Red Dot in 45acp

[newton]

Thought I would contribute a little here in case anyone is curious. I wanted to load some really light loads for my boy to shoot out of my BH 45acp cylinder. I had a bottle of Red Dot sitting there and thought why not.

I looked for some loads, but I really wanted a low load. Most of my searching came up with 4 - 4.5 grains. I have a powder thrower, but I wanted to see what my lee scoops threw also. I came up with .5 cc, which was 3.5 grains.

I loaded a lee 230 grain TC boolit, regular lube groove. Tumbled with LLA/JPW, do not know the portions off hand, but do plan on making some recluse lube and trying again.

So the OAL was 1.18", I believe. Seeing how there is no data, I had settled on something between 1.17" and 1.20". 1.18" is where I ended up.

Over the chrony at 5' I was getting a consistent 684 fps. I did not do much more testing than that because these are really and truly just for plinking. My 9 year old boy handled them just fine hitting 3 balloons with 7 shots at 10 yards. Not too bad for a first time kid shooting a 45!

Crazy when the most expensive part of reloading is the primer. Fun shooting.

[newton]

Oh, my barrel is a 4 5/8" too.

[saintdel]

I like Red Dot in a lot of things. Not surprised this worked well. Not clear what firearm you were using, 4 5/8 sounds like a single action. Oh, I see it now, BH = Blackhawk. But balloons! Why haven't I thought of that?

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I use Red Dot in he 45ACP with 225-230 grain round nose. 4.0-4.1 grains. It feeds well and the recoil is moderate. Its a little bit slower than Bullseye. The red colored flakes are actual powder; I once fished a bunch out and loaded them with the same charge and they worked the same as the non-colored ones. RD also works well with semi-wads and WC's. LLS

[stubshaft]

My old IPSC (back in the day) load for the 45ACP was 5.2 RD behind a 200gr RCBS SWC. It came right out of the Hornady Manual and used to make major power factor.

I love that powder and have used "tons" of it in 12ga too.

[P.K.]

Thanks for the info!

[MaineJim]

I use RD on .45acp,target .38s and works well in 9mm as well.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Back in the days when I couldn`t afford a great deal of "fooling around" powders, etc. I used Red Dot in all my different caliber handguns as well as my 12 and 20 Gauge shotguns.Robert

[Rangefinder]

RD is probably my all-time favorite powder. It may not be the "best" for many things, but I have a load for everything using it. As long as I have RD on the shelf, shooting is possible.

[newton]

I use RD on .45acp,target .38s and works well in 9mm as well.

I picked up the Red Dot to use mainly in 38 special and 9mm. But after I started looking most say it is hard to make it work in 9mm.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Red Dot - My favorite since I started reloading in 1968. Great for many 12 ga loads. I use it in my practice loads in .380 ACP, 9mm, .38 S&W, .38 Special, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and .45 Colt. Gets you in the middle of the velocity range for those cartridges easily, burns clean, and a little goes a long way. It is nice an bulky, so in big cases like .45 Colt, .30-30, .303 British, it doesn't seem to be position sensitive.

[Sven]

I've ended up using Red Dot as my standard .45acp load for Bullseye. With a 200 gr SWC, 4.2 gr is my 50 yard slow fire load, and 3.7 gr is my 25 yard timed and rapid fire load. Both function perfectly with the green spring in my Gold Cup Trophy or the 12# spring in my Les Baer. The LB will shoot 2" with that 50 yard load from sandbags. Good enough for me!

[zomby woof]

I started using it last season for .45, it works great. Tried it with .38 spl, good there too.

[GR Pitts]

Red Dot - My favorite since I started reloading in 1968. Great for many 12 ga loads. I use it in my practice loads in .380 ACP, 9mm, .38 S&W, .38 Special, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and .45 Colt. Gets you in the middle of the velocity range for those cartridges easily, burns clean, and a little goes a long way. It is nice an bulky, so in big cases like .45 Colt, .30-30, .303 British, it doesn't seem to be position sensitive.

Just curious on what powder charge you are using with Red Dot inyour 9mm & what kind of bullet? I shoot a lot of Red Dot in 45 ACP but have been unable to find reloading data for 9mm. I usually shoot eith 115 grn JHP, 125 Grn FMJ, 105 grn cast or 125 grn cast in my 9mm. Would appreciate the info.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

The bullet is Lee's 120 gn TC. Mine casts a little fat, and I lube and size at .358, barely touching the bullets.

The load is 4.5 gns of Red Dot.

