Sudden urge to buy a gun (458 win mag)

[wtfooptimax200]

Call me crazy, but I just have this sudden urge to buy a 458 win mag bolt action. Maybe it's my dream of going to Africa in ten years (I know that a 375 is far more useful/practical), I'm not really sure. Who owns one? Should I buy it? Thoughts are appreciated. This should be a fun conversation......

[PS Paul]

I just sold a model 70 safari express-grade winchester in .458. I shot A LOT of cast boolits in that thing over the years. I loved that rifle and had it outfitted with a Lyman peep sight. Can't recall which one..... It made you kinda have to "neck in" for each shot, so that would exacerbate the felt recoil, which was not always fun with heavy loads. If I had to do it again, I'd put either an extended eye relief scope in 2x or 4x, or a red dot on it. With the peep sight, it would keep three shots in an inch and a half at 100yards with regularity. Even with my non-correctable eye condition. That is why I put the peep on it: the only way to correct my vision.
Shot a fair amount of heavy solids in that thing too. Up to 500 grains,but the load I shot most often was a 405 gr. cast.Had a Lyman 390 gr.mold that was sort of a "Loverin-style" boolit that shot well also.

You should get one.They are really versatile and a ton of fun! .45-70 loads are easy to produce and a variety of medium-slow powders work well. 3031 and 4198 were most-often used by me. Has a lot of Alaska potential too for bear and moose. Fun!

Good luck and keep us posted. I sold that rifle for $550 last year, which was right around blue book value in near-perfect condition. I paid $500 for it back in 1992, but I thought (and hoped) it would have appreciated much more in value. New, the same rifle is around $900, IIRC. Just sold the very same rifle at my shop back in December and I sold my dies, moulds and brass to the guy who bought it. Gave him a KILLER deal on the stuff too. Wish I hadn't done that cuz a lot of guys on this forum could have used 'em, but it was a "weak"moment (ha-ha)!!

[8mm]

I am a recovering .458 "junkie". Over the years I have owned 5 of them. I still have 3 although though that number is soon to be reduced to one.

Originally in the mid 1960's when I was much younger and more stupid, I wanted a 45-70 cast bullet rifle. Even then an 86 Winchester was priced well beyond my reach. I had a 1903 Springfield action and found a local gunsmith who would mount a Douglas .458 barrel, alter the bolt, drill and tap the receiver, install a front sight and re blue it for about $120. Done deal! I bought 3 Lyman molds, 5 boxes of Remington brass and a set of 45-70 dies (used with modified shade tree technique) and I was good to go. Used a lot of range lead (my only source), 3031 or 2400 powder (quite inexpensive then), became proficient at pan lubing, loading unsized bullets and quite surprising had an MOA rifle, despite a technique that can only be described as crude.

I still have that rifle and it will be the last to go. It was and still is an excellent cast bullet rifle. Subsequently in better times, several Ruger 77RS rifles and No.1 Tropical rifles appeared. I still have one of each. The Rugers might be better suited to swatting Elephants, Cape Buff or Rhinos but were not so great at punching holes in paper with cast bullets. Apparently the substantial free-bore is detrimental to cast bullet accuracy. (Some contributors to this forum have successfully developed loading techniques to overcome this deficiency). My Springfield .458 has no freebore so it was a success in producing an affordable bolt action 45-70 (or 45-90). Since you are a cast bullet loader the 458 is a practical and affordable shooter. Are you convinced yet?

After all this rambling down memory lane, the advice from one who should not be giving advice, is to go for it! If you want a 458 that is reason enough. If there must be a practical side, you will have a rifle that can take down any critter on the planet. You will not likely be taking 600 yd. shots, but in my opinion, hunting is how close you can stalk the game, not how far.

Alas the years have passed and a bout with a retinal detachment and several surgeries, has resulted in medical advice to avoid using firearms with substantial recoil. That means potent 458 Win., 375 H&H, 338 Win, and the 300 magnums are no longer considerations if I wish to continue my eyesight. (Modest 45-70/ 458 loads are still on my menu until further notice).

[johnnybar]

Call me crazy, but I just have this sudden urge to buy a 458 win mag bolt action. Maybe it's my dream of going to Africa in ten years (I know that a 375 is far more useful/practical), I'm not really sure. Who owns one? Should I buy it? Thoughts are appreciated. This should be a fun conversation......
I LIKE YOUR STYLE! Our family trees must meet somewhere! I've had those same thoughts and also really get wound up about stories of buffalo hunts in the northern plains and feral bull cattle hunts in Texas brush country where .458 would shine. They are much more affordable than Africa. Man got to start googling for prices now...lol

[smoked turkey]

I read somewhere that the .458 Win Mag makes the best 45-70. I can't say I am ready to buy into that statement, but I will say that the .458 is a pleasure to shoot cast with. And as been stated they are very versitle with the so called mild to wild ability. It puts virtually any game anywhere within your reach. I say don't fight it man, just go for it!

