Large Loop Levers

[northmn]

I was looking at some lever 22's, as if I need another gun, and saw that the Henry arms levers were now getting to be all large loop. My question is what are they good for? Honestly I do not know. They add bulk to the rifle when cased and I never really felt any need to roll one to cock it like John Wayne in True Grit and probably would shoot something off if I did. Not saying that if someone likes them to go for it, but I am really a traditional sort of fellow. I build my own muzzleloaders according to how they were built 200 years ago and hunted with recurves and longbows. Kind of why I was attracted to a lever gun. So I guess that is my one count against them. But why?

DP

[btroj]

Some people like the looks. Some like them because they have large hands but some are even bigger than that.
I am with you, I don't like em. They just look silly to me.

[Dan Cash]

If large loop levers also had an equally large loop for the trigger, I could get past the looks for extreme cold weather hunting. Since I am not going to the Arctic to hunt ice hogs, I can do without them. They look like a bull's scrotum hanging off an otherwise elegant piece of equipment.

[josper]

I like the looks #1 #2 I must have big hands as the stock lever I can only get a couple of fingers in and it feels cramped . also most of my deer hunting was in northern NH near the Canadian border .heavy gloves are the order of the day. No I don't try to spin it like Chuck Conners. To each their own.

[williamwaco]

Some people like the looks. Some like them because they have large hands but some are even bigger than that.
I am with you, I don't like em. They just look silly to me.



Me too.

[saintdel]

I always saw them as Hollywood stuff with no practical value, but that's just me. Of course, I'm generally right.

[NVScouter]

Large loops are now a must for me. My hands have never had a spot in a small loop for my pinky and add gloves and I only have two fingers in the loop. My Henry 22 with large loop is my favorite 22 for cold weather bunnies. I bought my Rossi 45LC with the large loop because of the Henry and I'm sold on them.

I'm going to convert my 94 one day too.

[Pepe Ray]

Folks who hunt in short sleeved shirts and sneakers have NO idea, nor do they try to imagine the pain experianced by those of us with impared circulation.
I havn't been able to wear gloves for decades. They cannot retain enough heat to prevent my fingers from turning white. The ache would literally drive me from the woods. Only good quality mitts will allow a full day in the field.
Try putting those thru a "slick, picturesque finger loop."
Beauty Is as beauty DOES.
Pepe Ray

[saintdel]

Ok, maybe it's not just Hollywood stuff.

[Ziptar]

When I bought my 39M it had a gigantic loop on it, too gigantic. I couldn't stand it, ordered a new factory lever and replaced it.

61595

[TheGrimReaper]

Some people like the looks. Some like them because they have large hands but some are even bigger than that.
I am with you, I don't like em. They just look silly to me.

I too don't like the looks.

[TXBRILL]

I must be the only honest guy out there... I admit that I bought one so I could teach myself to twirl like the Duke. Now being honest I have mastered the "twirl" but I am not dumb enough to do it loaded. By the way it must be the slowest possible way to load a lever action, but if you are at full gallup with your six shooter in your other hand and the reins in you mouth, and you have to reload the carbine, its the only cool way to do it.

[Armand]

I like them. Because of looks and The Duke, of course.

Now, I have to confess to you all:

I can´t spin it!!!

:???:

I am too DUMB for it!

How´s it done???

OK, the truth:

standing on the bed, 94 Trapper, EMPTY, try to "throw down front of rifle" ...

I am simply too dumb for it!!!!

;-( ;-( ;-(

(( Hermann ))

[45-70 Chevroner]

Well I bought one back in the mid 80's. It was a Winchester 32 special with a 16" barrel that Winchester offered for a very short time. I did learn to twirl it and in my opinion you can't get shot with it as when you twirl it the first thing that happens is it opens as you swing it out and down and as it comes up the lever is pulled closed and at that point the barrel is pointed down range. It is imposible to close the action until it makes about 90 percent of the 360 degree rotation. I did shoot it like that but there is not much accuracy and it takes about 5 times as long to work the action. Also one handed shooting with a 32 or a 30-30 is not much fun.
As for looks i'ts all in the I of the beholder. Personally I like blonds, but some like brunetts and others like redheads. When I was young I probably would not have turned down any of them.
As for the 16" barreled 32 Winchester and large loop, it was a special edition, and I wish I had kept it.

[Recaster]

I'm thinking about looking for one for my Marin 30-30 because i have an injury to a tendon that prevents me from straightening out my finger. I can fit it into the standard loop but not without dificulty. I don't realy like the look of them but i'm thinking it might be more comfortable. Besides it might be cool to be able to twirl.