My Lyman Reloading Handbook, 46th edition, shows the following:
3.9 - 4.9 gns for Lyman #358345, a 115 gn SWC
3.8 - 4.5 gns for Lyman #356402, a 121 gn TC (real long nose)
These are listed start and max.
The Lee 120 gn TC does not need to be seated deeply. I barely cover the grease groove, and taper crimp in a separate step.
My load has been fired in my Kel-Tek P-11, a Glock, and S&W M&P. No signs of high pressure, including no Glock smiley.
An initial attempt to use 4.0 gns would not cycle the Kel-Tek at all, and the S&W M&P maybe 25% of the time. it was not tried in the Glock.

[GR Pitts]

Thanks for the info. I have Lyman's 47th RL edition & the same data is in there for the 115 grain bullet. I primarily shoot 105 grn SWC or 125 grn RN, in the 9mm, although the 125 grn bullet comes out to 130 grains using wheel weights. Lyman 4th edition Cast Bullet handbook has charges listed for 120 grn cast using red dot, showing 3.9 grains as a max, which seems a bit conservative, especially since 47th edition RL handbook shows 4.5 grains of red dot max with a 121 grain bullet. Now, I am using 4.8 grains of unique with both cast bullets above & work great.

[bruce drake]

5gr of RD for both my 230gr TC Lee Mold as well as my 200 SWC Lee Mold in my ARMSCOR 1911. Both work just fine to deliver 750fps and 800fps respectively.

Bruce

[MaineJim]

I picked up the Red Dot to use mainly in 38 special and 9mm. But after I started looking most say it is hard to make it work in 9mm.

Hi,i use 4 grains RD with the RCBS 124 CN in my models 17 and 26 Glocks and they shoot very accurately and no leading.
Hard alloy is needed,at least 15-16 bhn,i use heat treated wheel weights.
With J words 4.5 grains works great with standard 115 grain ball.
I tried 4.5 grains with the RCBS boolit but i believe its over the +p range,they weigh 130 grains with my alloy.

[35remington]

Red Dot is actually a bit faster than Bullseye, and I never chronographed a load in 45 ACP wherein an equivalent amount of Bullseye outran an equivalent amount of Red Dot. This is generally true in most metallics.

A load of 5 grains of Red Dot that chronographs only 750 fps with a 230 grain lead bullet from a five inch 1911 means you have a slooooow barrel. Typical ballistics from a lead 230 TC in my own 1911's with such a charge is more on the order of 870 fps or so. Never, ever have I seen a load of Red Dot of that charge weight go that slow with a 230, so hearing of such slow velocity is news to me. My 4.2" Ruger P97 barrel gets about 840 with such a charge, so it ain't me and my guns that are atypical.

With a 200 grain HG 68 type bullet velocities are over 900 fps; I get 800 fps with 4.2 grain charges.

[newton]

Red Dot is actually a bit faster than Bullseye, and I never chronographed a load in 45 ACP wherein an equivalent amount of Bullseye outran an equivalent amount of Red Dot. This is generally true in most metallics.

A load of 5 grains of Red Dot that chronographs only 750 fps with a 230 grain lead bullet from a five inch 1911 means you have a slooooow barrel. Typical ballistics from a lead 230 TC in my own 1911's with such a charge is more on the order of 870 fps or so. Never, ever have I seen a load of Red Dot of that charge weight go that slow with a 230, so hearing of such slow velocity is news to me. My 4.2" Ruger P97 barrel gets about 840 with such a charge, so it ain't me and my guns that are atypical.

With a 200 grain HG 68 type bullet velocities are over 900 fps; I get 800 fps with 4.2 grain charges.

I know for a fact that OAL can play a significant role in pressure/speed. I was working up a 9mm load and just by seating the boolit .075 deeper it spiked the fps up 100 in a 2" barrel.

[35remington]

OAL does affect things, true. But a workable OAL of much over 1.220 and 1.250" is not possible with either of the two mentioned bullets as the bullet's bearing surfaces start to strike the rifling origin, and at that OAL the claimed velocities with 5 grains Red Dot are still very slow compared to what I get. I load mine at the mentioned overall lengths. That is, as long as possible given chambering issues.

Had the OAL's been shorter the loads would have even less excuse to be that slow. So my comments still stand. That's a seriously slow barrel.

[jdgabbard]

This thread makes me smile, as I just piste a thread today about picking up a jug of it for the purpose of loading for my 45s.