[swamp]

I have a Ruger No1 in 484. Used to have a 77. It is a very versital(?) caliber. Not to mention fun. I load 150gr. collar button up to 500gr. It is all fun. Although till my shoulder heals I have to stay away from stiffer loads. Don't ask how I figured that out.

I say get it. I use low power scopes on mine.

swamp

[ebner glocken]

A buddy of mine has a 458 built on a 98 mauser, totally fun gun to shoot. I've loaded for him with several molds from 405 grain to 500. When paper patched you can go full tilt with 3031, a few rounds is all the fun I can handle. You can also go gas checked and have a mild mannered 45-70. If I found a deal on one I would surely be interested. If you're limited to factory ammo it gets a tad pricy, cheapest we've found is bumping 80 bucks a box..........it goes up from there.

Ebner

[offshore44]

I say, Go for it! My 458 is the most shot rifle in my collection of rifles. There are lots of little details about casting for and reloading the 458. A little searching around here will reveal everything you probably need to know to be successful. The .410 equivalent shotgun load is probably the worst performing out of the bunch. Still works though.

Check out the CZ American Safari...

I get really excited when the 300 Win Mag shooters leave their brass laying about. Free brass is a good thing.

[Dark Helmet]

Lots'a fellas on the board with 416 Taylors. Just Sayin' [smilie=1:

[Four Fingers of Death]

I had a BRNO (now CZ) in 458 Win mag. I refused to feed anything smaller than 500Gn bullets. My current heavy is a 416 Rigby in a Ruger No1 which is great, but brass cases are $7 each. I have been toying with going back to the 458WM as I have a lot of 457 moulds and brass is pretty cheap. They are a no nonsense rifle and capable of grassing pretty much anything.

There are a lot of professionals and non professionals that hunt in Africa who see the 458WM as being a tad underpowered for Africa and go for the 458Lott or similar. There are also a lot of others who happily hunt dangerous game with one so I don't know and short of a lottery win, I am not about to hunt in Africa.

[GARD72977]

I have had the ruger No 1 in both 45-70 and 458win mag. I ended up selling the 458 and keeping the 45-70. If it were a bolt gun I would go with the 458 win I think

[waksupi]

I just happen to have one for sale, with brass and dies. Winchester M-70.

[wtfooptimax200]

Uuugghhh...I talked to SWMBO and I don't think it's in the cards, I'll keep dreaming though. Thanks for making me even more eager!

[Cactus Farmer]

Lots'a fellas on the board with 416 Taylors. Just Sayin' [smilie=1:

416 and 375 Chatfield-Taylors. Awesome power and very cast boolit friendly. Hardcast416Taylor can tell you more. I'm just beginning my love affair.
Paper patched will shoot with the j-words for accuracy and speed.They seem to be a bit less in the recoil department.

[grimace1]

My philosophy is that the best reason to buy a rifle is because I don't have one. I used that logic to justify buying a .416 Rem a few years ago. I have no earthly use for it, but it sure is fun seeing people's reactions when I break it out.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My philosophy is that I would rather be sitting on the porch saying 'man that was some rifle, you should'ha heard it roar, and kick! Man oh man did it kick! Haha, yeah that was one great rifle.' Rather than saying 'no, I never had one of those, I wonder what they were like?'

[starmac]

I love your thinking. lol

[Four Fingers of Death]

I love your thinking. lol

How's that song go? " What was I thinking, I know what I was feeling, butttttttt what was I thinking?" haha!

[PTS]

Dierks Bentley. Just heard that song the other day. Good driving song!

[wrench man]

This is good stuff, I've beeen building a (collecting parts) for a 458WM on a K98 action for some years now, but yesterday I brought home a Ruger African home, I've got all kinds of reloading stuff squireled away to load for it.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I ended up buying a pair of Zastavas in 375H&H and 458WM. Both have Weaver 1-3x20 scopes in Warne rings. The scopes will be moved to my Marlin 336 and 444 and the 375 will get a 3-9X scope and the 458 will see an old Weaver 2.5 that is currently unemployed (and or just use the iron sights, not decided yet.

I bought a Gould copy 330Gn HP Group buy mould to use as a hunting boolit in my trapdoor with BP. I think this will make a nice mild mannered medium game and plinking boolit for the 458

[Clay M]

I had a nice Winchester model 70 classic in .458 win mag.It is a hell bender of a round,not lacking in recoil.I had a brake installed and a mercury suppressor put in the butt stock.It tamed it considerably.Wish I still had it,but really have no real need for such a rifle these days.The .375H&H mag is much more practical for my use.