[hickstick_10]

They're good for looking flashy.

In the 90 or so years that lever actions were made before TV westerns you'd think someone at Winchester would have got the idea or the request for a large loop if it was needed.

[Tim357]

I like them. Because of looks and The Duke, of course.

Now, I have to confess to you all:

I can´t spin it!!!

:???:

I am too DUMB for it!

How´s

OK, the truth:

standing on the bed, 94 Trapper, EMPTY, try to "throw down front of rifle" ...

I am simply too dumb for it!!!!

;-( ;-( ;-(

(( Hermann ))

First off ,you don't throw down front of rifle. You drop your arm thats connected to the hand thats connected to the lever. Then you push your arm forward to get the rifle moving around in a circle. As the muzzle comes forward, the action will cycle. Although, if you are trying this with a 20" bbl, theres a good chance you will get cut by the front sight as it passes below your armpit.

[MT Chambers]

Hollywood aside, up here in the cold using heavy gloves and heavy loads in the 45/70, the large loop levers are a great help, I couldn't operate my fav. levergun without the large loop in -30 degrees.

[Pepe Ray]

I wonder if Ziptar got my P.M.
I'd like to have that m39 Big loop.
Also
Sounds like Tim357 has cycled the action like 'The Duke".
I'would't try it unless it had a Trapper bbl. in an M92 Win/Rossi
Pepe Ray

[izzyjoe]

i'm not too fond of them either, but i do like the one's that are opened up a little bit. but i can't remember who makes them.

[Ziptar]

Pepe Ray: PM Replied, sorry it's already long gone.

izzyjoe: Is it Mule Man's original Muleloop (http://www.mulemangunworks.com/mule-loops-custom-levers/)? I'd wouldn't call his large loops, they are more like "glove loops". Although he makes a Chuck Connors Rifleman loop too.

[PbHurler]

I guess I'm an odd duck. I replaced the OEM lever on my 1895 GG, the original lever used to pound my middle finger. I replaced it with the Wild West Guns large loop lever & had no more issues, I can also fit my gloved hand into the loop(mitten,with seperate trigger finger). I like mine, except only for the fact the fit into the original Boyt case for the gun, is damn close to not fitting.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I'm thinking about looking for one for my Marin 30-30 because i have an injury to a tendon that prevents me from straightening out my finger. I can fit it into the standard loop but not without dificulty. I don't realy like the look of them but i'm thinking it might be more comfortable. Besides it might be cool to be able to twirl.
I saw one for a Winchester on E-bay this morning. It sold for $37.00 in bid. There were also some for the 336 Marlin. I also saw some on an other site for the 336 Marlin, but they were quite expensive, like $149.00.
Someone on here said to be carefull about twirling a 20" barreled 94 because it can cut your armpit, well he is right. When I was young I was 6' 3" tall and I have long arms and the 20" barrel will just barley go under my arm pit. By the way I have shrank quite a bit, I am 6' 1/2" now. Don't LOL we all shrink in heigth as we get old, some more than others.

[KCSO]

For those of you that want to twirl, do not under any circumstance try it with a loaded gun! The reason is that to twirl and load you need a modified action. A standard action as you spin the bullet nose drops down and as you come around it catches and either the gun goes south or you end up with a loaded gun jammed in your arm pit. The guns that were made for this had a stud and spring installed in the top of the action to guide the bullet nose. This also IMHO weakened the chamber area and made the guns only fit for light loads. I have somewhere the aritcle in Gun's Magazine from way back when by Rod Redwing, "I taught the Rifleman to Shoot", and the plans for modifying the guns.

I can't say i either like or dislike the large loop. I have no use for one myself but I have one on my traapper 357 because iit came with one and i haven't found a plain lever for it yet.

[Recaster]

Hey i was just joking about "twirling", seems very dangerous to me. Are you guys realy doing that? I would like to have a little more room inside my lever though. I do like to shoot that rifle. maybe i'll start seriously looking. thanks for the input.

[Tazman1602]

And if you're going to do that, you NEED to have your thumb alongside the stock, NOT over the comb............

Man lots of mention of the Duke here, none of you guys old enough to have watched Chuck Conners as Lucas McCain, The Rifleman?

Art


First off ,you don't throw down front of rifle. You drop your arm thats connected to the hand thats connected to the lever. Then you push your arm forward to get the rifle moving around in a circle. As the muzzle comes forward, the action will cycle. Although, if you are trying this with a 20" bbl, theres a good chance you will get cut by the front sight as it passes below your armpit.