[jonp]

I'm also finding this interesting as I am about to start working up loads for my 9mm and 45ACP with Promo which is the same by weight as Red Dot. Some loads I have seen from Alliant and some that are in my Lymans 49 are quite different for Red Dot so am looking for a place to start. Lots of good info here

[35remington]

Can't comment on the 9mm, but in 45 ACP 4 grains makes a nice target and frequent use load as it is economical on powder (Promo, that is.....I use it as well as I'm cheap). Velocity obtained for my with an HG 68 type bullet is, as I recall, just under or near 800 fps but I'll check that tonight and I'll report back. I'll give exact bullet and OAL and velocity and gun.

My latest lot of Promo happens to have the same weight in the same cavity size as that of my last lot of Red Dot.

[jonp]

45ACP 200gr lswc (Hornady #12108) I started with 4gr Promo. did not reliably cycle the slide or chamber the next round so went up to 4.2gr and bingo. Worked with minimal recoil. Went up to 5gr Promo for more power but everything in between worked fine.
OAL 1.195 with this boolit

[Artful]

My old IPSC (back in the day) load for the 45ACP was 5.2 RD behind a 200gr RCBS SWC. It came right out of the Hornady Manual and used to make major power factor.

I love that powder and have used "tons" of it in 12ga too.

Yep, I used the Lyman 452460 instead of the RCBS but Red-Dot did very well by me - I think Unique is actually my favorite powder but I have a big ol jug of it I'm slowly working my way thru.
http://imageshack.us/a/img263/3311/1211101520a.jpg

[newton]

Good Night! One of these days I want to buy a powder keg. Just so I can look at it. I think 15 pounds of Red Dot would last quite a while. Of course, I would probably just shoot more is all.

[DanWalker]

Me too! Those kegs are cool. The 2 8lb plastic jugs and one 4lb plastic jug of red dot on my shelf just don't have the same cool factor.

[Matt_G]

Artful, that pic of the old keg of Hercules Red Dot brought a tear to my eye.

[9.3X62AL]

Artful, that pic of the old keg of Hercules Red Dot brought a tear to my eye.

Truly, a thing of beauty.

Red Dot was the very first powder I ever used to reload with, about 1970 or thereabouts for 12 gauge shotshells. 1-1/8 oz of 7-1/2s, 18.0 grains of the RD, into WW AA hulls with WW12 White wads. Back then, this was a standard trap and skeet load. These days, the trapsnots prefer to turn their 12 bores into 20s, with 7/8 oz loads and tiny powder weights. Sissy-la-las.

[Artful]

What memories indeed, I can't pass on pictures as in the old days Film Camera's were expensive and we didn't waste pictures on our hobbies much.

But the Rod & Gun Club used to get in Large Drums of powder and sell it off to you by the pound in paper bags. Surplus 4831, BL-C2, 4064 - I miss the old days.

[Matt_G]

Truly, a thing of beauty.

Red Dot was the very first powder I ever used to reload with, about 1970 or thereabouts for 12 gauge shotshells. 1-1/8 oz of 7-1/2s, 18.0 grains of the RD, into WW AA hulls with WW12 White wads.

Al, that load sounds exactly like what I first loaded as well, about '74. My Dad bought a Mec 650 and that was the load we picked out. Went to the store to get components and he had everything but the Red Dot. He did have a keg of Green Dot though so we bought that. 20.0 grs of Green was the same as 18.0 grs. of Red.
That keg of powder kept my Dad and I in shells for clay pigeons, doves, rabbits, pheasant, ducks (6 or 4 shot on the last three) for several years.
Good memories...

[9.3X62AL]

That load was The Load for the claysports back in the day, and it served pretty well in the game fields too. This was a time before shotgunning became a yuppie trash sport requiring fashion statements, Range Rovers, and Italian stackbarrels. It's still blue jeans, obnoxious T-shirts, and Rem 870s for me. It is unalloyed Nirvana to whup they sorry butts attired and equipped in that manner.

[TXBRILL]

I also have depended on Red Dot since the early 80's, I now use Promo instead (due to the price for 8lb jugs), as most of you know it can be substituted by weight with Red Dot but not by volume.

[OregonCaster]

I've used RD before in my 45 ACP loads but found "Clays" a little bit more accurate but if it's for punching holes in paper and you like it then load them up and shoot away.