[1Shirt]

Always wanted one, but never could justify the need or expense for it as I own both 45-70 and 375H&H. However if a real good deal came up-------who knows!
1Shirt!

[Hardcast416taylor]

The .416 Taylor is simply a .458 case necked down to .416 in the sizer die. Others make their cases out of other Win. mag. cases, but they all come out about the same. I`ve been using an RCBS 350 gr. modified HP mold and an Accurate #42-330 C mold along with my PP .40 cal. rifle boolets and my custom .416 PP mold. This cartridge is fun to shoot and easy to maintain, besides it kicks less than a .458 and will kill big "critters" just as dead.Robert

[bikerbeans]

Go for the 458 WM. I wanted one for a long time and finally now that I am at the doorstep of 60 years old I picked up a used CZ550 in 458WM. It is a hoot to shoot! The factory 510g Win SPs that came with the gun are really not that bad, recoil wise. I have single shot H&R slugs guns in 10 & 12 ga that kick a lot worse than my 458.

BB

[waksupi]

I just happen to have one for sale, with brass and dies. Winchester M-70.


Still got it, needs a new home. Daddy needs new teeth!

[Clay M]

I also had a .416 Rem Mag chambered in the exact model gun at the same time I had the .458 I am not sure which one kicked the most. Either one would give me a headache shooting off the bench.
I have a Browning stainless A bolt in .375H&H. It has the BOSS plus I put a mercury suppressor in the stock to add weight. It is actually very pleasant to shoot now that I got the weight to around 9.5pounds.

Thinking back ten years I believe the .458 was worse.Something about a 500 grain bullet in that 1:16 twist is nasty.

[Stephen Cohen]

Four Fingers, how do you find the Zastava in 458, I have been told they are a little light and light in the barrel. All the other calibre Zastavas I have seen seem good guns for the money.

[No_1]

I have the urge also but my fix is a #1 with the barrel set back then properly re-chambered & throated to remove the factory issues.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Four Fingers, how do you find the Zastava in 458, I have been told they are a little light and light in the barrel. All the other calibre Zastavas I have seen seem good guns for the money.

I don't know! I used the permit to buy another rifle and am awaiting a new permit I think it will be a bit of a handful with full loads. I will let you know.

[fouronesix]

If I were to set up a three gun battery for Africa, I'd choose 1) 30-06 or 338-06. 2) 375 HH or 416 Rem. 3) 458 Lott. But that's just me.

If you are serious about Africa, currently you probably won't find much support or recommendation for the 458 WM if compared to the 458 Lott. Just saying

[wonderwolf]

When I was 18 or 19 I purchased a .458 Win Mag on a Remington 700 action and outfitted it with a Williams peep sight and a Gold front bead sight (Best combination EVER). Along with the Rifle I purchased about 3 or 400 rounds of factory ammo for next to nothing (Don't hate me, you would have done it too), A bunch of new bagged brass for next to nothing and reloading dies....and the book "Big Bore Rifles".

My .458 Win Mag does not get to go to the range as much as my .375 H&H these days....All I really want to do is hit a ground hog with it and one of the 510gr Winchester soft points factory loaded :) .....I'm 27 now....have 4 other "big bore" rifles (rifles over .32 caliber) and not ONE of them beat me up as bad as that .458 Win Mag.....but not one of them will punch a hole in a rail road tie plate so cleanly. Mind you though....the factory loads when shot at steel though they punch all the way through they shed their jacket and it comes back at you slow enough you can catch it if the arch is right....scared me the first time it happened. With factory loads I have a picture somewhere of 2 shots fired off hand by me at 75' touching....which is a good considering I weight 150lb's and the rifle has a recoil of over 70lbs when touched off.

[PTS]

Great post wonderwolf; I’ve been enamored of the .458 Win ever since I read Peter Capsticks books on Africa. His favorite as I remember. I don’t see me ever owning one, but I'll never say never. Love to read stories of them though.

[g5m]

Love the 458. It can bite at both ends, of course, as it should. But, it's a fun rifle. I once loaded some rounds with primers that were defective in some fashion. Had a bunch of misfires and hangfires. THAT does get your attention!
I can recommend the cartridge for shooting through things. I've never shot game with it, and don't plan to.
But, it is like a really Super 45-70.
I can recommend a Mauser action for one. And Winchester. I did get to shoot one in a Ruger bolt gun that wouldn't feed worth a hoot so, based on that one example only, would be concerned until trial for that particular model.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My old Brno (CZ) would only feed 500Gn solids, end of story! They fed like frogsnot, everything else, especially the 300Gn bullets were awkward feeders. My Ruger 416Rigby doesn't have any feeding probs (haha! Because it is a No1!). Time I went to bed!