[Armand]

First off ,you don't throw down front of rifle. You drop your arm thats connected to the hand thats connected to the lever. Then you push your arm forward to get the rifle moving around in a circle. As the muzzle comes forward, the action will cycle. Although, if you are trying this with a 20" bbl, theres a good chance you will get cut by the front sight as it passes below your armpit.

a BIG THANKS!

I tried it with a ( 16" ) Trapper, with the regular Barrel, a Chiappa .357 16", Large loop lever is on order ... hope it comes soon!

Your info was what I was looking for ... How to START that dam*** cycle????

Hermann

DPU = dumbest possible User ... :P

[Armand]

And if you're going to do that, you NEED to have your thumb alongside the stock, NOT over the comb............

Man lots of mention of the Duke here, none of you guys old enough to have watched Chuck Conners as Lucas McCain, The Rifleman?

Art

IIRC his gun had a pin fitted, so the rifle would fire on closing the action?

Was quite spectacular to watch, but in "normal" cycling, not twirling ... that was just too slow.

Hermann

[Poohgyrr]

I've bought big loop Levers because they were used at a good price, or on the shelf at the store and I didn't want to wait for a special order.

Either way, I bought another Lever, and was happy. And yeah, those big loops don't always fit right inside the case...

[chuck4570]

DRC on ebay has them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/251228687632?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
They are big enough for gloves but not big loop levers

[Four Fingers of Death]

They used to sell two 16 1/2" barrelled 94 Winchesters her in Australia. The 'Trapper' had a normal loop and the 'Wrangler' had a large loop. Haven't seen any Wranglers for a long time.

here is a link to a guy who is a big Rifleman fan and makes a business out of doing shows and converting rifles, etc. Lots of good video clips on the site.

I noticed that he doesn't do a full twirl, but uses the big loop to 'drop cock' the rifle I suppose you would call it.

http://www.riflemansrifle.com/

[TXBRILL]

I am old enough to remember watching The Rifleman and the Duke, as I recall Wayne started spinning in the original Stagecoach movie that was made in1939. Chuck Connor as I remember did not spin like the Duke he rather cocked it by flipping foward and then firing rapidly closing the lever, the lever had a screw poking through which tripped the trigger as it was closing. Although that was only how the show opened, he might have spun it during the show itself. I have both a Henry large loop 22, and a older Rossi .45 1892 large loop carbine. It is much easier to spin the 22 than the 45. Like I said earlier I have never done either one loaded, and certainly have no plans to try it, but I have to admit I have thought many times about installing that little screw in the lever.

[WinMike]

I don't like the looks either, but I don't live in Maine, Minnesota or any of the other cold-weather states. So I appreciate those who need the larger loops for weather and/or health reasons.

I just wish I could get some videos of the "Duke-Chuck Practice Sessions." You guys are missing out on producing some Youtube hits! I tried it once and my arms and legs are way too short!

[jh45gun]

I have one because it came on my Rossi Ranch Hand Pistol. I have no issues with it. Some John Wayne trivia

http://www.ranch26bar.com/DUKERIFLE.html

[Four Fingers of Death]

I was 10 when the Rifleman series came out in 1958! Lucas McCaine did the drop cock but not a full twirl usually (at least that's what I remember) The Duke did the full twirl a couple of times. The scene in Rooster Cogburn is a memory I will take to the grave! He had the reins in his mouth and I could never figure out why Americans ever used split reins. Us Aussies use one long rein and if you drop it or let go of it, it is just there in front of the saddle, easy peasy. Split reins are seen now in Australia as American Saddles become popular. Aussie saddles never had saddle horns and were generally higher in the back.

I have often wondered if you couldn't just weld in a loop using steel strap with the TIG (which I now have, but don't know how to drive and the night school fees are incredible now, a lost resourse). Has anyone ever done this?

The latter series of the 'Rifleman' used a flat bottomed loop which is apparently superior.

I had a Rifleman cap rifle which had small flip up lever on the inside of the trigger guard. Pop it down, single shots, flip it up, good to go making lots of noise. Seemed a lot more sensible than the screw idea. I would have thought that it would have been better to have a screw that bottoms out in exactly the right sopt for rapid shots, that was it could be engaged quickly and easily.The screws I see on the Rifleman's rifles all seem to have a lot of thread either way.

I can't remember how the rifleman cycled the lever, but Mike DiMuzio ( http://www.riflemansrifle.com/ ) cycles it with the lever between the ring and middle finger (a Vulcan Salute?). He sure is good with it though!

