Onlymenotu]

I have the 38-55 target rifle you speak of been shooting the LEE .379 250 grain *unsized as cast as the gun has the H&R typical .380 over spec barrel* over 45 grains of sub... with good luck I'm hoping with a little luck and one more buyer we can get the 45 2.1 381268 GB under way to see how they shoot out of it.... with all that being said I'd buy another one,,,, if that says/means anything

[Onlymenotu]

I have shot a friends several times and it is very accurate with
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/Lyman375248.jpg

I cast several hundred for the gent and he claims it wil group amazingly well.


Good gun at a good value.

SS
@ SharpsShooter nice looking boolit.... whats the make and model and as cast dia and weight plz...

[Onlymenotu]

Lyman375248.jpg...... as cast dia and weight plz i can see it should drop at 248 but what do they drop with you alloy?

[wonderwolf]

Dunno about the 38-55 but my 45-70 is really great to shoot..I just wouldnt pay more than $300 for one. Good rifle but I don't think the design is worth much more than that.

[lathesmith]

I have a 38-55 barrel on a Handi, it is loads of fun to shoot. I haven't worked up anything really potent with it, but it loves the standard 250gr Lee 375 bullet at around 1200fps, loaded with either Red dot or 700x. The Lee bullet casts out at .383 and I run it thru a .379 sizer. This load is clean as a whistle, you could shoot it all day and even the brass stays clean! Another fun load is around 2.8 gr of Bullseye, about 600 fps, good close range accuracy and very quiet. It is not as clean but it is a great load. I use reformed 30/30 brass for all these loads, it is cheap and effective.
I have never had as good accuracy with the Lyman 375248. Part of the reason was because it would only cast at .377 or so; it is just too small.

[Mallard57]

I appreciate all the input, you folks have convinced me that picking up this rifle is the right thing to do. When I get some time I'll run back down to Kennewick and pick that bad boy up. If you have one of these puppies I'd still like to hear about your rifle.
Thanks,
Jeff

[SharpsShooter]

@ SharpsShooter nice looking boolit.... whats the make and model and as cast dia and weight plz...

Pardon the delay in responding.........overlooked it somehow.

That boolit is 252gr cast of 20:1 and is.3785 diameter.

SS

[Dusty Wheeler]

This thread just convinced me to get a 38-55 barrel! Thanks!

[John Boy]

How happy are the folks that have this particular rifle?
I've hit a pallet at 800yds with mine, use it for gallery matches, shoot it regularly at 100-200 and 300yds ... Yep, like my H&R.

It is the older model with ejectors and a Green Mountain barrel. Now they come with extractors and S&W barrels.

[jim4065]

The Sportsmans Warehouse in AR has a tag of $349, but I found this on the Internet... http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/8909 .


Well the link doesn't work, but if you type "38-55" in the search box it'll take you there.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

I know mine isn't 38-55 but I am starting to really love my Buff Classic in 45/70. It shoots better than I, and anything out to just over 900 yards is no issue with it. I must admit to having a non standard rear sight...I put a Ukranian long range vernier on it; but it just plain old SHOOTS! My boolit is a SAECO 1881 cast from WW powered by 28.0 grains of H4198 with some dacron. I just came back from shooting the ND Governor's Cup shoot with mine and showed up quite a few heavy barreled Sharps and rollers there. And I don't even have a 1,000 rounds through it yet...very promising indeed.

[Onlymenotu]

I must admit to having a non standard rear sight...I put a Ukranian long range vernier on it; but it just plain old SHOOTS!


VERY INTRESTING[smilie=1: GOTA PIC OF THIS BAD BOY......?

[Mallard57]

They sure don't give those Vernier sights away, that being said I'd sure like to have one or two of them. If I remember right there were several models of these, which one fits our rifles?
Jeff

[Mallard57]

VERY INTRESTING[smilie=1: GOTA PIC OF THIS BAD BOY......?

Hi,
I was looking at these the other, they look really neat but I'm not sure which one fits what.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,237.htm
Jeff

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

I think that I put this one on.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4919.htm

After looking at the others, yup that is the one I put on. If you don't need to get out to the 1,000 yard mark, then the mid range should work for you.

I just screwed it onto the wrist of the buttstock. It takes a bit of care to get it right, but that is what I did. Inletting a piece of barstock into the wrist might work too, but I just wanted to try the simplest first. Either that or making up a tangplate to mount the sight on and pinching it between the stock and receiver with the buttstock bolt. My chosen method works well enough for me to make me get into the middle of the pack at the Governor's Cup shoot this weekend and that was with only two targets having sight-in shots being taken before shooting the match. I'm very happy.


And yup I do have some pics. Just not able to get them uploaded to the place that I use for pics. I could email them directly to you if you want.

[lovedogs]

Hey, Bubba... My wife and I both shoot Buff Classics and use the same bullet mould you mentioned. We use 20:1 alloy, size at .459, 23 1/2 gr. 5744. We use Larsen's 50/50 lube. Our range is only 876 yds. but accuracy is great. Our best groups using Lee Shaver sights are 5 to 6 inches at the 876 yd. silhouette. Both rifles easily shoot MOA all the way out to that range if we do our part. These "cheap" rifles will outshoot some pretty expensive rigs, as you've noted. We wouldn't trade ours for anything!

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

lovedogs,

as you've noted: These "cheap" rifles will outshoot some pretty expensive rigs, as you've noted. We wouldn't trade ours for anything! these "cheap" rifles can SHOOT! I out shot my good friend with a custom Sharps in 40/72, and he was not very happy when the final scores came in. I only hit 19 out of 48 possible, but when sighting in during the match on 4 of 6 targets I think that was not bad. Once I was able to get close...things just start to go "CLINK"!!!

May I brag the rifle up just a bit more? Every time the trigger was pulled, the boolit just went where it was pointed when pulled. There were a couple of misses that I will definitely claim as shooter error (after I finally figured out where to put the sight settings). In fact I can only think of one miss that I really don't know what happened....I'm thinking a boolit with an offset bubble or something...

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

As an aside, I would like to cordially invite anyone in the western ND, eastern MT, northwestern SD area to come and shoot at my gun clubs (Buffalo Chip Shooters) annual shoot on August 25/26. There will be a 22LR shoot and levergun shoot on Saturday, and the buffalo shoot on Sunday. Our range is located around Carson, ND. If you look on a map follow the interstate, find Bismark and Dickinson, then draw an upsidedown triangle 2/3 of the way down to state line. We are around there.

