Lee 358-125-RF in a 9mm

[newton]

Thought I would share my testing today. Loading for a friends 9mm. Started with his LC9, and am going to follow up with a full size 9 he has on Wednesday. I am always aprehensive when loading a new round, didnt help that it was not even for my own gun.

I cast the boolits hard. Not sure the exact mix, but probably coww. Water dropped.

Tumbled in Recluse formula, sized. 357", then lubed again.

Started with 4.5 Unique, .5cc lee dipper. First few were set at 1.100" OAL. Those chronyed at 950 fps. Did not like the look of the groove showing so decided to seat to top rim of crimp groove. Same charge, 1.025" OAL, 1050 fps. This is my first time loading a pistol round where the powder was almost being compressed. Worried me at first, but some digging turned up that it is common to have a case full. Definitely cannot double charge them with Unique.

Nice stout load. Not the hottest, but not bad from a 2" barrel. Curious what the full size 9 will do. Threw the brass good, about 10'. No pressure signs to speak of.

Next he wanted a plinking load. I saw the Red Dot sitting there and thought why not. Figured try the small, .3 cc scoop, for 2.1 grains. Same OAL. I got a consistent 750 fps. It worked the slide, very mild, threw them 2' maybe. Did lock it back on the last round. Guess I could go lower, but no need.

All in all, Im just glad I did not blow up the gun. Got where I wanted. Ill chime back in after Wednesday when I run them through the full size gun.

[Wal']

Thanks.....good info, have been using the cast Lee 358-125-RF in my 9mm HP sized .358, they work well.

Will look for your post after Wednesday's tests.

[newton]

I wondered what I should size them at, but when I went to slug the barrel with a .357 boolit it would barely go in. I figured that .357 was good enough.

[newton]

Here is a picture of the round, to get a general idea of what it looks like with the 1.025" OAL. Looks like there is some weather coming in today so I am not sure if I will be able to meet up with that guy and get his other gun. But eventually I will get the info and post it on here.

http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t395/nathanhooper1/9C387F00-9C36-4395-A087-B7B8FA8B931A-4182-0000066B6041DB3F_zps9b047dc7.jpg

[newton]

I should add that, unless I am missing something, the boolit remains .357" in the case and does not get sized down. I also do not think I mentioned that I apply a taper crimp to the round. Just enough to take out flare caused by the expanding die.

I measured the thickness of the case and it is .010", so that x2 is .020". Add that to .357" and you have .377". That is what the case, with the loaded round, comes out at. So I am pretty sure that it is why I am not getting any leading in the barrel. We shall see with the longer barrel though.

[gefiltephish]

You didn't mention leading. None? My LC9 leads horribly (but then so has my XD9 for the last 4 years). I ran 30 rounds of firelapping bullets through it, but barrel is still full of machining marks. I may try water dropping the next casting session.

Someone is sending a handful of PB gas checks to try out. If that's successful, I'm getting Pat Marlins PB Checkmaker and won't look back.

<edit>Looks like you updated as I was typing! I'll also add that just because the od of the loaded case is the correct diameter, it does NOT mean that the bullet has not been squished. The brass will spring back a bit but the lead will not. The fact that you're not getting leading is a good indicator that all is good though. My barrel slugs at .357 and I sized to .358+.</edit>

[Redd508]

I like the looks of that. I havent been able to cast any yet and i was concerned that the nose might be too wide. My 158 rf has a wider nose. My 9 is full sized so I'm eager to see your results too.

[newton]

No lead to speak of, but I did not run more than 20 down the barrel. So its hard to say if it would eventually build up. I know what you speak of as far as machining marks go. I have never seen a barrel look like that. I was wondering if it would effect it or not. PB gas checks work wonders. I had horrible problems with my 45 and PB checks worked perfect. One thing I found is that you need to seat them soon after casting. They tend to rip, or at least mine did, when the boolit gets harder.



The nose is perfect on this boolit. It feeds great in that one gun at least, not the slightest hiccup.

[FergusonTO35]

4.3 grains Unique under this boolit seated to 1.050 is what I carry in my Ruger SR9c. I think this may be pretty close to the useful maximum for this boolit and powder in the 9X19. Bumping the charge up to 4.7 grains produces groups twice as large and a noticeable increase in recoil. I tried 3.5 grains of Green Dot the other day. Didn't chrono it but really good accuracy and clean burning, gonna keep experimenting there.

[newton]

I just looked back at some messages and he did mention that his other gun is a SR9. I'll try to do some accuracy testing myself while I have it. Interesting you settled on that length. I would imagine that you see the crimp groove at that length?

.025" isn't that much though. It is, but I'm guessing it's not going to effect the speed much more than 25 fps or so.

What kind of groups are you getting and what range?