[9.3X62AL]

I've never found the 45 ACP to be cranky or screwy about powders OR about cast boolits.......unlike a few other rifle-pressure autopistol calibers that come to mind. Bullseye, Red Dot, WW-231 all have done well for me, and Blue Dot + Speer 200 grain Flying Ash Trays did some impressive velocities for me without much strain to the platforms. THAT is a pretty wide range of powder speeds right there.

If all I had on hand was Red Dot.......my 38 Specials, 45 ACPs, and 12 gauges would be well-served.

[Alan]

Red Dot is my go-to powder for .45 & 9mm. Starting out I generally drop .2 or so under starting load, and put 1 cartridge in the magazine. I work up until the gun will JUST lock the slide and then start hunting for accuracy. generally .2 or .3 grains above that. 122gr concial in 9mm gets 3.9 gr, and 230gr RN gets 4.9 in .45. I crank them out by the bucketload, and don't like loads that batter my guns. Need to get busy, cause my gf and her daughter ran me completely out of the 9mm loads Sunday after church.

[35remington]

FWIW.....4.9 Red Dot in 45 ACP under a 230 isn't wimpy. Midrange it ain't. It's full power, easily.

[358 Win]

I use a lot of Red Dot also. In my 1911A1 and my 12 gauge loads.

If anyone wants to see the true accuracy potential of a 44 Magnum handgun, try 6.5 grains of Red Dot and any 240 grain swaged lead bullet. Velocity is only
868 fps but the grouping will astound you. It's been my favorite mild load in my three screw Ruger Super Blackhawk for over 30 years. That load works great on our Pennsylvania Ground Hogs and would also double as a fine self defense load. Every 44 Magnum deserves at least one trial run with that load.

358 Win

[Springfield]

66117


Never used Red Dot but will have to now as I got these 3 containers in an Estate sale last month. And yes I store my powder in an old fridge. Got it free on Craigslist. Keeps everything at a more constant temp, dry, and somewhat fire-resistant.

[rojkoh]

If you're going to use this in a .45acp, overall length is 1.260 max. With some of the variations of the .45acp pistols, it's best to seat to 1.250 because in some cases, the Para_ord mags need them shorter and there are some tight/short chambers out there.

For a kid, I use 4.7 of 231. It's also a pleasant practice load for older people.

If you have a star or a press that can accommodate finer powder, titegroup is popular, but not for a Dillon. I shoot this in everything from a Lichtman/Simmerling to a comp auto.

[victor3ranger]

I just started using Red Dot for my 45acp load with 4.8g behind a 230g RN Lee boolit, I love the way it shoots thru my RIA 5".

What I would like to know is for those who have used Red Dot in 30-30, 308, or 30-06, what kind of loads did you sue for these calibers?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

What I would like to know is for those who have used Red Dot in 30-30, 308, or 30-06, what kind of loads did you sue for these calibers?

I haven't for the 30 cal yet... BUT I load some Red Dot in 223 with a Plain based 50gr Ranch Dog cast boolit. I started at 6.0 and had lousy accuracy in my CZ 527, ...shotgun groups I tell ya ! I started dropping powder charges...when I got to 4.0gr. I started getting nice groups, chrono said about 1600FPS.
Good Luck,
Jon

PS, Oh Yeah, I use Red Dot in 45acp as well...in fact, I'm loading some today, 5.2gr. with the Lee 228gr. I like 'em on the stiff side...and I make sure I never use that load in my 1917 ;)

[jdgabbard]

I load 4.7grs in mine over two different 230gr pills. I just loaded some test loads for my 9mm carbine with 4.3gr over the 356402. We'll see how it shoots.

[mwjones]

I use RD on .45acp,target .38s and works well in 9mm as well.

I also use it for 12g, 6.5x55, .308, .303 british, 7.62x54r :) I get it from the skeet club for $20/lb so i've worked up cast loads for just about everything with it :)

[Artful]

"The Load" from C.E. Ed Harris - it does good stuff in quite a few gun's/calibers.

[jdgabbard]

Btw, I actually got a chance to go shoot the other day. Didn't shoot for accuracy, but I wasn't really impressed with 4.3 356402 load. Out of a keltec pf-9 and my ruger PC-9 carbine they didn't seem to want to land on the 14x14 board like I'd hope for. I saved some of the 200 I loaded for a real range test. But I'm fairly certain I'm going to up the load. My 4.7 load over a 230gr pill in the acp turned out to be a good paper puncher.

Now I will say I got zero leading in the pistol or the rifle with the 9mm load. Sized to .358 and lubed with carnauba red. But as said above I'm going to have to do a more formal range test to check the load...