Any questions, please feel free to PM me. I will gladly get a poster out to you if you want one, or answer any questions.

[jim4065]

I put one of these on order today. I was planning on fire-forming 30-30 brass, but saw that Starline has both 2.125 and 2.08 cases for sale. Didn't work it out, but it looks like about 15% more money for the "Long" cases. Which one shoots the best?

I'm not really into supreme accuracy, but if there's a big difference then it would be worth paying the up charge. Can anyone help? (That is: Make the decision for me because I'm both too lazy and too irresponsible to do it on my own.) :mrgreen:

[4060MAY]

If you are going to shoot Black Powder, the longer cases will serve you better.

[garandsrus]

I'm looking to get one of the rifles in 38-55 also for my first venture into BPCR.

It should be fun!

John

[joeb33050]

I put one of these on order today. I was planning on fire-forming 30-30 brass, but saw that Starline has both 2.125 and 2.08 cases for sale. Didn't work it out, but it looks like about 15% more money for the "Long" cases. Which one shoots the best?

I'm not really into supreme accuracy, but if there's a big difference then it would be worth paying the up charge. Can anyone help? (That is: Make the decision for me because I'm both too lazy and too irresponsible to do it on my own.) :mrgreen:

I've spent a lot of time trying to find out if longer cases-closer to maximum length for the chamber-give better accuracy. I've bought the Buffalo Arms long 38-55 cases to make long 30/30 cases, and done other testing. So far, with smokeless, longer cases do NOT give me better accuracy. I wish it were so.
For the complete story so far, with dissenting opinions/different results, see the book at http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/CB-BOOK/, Chapter 6.2 CARTRIDGE CASES, then find CASE LENGTH VS. ACCURACY.
joe brennan

[GLL]

joe brennan:

Could you please give some details about this book.

I could not follow the link to the Chaper you mentioned but it looks very interesting.

Jerry

[jim4065]

The book is available on the left side of the web page - click on "Files". I downloaded it all - but it would be nice in a format similar to "Pet Loads. I joined the group trying to download it and have received about three revisions so far today, so it's a work in progress. What I've seen so far looks like the most inclusive info on cast bullets that I've seen from any source - including Lyman. Hope these guys make some money.

[4060MAY]

Joe
When shooting black powder a shorter case will sometimes get a ring of lead on the end of the chamber where the case should be.
doesn't always happen but when it does the leading in the throat gets somewhat extreme. just an observation, been shooting BPCR since 1991.

[GLL]

Since I am not a member it appears I cannot download the files.

Jerry

[windwalker]

Hey, Bubba... My wife and I both shoot Buff Classics and use the same bullet mould you mentioned. We use 20:1 alloy, size at .459, 23 1/2 gr. 5744. We use Larsen's 50/50 lube. Our range is only 876 yds. but accuracy is great. Our best groups using Lee Shaver sights are 5 to 6 inches at the 876 yd. silhouette. Both rifles easily shoot MOA all the way out to that range if we do our part. These "cheap" rifles will outshoot some pretty expensive rigs, as you've noted. We wouldn't trade ours for anything!

i just use the smith buckhorn rear sight on mine with the peep hole slider,i have shot this group with it at 400 meters on quite a windy day just of crosed stix.
bernie:-D
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/windwalker_au/100_4256.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/windwalker_au/100_4255.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/windwalker_au/100_4411.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/windwalker_au/100_4406.jpg

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Windwalker,

Nice shooting with that sight.

That one on the left looks like the Lee 500 gr. pointed, am I correct?

And just for anyone that wants to try this (if you already haven't), I found that with my Buffy Classic shooting off the cross sticks with them just behind the front sight gives me the best in stability and accuracy when shooting. I used to place the sticks just in front of the forearm, and wasn't getting the best shot to shot repeatability with the rifle.

[garandsrus]

The price on the link to Bud
s Gun Shop went up from $289 (IIRC) to $307.97! I wonder if they noticed increased traffic to the page and bumped the price?

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/89099

John

[jim4065]

The price on the link to Bud
s Gun Shop went up from $289 (IIRC) to $307.97! I wonder if they noticed increased traffic to the page and bumped the price?

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/89099

John

Had a funny feeling that it was going to jump. They were enough below everyone else that I figured it was best to "pull the trigger" even though my gun budget is pretty much emptied out. Insured shipping ran $28, then $20 for the transfer and you're not saving more than $40 over just buying locally around here. (Assuming the local price doesn't jump also).

The States are pushing hard to tax internet sales (and access). Makes you wonder when they'll succeed in putting a "cigarette tax" on ammunition and components. Same twisted logic seems to apply to both categories.

Sorry - neither the time nor the forum to air all these complaints. :violin:

[garandsrus]

I also found this rifle on WalMart's site for $315.46. You go to a local store and they order the rifle for you.

I called Cabela's and they want $369.99 for it.

John

[Bluehawk]

I just got my Target Classic and am having a problem. Looking at this thread seems everyone has the same bore size as mine ( slugged at exactly .380)
I have bollits at 381, 380 and have sized some down to 379 and still cant chamber any rounds in the gun past 377
I have checked everything I can think of including trimming the cases down to 2.078 Rtounds loaded with 377 bullets go in and the gun closes completel and extracts without a hitch . BUT Putting in cases with 380 and 381 bollits will not even enter the chamber completely and bollits sized down to 379 will enter all the way when open but will not close with out forcing .
Has anyone had to have the chamber opened by reaming or polishing to get it to load correclty ?? Or is it just my gun ?
I realize that cast can bump up some. But am wondering if this is how everyone else is handling it ?
I would really appreciate any help any one has for me here
Thanx Dan

[keeper89]

Try running your loaded cases into your sizing die with the die adjusted so it only sizes about halfway down the case==just roll the cases lightly on your lube pad and guff them up in there. Works well for me but ymmv! Good luck and have fun!!:Fire:

[Bluehawk]

Thanx Keeper I'll try that It cant hurt at this point Never had this problem before

[lathesmith]

I have seen this problem before, and there are various solutions to it. I saw one discussion where guys were running loaded rounds through the sizer die and if done right it seemed to give good results. I have always used reformed 30/30 brass with bullets sized to .379-.380, they are tight but they will go. This brass may be slightly thinner than commercial 38/55 cases, and so works slightly better in this application. My barrel requires bullets in this size range, I tried .377-.378 Lyman bullets and got keyholing past about 700 fps. So, ya gotta do what ya gotta do to get those .380 slugs to chamber. Interestingly enough, I have seen good reports using .376 Jacketed bullets in these guns. But at this site we aren't really interested in that, are we?

