Loading revolver bullets .001" off throats

[JWFilips]

After reading & re-reading Cast Bullets For Beginner And Expert
SECOND EDITION, 2007 - Joe Brennan in Chapter 6.63 "Reloading Cast bullets for the handgun"
There is a section that talks about loading bullets long to within .001" of the throats of revolvers.
Now back in the 1980's when I used to shoot a lot of "heavy benchrest" my most accurate loads with "j-words" OAL= .001" off my lands.

Since I'm new to Lead boolit casting I have only just shot my first casts in my .357 mag S&W pistols over the past weeks And I used that advice from the above publication right from the start. I have been very much impressed. Now I'm not sure if it is the hand made custom castings or the "Long " boolit seating (or a combo of both) but I never thought the S&W revolvers would shoot so well. Granted they are very accurate (in My opinion) to begin with compared to others brands I have shot but these new casts and new loading procedures really have me excited.

Do any of you load your revolver boolits seated out far almost touching the chamber throats? and if so have you seen a similar accuracy improvement?

[williamwaco]

One old man's opinion:

Revolver accuracy:

The most accurate handgun ammo on the planet is factory wad cutters - especially .32 S&W Long and .38 Special.
The softest bullets in any handgun ammo is factory wad cutters usually around BNH 6 or softer.
The shortest AOL of any handgun ammo ( per caliber ) is factory wad cutters.
The longest jump from bullet to throat ( per caliber ) - is factory wad cutters.

Oh yes, did I forget to mention: The most accurate handgun ammo on the planet: Factory wad cutters.

Draw your own conclusions about bullet jump and bullet hardness.


.

[Cadillo]

JW,

Your cast bullets are not soft hollow base like the wadcutters Uncle Whiskers used to issue me. The WC's were very accurate to be sure, and the hollow bases kept things clean. If your combination works for you stay with it or make only small changes at any given time, but don't think that a cast bullet is going to behave nearly like a swaged hollow base wadcutter at any seating depth, pressure or velocity.

Just my opinion. Others' milage may vary.

[I'll Make Mine]

Oh yes, did I forget to mention: The most accurate handgun ammo on the planet: Factory wad cutters.

Draw your own conclusions about bullet jump and bullet hardness.

You forgot to mention that the lowest velocity loading in any given cartridge and brand is factory wadcutters. If you don't push the lead very hard, soft is good and the long jump to rifling won't hurt things...

[44man]

I never seen where it means anything. My most accurate is my BFR 45-70 where a boolit jumps a mile to the cone. It has done 1/2" at 100 yards many times.
All of my guns have long enough cylinders to take any boolit.
In my opinion the worst thing is to be so close to the end of the cylinder a small mount of recoil pull will tie up the gun. This is the worst thing when you really need the gun, like bear breath in your face.
I have seen many cast factory loads tie up a gun with two shots. Most have been over crimped.
Some factory guns have cylinders too short and bullets are made special to fit just them but they shoot just great from a longer cylinder.
It is a non issue.

[JWFilips]

Thanks Guys That's why I'm asking: still new at shooting lead boolits and trying to lean as much as I can.
And I know you're the right guys to ask!

[Mal Paso]

I have one gun / boolit combination where the forward drive band is just inside the throat. It is incredibly accurate but I need to scope the gun to really test it. It's a 4" 44mag and beyond the capabilities of the Ransom Rest I tried. There are some real believers here in having the boolit in the throat.

[44man]

I have one gun / boolit combination where the forward drive band is just inside the throat. It is incredibly accurate but I need to scope the gun to really test it. It's a 4" 44mag and beyond the capabilities of the Ransom Rest I tried. There are some real believers here in having the boolit in the throat.
Not me, I shoot mostly RNFP and LBT style with nothing touching the throats. It can be an aid with a Keith. But it has nothing to do with a boolit nose being at the very end of the cylinder. Too many "experts" in gun rags said it is important. I wish I was that smart!
You mention a Ransom so will you be out of sorts when I say all of my friends and I will out shoot that thing all day?
Take a look at boolit jump. This gun shot a 2-1/2" group at 500 yards. and clanged steel every shot at 500 meters. You need a flashlight to see the boolit nose down that hole.

[runfiverun]

i don't think he is talking about the nose being at the end of the cylinder.
but is talking about the front driving band being at the start of the cylinders throat.
that's where i try to get things to snuggle into,if the front band is centering the boolit straight into the throat area and the cylinder has a little wiggle to allow it to line up with the barell you will have good accuracy.

if everything is held rigidly unlined up then you have issues,especially when the front of the case is tipped to the bottom of the cylinder.

[JWFilips]

i don't think he is talking about the nose being at the end of the cylinder.
but is talking about the front driving band being at the start of the cylinders throat.
that's where i try to get things to snuggle into,if the front band is centering the boolit straight into the throat area and the cylinder has a little wiggle to allow it to line up with the barell you will have good accuracy.

if everything is held rigidly unlined up then you have issues,especially when the front of the case is tipped to the bottom of the cylinder.

Yes runfiverrun, I was talking about the front driving band being just shy of touching the cylinder throat Maybe I didn't make my self clear in the 1st post.
Anyway since I seem to have something working well for me here I'm probably going to stick with it unless I see an issue Thanks

[Mal Paso]

You mention a Ransom so will you be out of sorts when I say all of my friends and I will out shoot that thing all day?


I was being kind. I out shoot a Ransom offhand. 4" at 15y was the best it would do and that's my maximum at 25y. What I meant was I will need optics to judge the difference at 25 yards. Thanks in large part to this forum, all my revolvers have good geometry. The front band in the throat is one small part that may help some guns. It seems like a good idea, I get excellent results, but haven't the resources now to prove any difference. The only dramatic change I've seen with boolits that had to jump was 44 Specials in a recent S&W 629s with .428" throats. Opened the throats to .431 and Specials went from shotgun pattern to just as accurate as mags. At some level everything matters. There are some here that think the boolit / throat thing is terribly important and maybe one will post.

The rain doesn't seem to be melting the hail, I'd better supervise the wood stove this afternoon.:-D

[44man]

OK, understood, throat fit. Several boolits do better that way. Some will want the drive band right in the throat.
Sorry for the confusion.

[leadman]

The 429421 was designed with a smaller band in front of the crimp groove just for this reason. At least that is what I read. I do know my old Lyman 4 cavity mold is cut this way and that boolit is very accurate.

[Mal Paso]

The 429421 was designed with equal drive bands. It was Lyman that made the front band shorter and smaller which POed the designer who went to H&G.

I don't doubt your excellent results but the reduced front band was about chambering issues. Elmer Keith's design won't fit some guns if the forward band is larger than the throat. The H&G 503 he created after Lyman won't chamber in my Colt Anaconda if the forward band is larger than the throat. He also recommended sizing .429".............