[TXBRILL]

I too had one of those Rifleman cap guns and remenber the lever, I have thought about putting a lever like I rember, the lever would have to be sort of a pivoting "U" channel wrapping around the bottom of the trigger guard so when its open, the edge of the lever would trip the trigger, the 2 problems I see are you would have to drill a hole for the lever to pivot and you would have to have some sort of indents on the sides of the "U" to tightly hold the lever closed and when the lever was open those same indents would stop the lever from closing, all this is well above me metal working skills. On the other hand it seems quite easy to figure out the angle through the trigger guard drill a hole, tap it and put in a Allen Head set screw squirt a dab of blue locktite and you could adjust the length of the set screw with a Allen key when you wanted to engage the lever fire function.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The flip up lever on my cap rifle was a small piece of angle.

I think the way to go would be to fit a screw and wind it in until it just tripped the trigger reliably without going too far and bottoming out, putting force on the trigger which would cause all sorts of problems down the track. Once this length is determined, a lock nut placed on the thread or even better, a screw the correct length be fitted, so that no set up was required and you could just screw it in until it bottomed out and you would be good to go. Don't want rapid fire? Back it off a few turns or completely unscrew it.

I get the impression that there is a bit more to it than just altering the lever.

The final shape of the John Wayne rifle would probably be the best set up. The picture is on the link above. Sort of big loop, but triangular almost.

The rifle I would like to convert is a 1908 built 19" Octangular barrel Winchester, but the barrel might be a tad heavy for optimum twirling, drop cocking.

My 44Mag SS Rossi which I hardly ever use would probably be a better bet, especially if I trimmed the barrel to 18" and re-chambered to 44Special or 44/40. There is another guy on another board who campaigns using Black Powder and he calls the 44Mag, the 44 Extra Long Russian.

I was also thinking (trouble is,I do a lot more thunking than doin' ) that one of the new rebounding hammers might be the go for a safer alternative to twirling. You have to have you finger actually on the trigger to set them off don't you? HaHa! We need a 92 Winchester with a Glock trigger for safe twirling! Twirling with a screw through the trigger guard that is designed to trip the trigger is a pretty scary thought. I noticed that Mike DiMuzio only twirls after blasting his targets, i.e, on an empty rifle.

Maybe some practice with a very heavy jacket and wax or glue bullets??? I have heard for many years about how unsafe it is, much the same as exploding mag tubes, but I never heard of anyone who actually shot himself or blew up a mag tube. Not saying that I want to be the first, just like to check it out a bit more.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I have a marlin 1895, and find its lever a bit small and uncomfortable to use, not too bad, only when I think about it, and I also like the look of the levers that are SLIGHTLY oversize, but some of those real big ones, I agree, just look dang unnatural

[Slow Elk 45/70]

IMHO, these are a great help to those of us who wear gloves and have large hands.....Just my
2( worth . I have them on all of my hunting guns-1894,1895, 94 Winnie . makes a big difference when I'm shooting 45/70 hunting loads. No more bruised fingers, I'm just an old guy, that doesn't like anymore pain than necessary
I don't care how (it) looks to others, I'm not watching westerns, I hunt meat, and the big bears hunt me and my meat !!!! not aimed at anyone in particular......I'm just a hunter here in Alaska,
had mine made before they became something for people to play with. Enjoy:redneck: [smilie=1:

[pietro]

.

I've bought several "big loop" leverguns - but soon switched out the levers for standard loop levers, swapping with other forum members that had what I wanted, and also wanted a big loop for their rifles. .:happy dance:

That way, TWO people were happy, me and the fella I swapped levers with. . :2_high5:

And, NO, I never even thought of getting beat out of a lever - IME, most forum/board members are honorable folks. . :drinks:



.

[Markbo]

DRC on ebay has them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/251228687632?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
They are big enough for gloves but not big loop levers

The listing has been removed.

[Malamute]

John Wane makes it look easy in Stagecoach. The gun isn't pointed at you when loaded when done the way he does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb4Q3jtyapc


Makes some sense for gloved hands. Maybe one of the really large ones cut down some would be more practical.

I think the shape difference between wayne and Conners may have been due to the different style of handling them. Steve McQeen had a large loop on his chopped down gun in Wanted, Dead or Alive, which was copied in the tv series Firefly and film Serenity used by Zoe Washburn.

[tygar]

I had Jim West put his Wild West setup on my .450 Marlin as my large hand got really slammed & would give me a bad bone bruise after a few shots. My other levers, Marlin, Rosey, Savage, didn't really hurt. Had the same trouble with my big double rifles with the 2 triggers. Had to put a pad on my middle finger when shooting them or move it from behind the trigger guard.