[Boz330]

If you are running loaded rounds into the size die it has to be squeezing those boolits down to. I would pull one and then check it and see what it measures after that operation. With BP you will get a bump up, not so much with smokeless. Turning or reaming the neck might be a better option. WW brass tends to be a little thinner than RP or possibly blowing out the 30-30 as Lathesmith suggested.

Bob

[Nrut]

PM John Boy (see post #12 first page)...He knows of a fellow R.F. Clark in Calif. who reams these H&R chambers out with a larger reamer so you can chamber fatter boolits... I would have him do mine if it was'nt for the border issues...:roll:

[Bluehawk]

Thanx everyone for your imput I woud realy rather have the chamber opened Maybe i wll contact this guy in Calif. I hate to send the gun ( or at least the barrel ) all the way accross country ( I live in eastern PA) just to have the chamber done but I have no idea of any person in my area that would do that . I loaded up some rounds last night and squeezed them down in the sizing die just enough to chamber them but I have to figure Im reducing the bullet size again any way, So we will see if it works or not. I will get a chance to shoot on friday after noon and find out then . Thanx again

[jim4065]

Well, Buds Gun Shop seems to have dropped them completely. They show neither the Buffalo Hunter in 45-70 nor the the Target Model in 38-55. Makes me wonder if H&R 1871 is dropping these guns.

[teddyblu]

Jimo465

I don.t know why H&R wouild drop a sucessful product, aniyway I checked with a Gzanders dealer and they had 20 or more each of buffalo classic and the 38-55 target rifles (not the dealer- gzanders dist.)

Teddyblu

[Frank46]

Windwalker, your rear sight. I have a origional 1895 win in 30-40 krag and need a sight to fill the dovetail cut in the bbl. Yours looks like a potential solution to my problem. Anywhere I can check a website to get more info?. Frank

[4060MAY]

Buffalo arms has them

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,231.html

[Bluehawk]

Well guys the rifle shot well with the "Squeezed " bollits No Key-holing all went in straight and I got Acceptable accuracy. I DID NOT use any consistant method of "Squeezing" the cartridges down . IM pretty sure that is what accounted for the lack of real good accuracy Beest group of the day was 2.4 inches ( 100 yards off the bench) Most were int he 4 inch category with one going 11.6 inhces with a called flier w/o that it was about 5 inches . BEst accuracy came from gas checked boolits with AA XMP 5744. Chronograph not working but estimated all were about the 1700 FPS range . I have figured out the way to make the squeezing consistant and have eliminated the "Crimp" that I had put in so im expecting much better accuracy nest session . I really dont like the extra step, but im living with it now till I can get the chamber opened I had another problme in that I tried to remeove the front sight to repalce it with a non-target ,hunting type sight but the froint sight wont budge in its dove tail slot Just called H&R to seeif it might be "Silver soldered" in but they say no "Just hit it harder with the drift !" Im going to whack the hellout of it later this week and then go from tghere Thanx again guys for all your advise and help

[38-55]

Hey Bluehawk,
Just for grins try loading some cases that have been fired in your gun that have not been resized....
Calvin

[floodgate]

Bluehawk:

I'm sure you know this, but if not, be SURE to drive that sight out from LEFT to RIGHT (as seen from the shooting position); the dovetails and slots are tapered that way to seat tight as they come up to center.

floodgate

[Bluehawk]

38-55 I tried that yesterday while loading . Tooka case fired in the gun and it went in fine . Took that same case and loaded a 380 GC boolit in there and it would not go. I did take a few new boolits sized to 378 and loaded them in to sized cases and they WILL go it is the biggest boolit i can find that will go with out alteration of some kind I loaded five of them up to try out .
Floodgate Yes I did try that and then tried to tap it a little from the other side jsut to see if it woud move at all . I have removed numerouls sights fomr other rifles and was VERY upset when it wouldnt move , bent a brass drift and it still didnt move . I will try some other things later this week . IM a afraid now of wrecking the sight that is in ther now even though I dont really want to use it . Oh well it will come out eventually Thanx again guys for yoru help and comments

[floodgate]

Bluehawk:

Hmmm... Just had an idea (Uh-Oh!) how about heating the sight itself up with a propane torch, while keeping the barrel cool with a wet rag. Might expand the sight base and open up the dovetail slot a bit. Then 24 hrs. doped liberally with Kroil (after it cools). It couldn't be like the magazine rings on a Winchester 90/06?62 and be a rotary dovetail - naah, not on a sight. You might also could cut down through the sight and male dovetail at a suitable angle (avoiding cutting into the barrel) with a fine hacksaw, and collapse it.

floodgate

[Bluehawk]

flood gate I did think of the propane torch I will try that with some penetrating oil, hopefully that will do it. I have never had this much trouble with a dovetailed sight EVER. I have a large sight pusher usually used on auto pistol sights I tried that too NADA. Im thinking now that the distributer had gthe thing sitting somewhere where some condensastion got to it an d maybe there is some rust built up under the sight in the dove tail hopefully the heat might break that free thanx again

[38-55]

Bluehawk,
Iff'n I was you and I was that close to getting rounds to chamber I'd be tempted to ream the inside of a few cases to see if the accuracy improvement warranted getting your chamber reamed... Kinda a reverse engineering thing.. Just a thought
Calvin

[Boomer Mikey]

Original 38-55 brass was thinner than current brass from Winchester and Starline at the 2.082" length. Original brass was 0.0075" - 0.008" thick; current brass is 0.0095" - 0.010" thick for both Winchester and Starline 2.082" long cases.

H&R uses a reamer spec-ed on the original cartridge with a 0.379" groove diameter and 0.373 bore diameter with a 0.395" max diameter neck

Turning the necks down will permit you to chamber a 0.380" diameter bullet but this will become a tiresome thing.

Running a 375 Wichester reamer into the H&R 38-55 chamber will permit you to use current production Winchester and Starline 2.082" 38-55 brass with 0.380" bullets. The chamber neck diameter is 0.401" providing the room needed for the thicker brass.