[fouronesix]

:mrgreen:
ANY light sporter pushing a 500 grain bullet 2000-2400 fps is going to be not so pleasant to shoot. There are/were more than one light weight Ruger single shots chambered in 458 Win Mag that quickly became closet queens and the 458 Win Mag has to be pushed pretty hard to even achieve 2000 fps with a 500 gr bullet.

For a dream or future Africa rifle there are really only two game animals that may need the big 458 cal 450-500 gr at 2000-2400 fps category of cartridge- rhino and elephant. Those hunts, being so expensive and/or restrictive, petty much exclude all but a select few hunters with the money or taste to do it. A PH's stopper rifle is, in reality and by necessity, much different from a hunter's sporter rifle. The two are often confused.

Where the 458 Win Mag can get it done- the Lott is much more versatile and can be loaded from mild 458 Win Mag levels to levels exceeding the Win Mag without even breathing hard. For absolute reliability for dangerous game (namely rhino and elephant) in greatly varying temperature ranges, the Lott excels while the Win Mag can be and has been known to be problematic.

So for most all the other "dangerous" African game including lion, hippo and buffalo the big 45s thru the 50s can be counterproductive simply by their nature of having lots of recoil- they don't get practiced with much, don't get shot much. Many "buanas" may not be able to ever shoot them very accurately.

For the "other" dangerous game- the 375-416s are probably much better choices. Even hippo, the most common and under-hunted of the really big African game, are rarely shot on land with the conventional heart-lung-shoulder shot. They are normally brain shot in the water which favors a very accurate rifle- something like an accurate, scoped '06 being ideal.

As to P.H. Capstick- very good writer who had a certain flair for embellishment and experience by proxy- not a bad thing just the reality of the competitive market of outdoor/hunting literature.

wonderwolf, you're wish was my command :)

[wonderwolf]

:mrgreen:
ANY light sporter pushing a 500 grain bullet 2000-2400 fps is going to be not so pleasant to shoot. There are/were more than one light weight Ruger single shots chambered in 458 Win Mag that quickly became closet queens and the 458 Win Mag has to be pushed pretty hard to even achieve 2000 fps with a 500 gr bullet. For a dream or future Africa rifle there are really only two game animals that may need the big 458 cal 450-500 gr at 2000-2400 fps category of cartridge- rhino and elephant. Those hunts, being so expensive and/or restrictive, petty much exclude all but a select few hunters with the money or taste to do it. A PH's stopper rifle is, in reality and by necessity, much different from a hunter's sporter rifle. The two are often confused. Where the 458 Win Mag can get it done- the Lott is much more versatile and can be loaded from mild 458 Win Mag levels to levels exceeding the Win Mag without even breathing hard. For absolute reliability for dangerous game (namely rhino and elephant) in greatly varying temperature ranges, the Lott excels while the Win Mag can be and has been known to be problematic. So for most all the other "dangerous" African game including lion, hippo and buffalo the big 45s thru the 50s can be counterproductive simply by their nature of having lots of recoil- they don't get practiced with much, don't get shot much. Many "buanas" may not be able to ever shoot them very accurately. For the "other" dangerous game- the 375-416s are probably much better choices. Even hippo, the most common and under-hunted of the really big African game, are rarely shot on land with the conventional heart-lung-shoulder shot. They are normally brain shot in the water which favors a very accurate rifle- something like an accurate, scoped '06 being ideal. As to P.H. Capstick- very good writer who had a certain flair for embellishment and experience by proxy- not a bad thing just the reality of the competitive market of outdoor/hunting literature.

I've heard a lott (snicker) of good arguments for the lott over the WM, maybe someday I'll trade for one. Also paragraph breaks are your friend and would make that a lot easier to read

[Just Duke]

Were shooting a 500 grain Lee poured from a ladle and 40 grains of IMR 4198 powder.
Barbie shoots a whole box at a time. Anyone want pics as proof I'll post them of here shooting the .458.
I just wish I knew what velocity these are moving at.

[Just Duke]

I read somewhere that the .458 Win Mag makes the best 45-70. I can't say I am ready to buy into that statement, but I will say that the .458 is a pleasure to shoot cast with. And as been stated they are very versitle with the so called mild to wild ability. It puts virtually any game anywhere within your reach. I say don't fight it man, just go for it!


It does.

[dh2]

Don't every one have one I have an inter arms an off shoot of the 98 mauser control round feeding , to me any bolt action rifle over .366 dia. bullet will be control round feeding, as for the .458 Win . Mag. the thing I love about it is easy to load to 45/70 with 405 gr slug good deer and pig round

[HollandNut]

I've got a CZ 550 in the Lott and it shoots winnies as well .. This is my fifth Lott .. They kick butt in Africa , I have tooken five capes with them through the years .. Also had one of the first 416 Taylors waay back yonder ..

Go for it