[FergusonTO35]

My gun is an SR9c and I'm just shooting offhand at 10 yards. Groups are around 2" which is very good for my poor fine motor skills. With my mold the crimp groove just barely shows at 1.050. Its full of boolit loob so it doesn't look strange or anything.

[newton]

Well I shot the SR9 yesterday. Different results than what I thought I'd get. The 'light' load of 750fps out of the LC9 only got 730fps and did not have enough to eject the round. The 1050fps load in the LC9 got 1000fps in the SR9 and shot amazing. Got 3 holes touching, one just outside of that and a flier with a 5 round test at 10 yards. Most likely luck. I also shot the light load which grouped significantly lower, but still very good grouping. Had to work the slide each shot.

I tried to run it a little hotter, so I loaded up 4.7 grains Unique -weighed- and shot those. They ran 1150 over the chronograph. But they did group something terrible, but I am sure it was because of all the lead building up. I will have to work on the lube. The barrel in that gun is something else. It really makes me pause when I consider Ruger in the high end category. I know they are not top end guns, and I know that their action and such is what is so tuff about them, but good night their barrels look like a kid made them.

I am sure that it could be smoothed out, I guess, and I am sure it does not hamper it with metal patched bullets, but lead is not their friend. The LC9 had a lot better barrel than the SR9. I wonder if it has anything to do with being stainless. I have a blackhawk that had a beautiful barrel from the factory.

One thing I did notice is that my scoops did not weigh out at 4.5 grains. They weighed out at 4.3 or so. I loaded up some more with the Lee PPM and tried to duplicate the 4.3 that the scoop was throwing, but I am not sure I got it correct or the way the PPM crushes some of the grains made the rounds behave differently. I say that because I did not get near the same grouping and the brass did not fly nearly the same distance as the scoop measured rounds.

I had fun though. I have to say, being the first auto pistols I have loaded for I really see the benefit of wheel guns when it comes to reloading. I live in the country, so I know it would be different if I had a different place to shoot, but I spent a lot of time looking for brass on the ground after shooting. I like the idea of having it in the gun when it comes to this kind of shooting and reloading.

I also have concluded that there could be some more work to be done in the load development, but I think I will stick with the ~4.3 weight, maybe try to push it up to 1050fps. But even still, with that load and boolit it sure is a thumper.

[6.5 mike]

I've been using the same boolit in my 9 m/m, hi-pwr clone, with 231. So far 3.4/ 3.5 grs cycle & lock on the last round with 3 mags. Waiting to get it back from the shop after a sight change, Novak front & rear. Old eyes need all the help they can get, lol.

[practical_man]

I like this bullet with 4.5 grains of 231. I shoot them sized to .357 out of glocks and a Springfield XD. Lube with White Label lube - whatever is in the sizer, usually BAC. I suspect the 50/50 would be a bit better.

Accuracy is only OK, but these are not match guns. They will all shoot under 1.5 inches at 25 yards. Good enough for indoors. I have a tough time getting any 9mm bullet to group very well at 50 yards. 4 inches is about average at that distance.

It's a nice bullet for 9mm and cowboy 38 special.

-John

[Arkansas Paul]

Glad I found this thread. I've got an LC9 that's supposed to arrive this month (crossing my fingers), and can't find a 9mm mold. I do load for .38 Spcl and have this same mold. I'll give it a whirl.

[quilbilly]

Since you wondered about that load in a longer barrel, in an 18" T/C carbine barrel, that Unique load with that same boolit chronographs at just under 1200 fps.

[greenwart]

I am working on the same problem. I got a new Argentine Hi power and have no other 9mm. I cast up a few hundred and made some dummy loads to see if they would cycle and found 1.080 OAL was fairly reliable. I did a test and loaded rounds from 1.032 to 1.116 OAL. Bullets were sized 0.357 then heat treated 450F for 45 minutes, the lubed with pink lube. Groove diameter for the HP is best I can tell .3565.

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I also loaded reddot from 3.4 to 4.3 grains. with an OAL of 1.080

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3.8g or 4.0g seemed like a good load and the shot pattern was tight. I haven't had time to evaluate the actual targets yet. The 4.3 load looked like it was spreading out and the stdev for velocity is much larger.

when I got back I decided to see what the bullet seating depth was not in the case. With a bullet just dropped in till it touches would be a OAL of 1.040 so the 1.032 was just off the lands. this would be the barrel groove size engaging. If I hammered a bullet (very lightly) the OAL would size out at 1.100, so the multiple tries rechambering the 1.116 and failure to camber one round makes sense. I did the sharpie test and the lands were visible for the 1.100 seating depth. I know there needs to be more data points for the OAL test but feel confident that 1.032 is off the lands. I saw no pressure signs on primers or cases.

Bob