Starline also offers the original, longer, 2.125" long cases now (Midway has them). This brass may be thinner in the neck... I don't know, but I plan to check this out next month. For 10 cents more per case I wouldn't neck turn them or buy a reamer.

Boomer :Fire:

Thumbnails of Cartridge and Chamber Drawings from the Leverguns.com website: Left - 38-55, Right - 375 Winchester

[Boomer Mikey]

I made a pound slug of the chamber in my H&R 38-55 Target Handi-Rifle this evening and indeed the chamber dimensions of my rifle are as close to original 38-55 chamber drawing values as is practicallly possible. Except for a little roughness in the 6 degree throat taper the chamber is fine.

Chamber neck diameter is 0.3955"
Chamber length is 2.120"
Groove diameter is 0.379"

I ordered some of the new 2.125" long Starline cases, a 0.379" sizing die, and a Lee 379-250-RF mold today. I'm not crazy about the Lee mold but it doesn't hurt to have another mold to go with the 2 Lyman and RCBS molds I have already.

I'll report back with how this comes together. Maybe this is my time to break open the H777 and CleanShot. I don't have any 20:1 or 30:1 alloy but I'll bet my 50/50 lino/ww alloy will work fine air cooled.

Boomer :Fire:

[Nobade]

Hey guys, I just got an email back from Fred Zeglin at 4D reamer rentals. He says he has two 38-55 reamers, one with a .395 neck and the other with a .400 neck. If those cases loaded with a .380 bullet measure less than .400 at the mouth, I think that the solution would be to just rent the reamer from him and open up the chamber. BTW, I too am curious to hear how thick the new Starline cases are when you get them in.

[45 2.1]

I made a pound slug of the chamber in my H&R 38-55 Target Handi-Rifle this evening and indeed the chamber dimensions of my rifle are as close to original 38-55 chamber drawing values as is practicallly possible. Except for a little roughness in the 6 degree throat taper the chamber is fine.

Chamber neck diameter is 0.3955"
Chamber length is 2.120"
Groove diameter is 0.379"

I ordered some of the new 2.125" long Starline cases, a 0.379" sizing die, and a Lee 379-250-RF mold today. I'm not crazy about the Lee mold but it doesn't hurt to have another mold to go with the 2 Lyman and RCBS molds I have already.
Boomer :Fire:

I've had three 38-55s and several 375 Winchesters. All would take paper patched 0.382" boolits with 0.009" case walls (blown out 30/30 brass for a chamber diameter of around 0.400"). The commercial WW cases had thicker walls at about 0.010". With a chamber diameter of 0.3955", I think you might have trouble with what your wanting to do in that rifle. I don't have the H&R, but the Browning, Winchester and Marlin rifles do work correctly. I would think about a 0.380" boolit for it also, or larger if you can get away with it.

[Bluehawk]

I searched around my realoading cabinet and came up with a box of once fired factory 38/55 form what appears to be the late 50s manufacture . Its certainly thinner than new brass from WW ( brass is marked WRA) I sized some of it down and then cleaned it up. I loaded some 379 bullets in them and the H&R willchamber them without a hitch With 380 GC boolits it will ALMOST go. I could force the shell in and it would probablly chamber all the way and fire but wih the dummy rounds , it would have to be pounded out from the muzzle. 381 bullets were not even close . So IMHO the answer is NOT in thinning the brass by out side or inside neck reaming of the cases. To time consuming and to much work for very little gain, not to mention the reduction of the strength of the brass for future reloads .
I had the similar problem with and orignal 1886 Win in 38/56 . Neck reaming the new cases did work well in that cartridge for the same problem.

[Boomer Mikey]

Hey guys, I just got an email back from Fred Zeglin at 4D reamer rentals. He says he has two 38-55 reamers, one with a .395 neck and the other with a .400 neck. If those cases loaded with a .380 bullet measure less than .400 at the mouth, I think that the solution would be to just rent the reamer from him and open up the chamber. BTW, I too am curious to hear how thick the new Starline cases are when you get them in.

If the new Starline brass doesn't work with a 0.380" bullet I'll probably get Dave Manson to make me a 38-55 reamer with a 0.4015" - 0.402" neck. I checked the 4D reamer and it's a 2.085" cartridge length reamer.

Thanks Noblade,

Boomer :Fire:

[Boomer Mikey]

I've had three 38-55s and several 375 Winchesters. All would take paper patched 0.382" boolits with 0.009" case walls (blown out 30/30 brass for a chamber diameter of around 0.400"). The commercial WW cases had thicker walls at about 0.010". With a chamber diameter of 0.3955", I think you might have trouble with what your wanting to do in that rifle. I don't have the H&R, but the Browning, Winchester and Marlin rifles do work correctly. I would think about a 0.380" boolit for it also, or larger if you can get away with it.

Thanks Bob,

Both my Marlin 38-55 336CB and 375 Winchester M94 have 0.375" groove diameters. I load 0.377" bullets in these and they work well. I'm sure a soft alloy bullet sized at 0.377" - 0.378" would chamber in the H&R and with enough powder obtrude enough to work OK too, but with plainbase bullets I want a little more insurance... 0.380" or larger.

Boomer :Fire:

[Boomer Mikey]

I stopped by a shooting buddy's house today to chat about our cowboy match this weekend and he wanted to discuss his accuracy problems with his newly acquired antique 38-55 1894 Winchester levergun. The rifle was actually in very good condition considering it was made in the first year of production, 1894 but a previous owner shortened the barrel to about 1/4" longer than the magazine tube with a hacksaw and filed the muzzle flat... no crown to speak of.

He said he couldn't chamber 0.380" bullets so he used a trick his gunstore buddy told him about and used the full length sizer die to re-size loaded rounds to chamber.

His bullets were hitting the targets sideways at 50 yards. He showed me a target where you could see the outline of the grease grooves!

We knocked apart a dummy round he gave the sizer die treatment to and I measured the diameter of the 0.380" bullet which was now 0.374". We slugged the bore... 0.379" groove / 0.374" bore.

Another candidate for a custom 38-55 reamer.


Boomer :Fire:

[Boomer Mikey]

Well, the Starline brass arrived today.

I measured the 2.082" and 2.125" neck wall thickness at 0.007" with a tubing (ball) mic and decided to re-measure the Winchester brass... it measured 0.009" on the ball mic.

I loaded a 0.380" bullet in the 2.125" brass and it chambered fine. The diameter of the dummy round is 0.395". The brass is a little pricey at $28.79 for 50 cases but certainly better than modifying chambers.

I'll continue to use Winchester brass in my 336 Cowboy and my 35-55 wildcats as they feed fine and the brass is stronger. My shooting buddy will be happy to get his 1894 on line and I can use the longer necks to greater advantage in the H&R 1871 Target Rifle too.

Problem solved, thanks Starline!

Boomer :Fire:

[Bluehawk]

Starline seems like the next thing for me to try. I just ordered some from MIdway Which by the way, has them for $21.99 for 50 , its even cheaper than their Winchester brass at $23.99 per 50 Hopefuly it will solve that problem
I noticed another little problem after shooting last SUnday I am getting some leading at the muzzle end of the rifle I am using commercial cast bullets now tilli can figure out what exact size I want then I will order a mold ( I have a Lee mold for their 255 grainer which drops at about 279 but that will probably be too small)
Leading is about 5 inches fromthe crown and IM guesing that the lube on the commercial bullet is not holding up to the 28 inch barrel . I just lightly coated a few with LLA and then I willshoot them this weekend and see if it helps Once I get a mold that casts at around 380 or 381, and drops a bollit around 250 to 270 grains and is gas checked and has a nice flat nose I will be happy

[Boomer Mikey]

I cast some Lee 379-250-RF, Lyman 375248, and some RCBS 37-250-FN bullets today using 50/50 WW/LINO alloy. As cast the Lee mold cast at 0.380" - 0.381", the Lyman mold cast 0.380" - 0.381", and the RCBS mold cast 0.378". I loaded dummy rounds using as cast Lee and Lyman bullets and a 0.3805" Bear Creek bullet... all chambered and engraved the lands fine. It's going to be a long wait for the 381268 group buy so I'm going to order the Saeco 571 300 gr. RNFP mold. This is about all the H&R can handle with the 1:18 twist barrel.

I liked the way the Lee 379-250-RF bullets engraved the rifling the best.

Boomer :Fire:

[Bluehawk]

Boomer , Thanx for the mold information gives me a good place to start . MY LEE mold is and older ,single cavity , model and it drops small ( 379) I really want a GC boolit for this rifle any way.
IF I could have any mold I wanted ( HINT HINT ) it would be a RANCH DOG mold dropping a gas Check boolit at about 380 weighing about 250/260 with my alloy. I Like the tumble lube concept
( I have a little over 200 Lbs of ingots sitting around that would be perfect for this rifle at 8lbs WW to 1 1/2lbs pure lead to 1/2lbs 50/50 bar solder)
I have not actually used a RD mold YET but know of three guys who do and all swear by them . I am going to order one soon for my 45/70s in 425 grain weight .
In the mean time I guess I will have to find the mold closest and it will probably be the Lyman 375 449 and hope it drops big enough

[Bluehawk]

Boomer AFTER this last message I sent , I saw on another thread here something about a group buy under your name that sounded Ideal, any thing still on with that ??????

[Boomer Mikey]

Boomer AFTER this last message I sent , I saw on another thread here something about a group buy under your name that sounded Ideal, any thing still on with that ??????


Hi Bluehawk,

The 381268 group buy is closed and there are no extras. Won't be here until March anyway.

The Lyman 375248 249gr. bullet is the standard for this cartridge. The Saeco 638, 738 and 571 tapered bullets are very popular as well, the first band is bore diameter and the last band is over groove diameter. I size these tapered bullets nose first at the diameter I want then lube and load. These molds are pricey but will last several lifetimes with reasonable care.

I prefer plainbase bullets for the 38-55 and I'll add a poly wad to the bottom of the bullet if necessary... this is one of PACO's secrets.

From the Leverguns website:

http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/small_charges.htm

"A PACO SECRET....Even though this bullet doesn’t have a gas check, when it is cast hard..a small disk of bullet base size, of thin polypropylene with a very small amount of glue against the base stops any fouling. I cut the poly with a fabric punch, can cut hundreds in minutes...a little glue on a sponge and just tap the bullet base on it and put the disk to it...faster than gas checks almost.

38-55/375 WBB. I have two Win/High Wall single shot rifles...a 32-40 and a 38-55. This year I got a hold of one of the hard to get 38-55 Marlins with 24 inch octagon barrel. I love this round...and I love the 375 Winchester BB. 38-55 brass will work in the 375 Winchester levergun. The Winchester BB ‘94 action was built to withstand 52,000 to 55,000+ psi (NOT CUP) with sustained use. Folks tell me they can load the Big Bore Winchesters much warmer than I claim. But I have seen these fine rifles begin to fail...and fail badly after a few hundred rounds. They will not take being rebuilt to 454 at all! We found that out back in the early 1980s when Freedom Arms tried with two chambered for the round. Lately a number of fine gunsmiths have tried again...same failures. 60,000 psi is just too far over the actions abilities with pressure.

BUT...and it is a big but...52,000+psi in a small bodied case like the 375/38-55 will give some outstanding velocities...but since we are talking of the 38-55 Marlin as the low man on the strength pole...I will keep the pressure rates quoted at no higher than 45,000 psi. The old premier bullet for this rifle and the 375BB..only difference is sizing for each rifle. The Lyman 375248 which has been renumbered from is old style is 250 grains, I size it .376 for the BB and .378 for the Marlin. It doesn’t have a gas check but the same trick with the polypropylene does it for heavy loads. Also Lyman makes a primer gas check 270 grainer ( it’s rated 265 or such but drops heavy from mine)..for a full load with either of these or other 250-270 grain cast bullets 40 grains of AA2230 gives over 2050 fps from the Marlin. And near2600 ft.lbs, it’s silly to say it’s under powered for big game.

For years until the 1970s the traditional leveraction in Canada was the 38-55. It was considered an excellent elk and moose round. 6.5 grains of Red Dot will with the 255- thru 270 grain cast slugs give 1000 fps for a fun load without recoil for almost 600 lbs of muzzle energy...like a heavy loaded 357 at the muzzle. 20 grains of 2400 goes 1600 fps...and 23 grains of 4759 will get close to 1800 fps.

Both Beartooth and Cast Performance, bullet companies make some excellent bullets for these two rifles...just tell them if you are going to shoot them in a 38-55 or the WinBB 375...they will size accordingly. They use LBT designs and have a number of bullet weights. Cast Performance makes a 300 grainer that is excellent. Even on a small elk I wouldn’t side shoot it with this 300 grainer if another animal was standing behind it...it’s penetration is extraordinary. I would wind up killing two birds...as big as they are...with one stone. In my Winchester BB 375 only...I push this 300 grainer at 1875 fps over 33 grains of ReL#7. The 375 WinBB is one of my best leveraction rifles."


The poly trick works great on just about everything 35 caliber and up.

Another bullet I like for my 38-55's and 375 Winchester are Bear Creek 0.377" and 0.380" 255gr. bullets. I get these locally for $19.00 per box of 300. These are dry moly coated bullets - no stickey lube - available in sizes from 0.377" - 0.380" and have worked well for me... no wads, no lube, and no leading.

http://www.pathfindersports.com/p/pathfindersports/default.asp?SID=x6TWURZKHSH5SCPL6JNYDC&S=E3&Document=Bear+Creek&NID=4714615


Boomer :Fire:

[garandsrus]

Well,

I just picked up my 38-55 H&R target rifle from Cabelas as I had points there and they gave you a $150 gift card if you purchased $500 worth of stuff!

I have some light 375 Win loads made up (using 38-55 data) that should work fine. The boolits are sized to .379 and chamber fine.

John

[stillhunter]

I have one like yours, presently topped with a Leupold M8 4X. I tried .375 and .376 cast bullets in it and got keyholing and generally mediochre results. It seems to like .378 bullets at either 23 gr 3031 or 28 gr 3031, giving 3 1/2 in groups at 100 yards. I had to go from Lyman dies (.375), to RCBS cowboy dies also, as you need at least a .377 expander. The bullets are plain base 245 grain round nose. Frankly, I think the bore is larger than the chamber! A good challenge to get it to work!! At 200 yards it will be like throwing stones, but in PA we shoot most of our deer under 50 yards, so I am going to hunt with it this year.

[garandsrus]

I shot my rifle the other day... The loads shot OK, about 2" at 50 yards for about a 20-30 shot group, but the rifle should be able to do better. I am going to increase the powder charge some (or change powders) to increase the velocity. I am almost out of vertical sight adjustment at 50 yds! The charge was 8 gr Unique over a Lyman 375449.

What other rear sight can I put on this that will actually be a "target" sight instead of the thing that it came with? The rear sight has been my biggest disappointment with the rifle. You need to remove the aperture to get to the screws to adjust the windage and elevation! It's not a big deal, it's just not a target sight! The site is not click adjustable. The aperture is also larger than I would like.

It looks like the barrel might be drilled and tapped for a scope by removing the rear sight and using the other hole (farther out) on the barrel.

John

[Jon K]

garandsrus,

375449, up the charge to 9.5-10 grains of Unique, or try 5744 17.5-20 grains. WLR/WLRM, Fed 210/215,Rem 9 1/2 all work well, sized .378-.379 or if you have a .380 mould(spelled proper), and 50/50 or BP lube. Seat the boolit right up on the lands. 10 grains of Unique works with the Saeco #571 300 grain boolit also. I had a problem w/harder lubes & .378-.379 boolits fouling and keyholing when trying to drive them over 1400 fps. I'm guessing you're only going about 1,000 fps @8gr of Unique. I got 1140 w/9.5 grains & almost 1170 fps w/10 grains. 19.5 grains of 5744 will do 1400 fps.

Hope this helps you, your gun may react different, but this should give you a starting point.

Jon

[Jon K]

BTW, Your sight settings will change a lot by goin faster. Williams makes a FP-H&R-TK or w/o TK

Jon

[Bluehawk]

WELL I finally received my Starline brass and tried loading up some rounds last night . THEY CHAMBER GREAT with the 380 GC bollits I have I loaded up 20 rounds ( different loads) to test fire this weeknd I cant wait now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant wait to see how it shoots NOW !!!!!!!

[garandsrus]

I am using a .375 Win die set to load for the 38-55. It doesn't seem to present any problems. Do I need 38-55 dies?

Thanks,
John

[Bluehawk]

Finally got the rifle to my range last weekend and got to shoot it with the boolits loaded inot Starline Brass.
COMPLETEY SOLVED MY PROBLEMS I only loaded one powder charge AA XMP 5744 28 grains in front of the Cast Performance .380 GC boolit Chambers fine and shoots well without any fine tuning it shot consistant 1 3/4 In groups of the bench at 100 yards Sorry no pictures :-( I did not chronograph the load but it figures to be between 1700 and 1800 out of that barrell
Its now a GREAT shooter without having to have the chamber reamed I"M THRILLED

[38-55]

Bluehawk,
Great news !
Stay safe
Calvin

[jim4065]

Looks like a pretty good price: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8302198

But there's only two of them.

[lonewolf5347]

I just bought one so there is only 1 left

[ACK450]

Sorry Mallard 57: looks like Bubba's have taken over!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jjamna]

Looked at one today new for $289, my luck i never have the cash when something is on sale. The Buffalo 45-70 was $329. I think I am going to get one each

[jjamna]

Can you get a Buffalo barrel to go on a traget frame? They both look the same.

[lonewolf5347]

Yep:
All is need is to send in the stock and action on the 38-55 (less barrel)
and you will have a new 45-70 also
you may have to purchase extra sights for the 45-70

[lonewolf5347]

http://www.hr1871.com/Support/accessoryProgram.aspx

[jjamna]

Thanks Lonewolf

[Boomer Mikey]

Yep:
All is need is to send in the stock and action on the 38-55 (less barrel)
and you will have a new 45-70 also
you may have to purchase extra sights for the 45-70

The sights they come with are junk anyway.

Boomer :Fire:

[jjamna]

What about the guns?

[JSnover]

The sights they come with are junk anyway.

Boomer :Fire:


I'll second that!
The rear sight is not sufficient for low-velocity work (not enough elevation) and the Lyman 17A doesn't offer enough insert options for shooting beyond 100 yards. I thought I could work around that but other maker's inserts can't be used, so the Lyman is gone and I gotta tell ya; it was an adventure getting that little sob outta that round barrel!
Still, it's a decent rifle for the price and there's quite a bit you can do to trick it out.

[Boz330]

I'll second that!
The rear sight is not sufficient for low-velocity work (not enough elevation) and the Lyman 17A doesn't offer enough insert options for shooting beyond 100 yards. I thought I could work around that but other maker's inserts can't be used, so the Lyman is gone and I gotta tell ya; it was an adventure getting that little sob outta that round barrel!
Still, it's a decent rifle for the price and there's quite a bit you can do to trick it out.

Brownells carries the Lee Shaver inserts for the 17A, a much better selection of inserts. For hunting I like the cross hair, but for longer range there are some other options.

Bob

[JSnover]

Thanks Boz! Brownell's was about the only place i didn't look.....[smilie=b:

[Boz330]

Thanks Boz! Brownell's was about the only place i didn't look.....[smilie=b:

Well it is pretty easy to get lost in their catalog, even when you know they have it. I only knew because I ordered a set. One reason that I love this Forum!!!!!!!

Bob

[nemo]

I GOT my 38 55 to shoot to had to mike all brass . some WW,Win brass is 0.010 neck thickes 4 out of 19 rest .0062 to .0093 . I used .0062 to 0074. with a cast lyman .375248 at 248,249 gr. My alloy Hard. 50yd @ 2.0 in needs tuing. used IMR 3031 kind slow . I brought JJ stuff @ .375 That did not grab the rifing keyholed at 50 yards 4 out 8 cast had llu and pan alox not sized dia. .377 out mould.
Shot 250 today @ 200 and 250 with 4 to 5 in need more tuning thinking a bout AA#9
Nemo

[lonewolf5347]

I read a few back post my 38-55 slug the bore at .375 groove and .379 land to land,I had a member here send me a few cast boolets in .379 and .381
I loaded a few in the WW brass and had no problem with the .379 to chamber but the larger .381 was a NO GO
I called starline and ask for a few sample cases in 38-55 :they came the other day and I did test the .381 and the starline brass it chambered with out any problems.

[garandsrus]

Lonewolf,

If you measure the case thickness, the Starline cases are thinner than the blown out 30-30's or .375 Win so you can seat the fatter boolit.

John

[Lumpie]

They sure don't give those Vernier sights away, that being said I'd sure like to have one or two of them. If I remember right there were several models of these, which one fits our rifles?
Jeff
I am like Forest Gump I am not a smart man, but I know what a good sight is. There is an old gentleman that lives in OIklahoma city Okla. that makes the best Vernier sight I have ever seen. No flat spring. That is not the thing for an accurate rifle to start with. I have about a dozen of his sights and they are top notch. If you are interested give me a mail for number.:Fire:

[SwedeNelson]

C Sharps makes a good set up for a little over $100.00
You will need to cut dove tails for them.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/Picture234.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/Picture235.jpg

This is on a .357 Max with a Buff stock set.
Works very well and looks period. (What ever that is?)

You can find them at:
http://www.csharpsarms.com/sharps_sights.php

Another option is a brass scope.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/Picture238.jpg

Or a Browning Tang set up.
This is a Douglas barrel in .40/65 (A very good shooter.)

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/Picture239.jpg

Sight is set up on a false brass tang.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/Picture241.jpg

I think I have tried just about every thing.
My .38/55 is a custom Badger octagon barrel.
with a 32" 4X Brass scope. Good looking rifle for a H&R.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/Picture242.jpg

This was the last time out. 10 shot group at 100 yards.
Hard to control the vertical stringing but a good shooter.

Swede Nelson

[jim4065]

Swede,

I really like the looks of that brass scope! Where did you get it, and was mounting it a "gunsmith" job?

Jim

[725]

SwedeNelson,
If I may, where did you get a .357max barrel for the H&R BC? Does it have a good throat for accurate shooting? I would be very interested in a set up like that.
725

[SwedeNelson]

jim4065

Its a DGW scope.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_129_647&products_id=4040&osCsid=45558e713d234d6f7a7054b7a64c8f8f

The mounts that come with it suck big time. They went in the trash.
Had to use MVA mounts -Very expensive- great mounts.

A better choice would be a Leatherwood Malcolm set up.
http://www.leatherwoodoptics.com/index-malcolm.html

You do have to drill & tap 4 holes for the MVA mounts.

725

My .357 Max was a .357 Mag with a very long throat.
Reaming it out to max fixed the throut problem.
Not hard to do if you have a reamer. You can do it
by hand.

Swede Nelson

[725]

Thanks, Swede. My missreading made me think you had a long BC barrel in .357 max. I'd kind of like to have had a long barrel .357 max. That would be different.
725

[SwedeNelson]

725

Long is good, but the 22" stock barrel does OK.
H&R has a .45 Long Colt that I would like to play with.
A baby buff!

Swede Nelson

[405]

Not much help here. Have only owned one a 22 revolver and it shoots pretty well. The only other I've had any experience with was a new 22 Hornet single shot.... that thing shot so poorly it couldn't hit the ground! But the "Aitch & Aura" 38-55 can't have any more chamber-throat-groove diameter issues than some of the early Winchester 94 38-55s... whew! Careful selection and sizing of bullets and brass is the only way. Either very frustrating or very rewarding.

[JSnover]

Boy.... for a "budget rifle" i sure have gone overboard with this one.:-D
Started by making a barrel weight. Then I added the Leatherwood scope w/long-range mount, since all it needed was to drill out and re-tap two existing holes. Next came the Monte Carlo (Handi_rifle) stock and a cheek rest to get my eyeball up. I'm not crazy about the recoil pad; too 'sticky' and really not needed.
Gruoups are shrinking nicely as I exorcise the Loose Screw Demons.
Here's a coupla pics...

[SwedeNelson]

JSnover

That is one good looking NEF/H&R!

Have had good luck shrinking my groups
with playing with the lock up of the action.
Need to get it as close to 100% as possible.

It seems vertical stringing is the big killer.

Swede Nelson

[JSnover]

Thanks for the comments and advice, Swede. Wife thinks I should call it the "Brothel Classic" :roll:
I'm considering carefully polishing the barrel locking lug and finding a 'smith who can lighten the trigger a bit, but only after the bore is seasoned and the parts are all cinched down. The groups will tighten up nicely, and then fall apart as another screw backs out. Even so, I'm having a whole lotta fun with it!

"one piece at a time..." --Johnny Cash

[TNsailorman]

JSnover, Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment but the chasing down and correcting flaws in a rifle amount to at least half the fun. If it came from the factory shooting 1" groups at 1,000 yards, I wouldn't want it. I have one rifle, a CZ 550 in 30/06, that came out of the box shooting under 1" at a hundred yards. That rifle has been to the range exactly one time, and that was when I first tried it out after I bought it. It's a great rifle, just uninteresting because there is nothing to "tinker" with it. I guess I'm just hardheaded fat ol man. James

[SwedeNelson]

JSnover

Trigger work is not to bad.
If you go to:
http://www.perkloafm.com/pdf/Handi_instr_one.pdf
http://www.perkloafm.com/pdf/Handi_instr_twob.pdf
He has a real good write up on doing one.

After you do the first one (about 2 hours) you can do one
in about 20 to 30 min.

Swede Nelson

[yarro]

So now I can tell the wife that I don't over accessorize my low cost guns.

-Yarro

[JSnover]

JSnover, Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment but the chasing down and correcting flaws in a rifle amount to at least half the fun. If it came from the factory shooting 1" groups at 1,000 yards, I wouldn't want it. I have one rifle, a CZ 550 in 30/06, that came out of the box shooting under 1" at a hundred yards. That rifle has been to the range exactly one time, and that was when I first tried it out after I bought it. It's a great rifle, just uninteresting because there is nothing to "tinker" with it. I guess I'm just hardheaded fat ol man. James

Aint that the truth! I stopped shooting for almost ten years because it got boring. Then a friend of mine bought the wrong grips for a revolver and asked me to "fix" them. I started tinkering with things.... Now I can't stop.........!

[725]

Great articles!

[JSnover]

http://www.perkloafm.com/pdf/Handi_instr_one.pdf
http://www.perkloafm.com/pdf/Handi_instr_twob.pdf
He has a real good write up on doing one.


Thanks!!

[lathesmith]

If it came from the factory shooting 1" groups at 1,000 yards, I wouldn't want it.
Thing is, if it came from the factory shooting this good, I couldn't afford it! And, if I did tinker with it I would probably mess it up. Don't get me wrong, there are always things that can use some personal attention. The trick is not to spend time re-inventing the wheel, but to find the niche where your tinkering skills actually improve things. THAT is the fun and challenge to me.
lathesmith

[JSnover]

Couldn't agree more, Lathesmith. Years ago I bought a semi-custom M700 because all my friends swore by them. Synthetic stock, bedded action, floated barrel, Leupold variable scope. It shot so well it bored the helloutta me. On top of that, it was made out to be the Holy Grail of "precision" sporting rifles; Shooting and cleaning were even more of a ritual than anything you'll find at a Catholic church. It was impossible to enjoy that thing, approaching it with that ridiculous attitude.
In this case, I'm enjoying the process more than the results. If something goes wrong I haven't blown a months' pay. You're right about not re-inventing the wheel and sometimes I think I've gone over the top with this one. But it sorta reminds of the T-Buckets from the 50s and 60s. I'm ok with that.

[lathesmith]

JSnover, I personally don't think you've gone over the top. Heck, that really a one-of-a-kind rifle, is it not? The main intent of my "re-inventing the wheel" comment is simply this: I think it is silly to spend hours and hours making a do-dad or widget that you can go to Harbor Freight or Lee and buy for $7.98. For example, I have seen guys talking about making a universal de-capping die from scratch. I mean, that is great if you wanted to do it for the practice, but geez, such a project is a several-hour deal, and you can buy one for less than ten bucks. To me, that's silly. Now, your rifle there, that is a time-consuming project, to be sure. But, it is a one-of-a-kind project, and you can't just go out and buy one, for ANY price. That's how I prefer to spend my project time, sometimes with guns, sometimes reloading stuff, and sometimes, even by improving my machine tools. You're right, the process is as enjoyable as the results, and like the T-buckets, you have a work of art as much as a rifle, or tool, or vehicle. To me, that is the real satisfaction.
lathesmith

[compass will]

i got the buffalo classic a couple months ago. I shoot out to 500 meters at our club with this rear site from Track of the wolf. $59.95. the price was good for a $345 rifle.

I just mounted it to the wood like Bubba did. The only thing i don't like about it is when you loosen the eye cup to change elevation, the windage moves. there are no marks for windage but I have gotten used to it. I guess you could scratch it for a windage mark.
Something else, the eye piece comes drilled around .030". way to small for my eyes, I think I got mine opened up to around .044".
The angle this sight snaps to is just a real little bit off from perfect. I swapped around the base and base spring and it was real cose but not perfect. just tighten the pivot screw a little and it stays in place.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(ifg5kkaqijwmskufossbveeq))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=167&styleId=770&partNum=RS-CREED-3-WE

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(ifg5kkaqijwmskufossbveeq))/imgPart/rs-creed-3-we_1.jpg

[wills]

[QUOTE=compass will;288997].

I just mounted it to the wood like Bubba did. The only thing i don't like about it is when you loosen the eye cup to change elevation, the windage moves. QUOTE]

Is it possible the sight is not level? That would cause the windage to change when you change elevation.

[compass will]

[QUOTE=wills;289020}

Is it possible the sight is not level? That would cause the windage to change when you change elevation.[/QUOTE]

When you change elevation you need to loosen the eye piece. The eye piece is tapped into a small piece of metal that holds it in place. This piece of metal can slide left or right when the eye piece is loose (for field adjustment of windage?)
On mine I adjusted the eye piece center (on a calm day). I can feel its centered by feeling the sides of this piece of metal with my fingers. then adjust windage to center with the 2 screws in the base. then when I reset the elevation in the field I just feel the sides of the eye cup mount to make sure its centered in the sight then tighten the eye piece. I think this allows a full 1/2" of windage adjustment!

after getting used to it, its been a lot of fun. Only problem is I can't see the red targets they use for cast bullet assoc matches through it :( In fact I can't see them through the front sight even if the back one is down. combination of too much light loss through the sights and my 47 year old eyes.

[SwedeNelson]

Had a hard time just mounting the browning sight to wood.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/Picture243.jpg

So I had a brass tang cast and cut it in to the stock.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/Picture244.jpg

It was a lot of work but the trough bolt that holds the stock
on passes through it and holds it very secure.

Swede Nelson