38 Special Wadcutter Brass?

[Down South]

I've read in a couple places that 38 Special Wadcutter brass has one or two crimp rings about center ways of the case?
Does it make that much difference if wadcutters are loaded in standard brass or not?

Reason for asking, I shoot a lot of Wadcutters just plinking and I acquired a lot of 38 special brass with the one or two crimp rings about center ways of the case. I've got some more that has a crimp ring about 1/4" from the case mouth but I figured that was standard 38 Special brass.

[Char-Gar]

Winchester and Remington WC brass has two crimp, Federal has one and I have some Frontier with none. I sort my brass with an expandable hole gage. It is easy..stick the gage into a regular case and again in a WC case. It goes much farther down in the WC case.

Does it matter? Yes it does and it matters more if you are using a HBWC. WC and especially HBWCs are long for their weight and the longer parallel sides allow for uniform tension on the bullets and in the case of the HB does not crush the thin bottom skirt. If it didn't matter, the factories would not load their match 38 Specials in those cases. If you are a plinker, it probably won't matter.

[1Shirt]

Have loaded, gosh hate to think of how many of these cases over the years. Don't disagree with Char-gar, but have found that most of the crimp sort of blends in or disappears with repeated fireings.
1Shirt!

[Down South]

Well, I bought 1,300 rds of 38 Special brass and I'm about half way through sorting it out. I'm sorting the WC brass. Since I have it, I'll reserve it for my WC loads. It looks like right now almost half of it is WC brass.

[Matt_G]

You may want to read this thread if you haven't yet. Good stuff here...
75-000-Wadcutters-in-a-Model-27 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156622-75-000-Wadcutters-in-a-Model-27)

Specifically read post 17 on page 1 by Char-Gar.
He goes into more detail on the differences between standard and wad cutter cases there...

[dragon813gt]

I always wondered what the extra lines on the brass were for. I have a lot of 357 brass that has them. Mostly nickel at that. I'm glad I found out I shouldn't be shooting full power loads from them, which I have. Looks like I'll be separating brass tomorrow night.

[Down South]

You may want to read this thread if you haven't yet. Good stuff here...


Good read. I see the 10-cavity H&G #50 PB mould is mentioned. I have one of those and that's the WC I'm shooting.

[Char-Gar]

I do love the 38 Special cartridge and have over a dozen handguns in that caliber. Just for grins here is the natural home of 38 wadcutter brass. A Smith and Wesson K-38 and a Colt Officers Model (1947 vintage).6130961310

[Down South]

I'm going to look at a gun collection that will be going up for sale this weekend. The sale of the collection won't be till latter on but I get to pick through it. Hopefully I can find a couple old Smith's or a Colt.

[BCRider]

A mid ring around a .357Mag case isn't because it's a wadcutter case. Only .38Spl was ever made with the classic wadcutter loading. So on the .357's it's something else.

I've got a bunch of .38Spl cases that have midpoint bands. And I'm about to buy a bunch of HBWC boolits. It'll be interesting to compare the different cases.

[uscra112]

I'm going to look at a gun collection that will be going up for sale this weekend. The sale of the collection won't be till latter on but I get to pick through it. Hopefully I can find a couple old Smith's or a Colt.
You won't be sorry to have a Colt O.M. if it's a good one. Mine once had an experienced cowboy action gunsmith gaping in amazement at what it would do with it's favorite load. I do not regret the price I paid, and no amount of money will induce me to let it go.

[Char-Gar]

BCRider.. The HBWC is a "special needs" bullet. Because of the hollow base, they are quite long for the weight and stick down in the case farther than even the solid base wadcutter bullets. Most of them are swaged of soft load and it is not hard to crush the skirt on the hollow base in the case.

We solved this issue with the use of a special long expander that measures .3585 in diameter. This expands the wadcutter brass far enough down and large enough to not damage the hollow base. RCBS used to sell these, but they no longer do. I sent them an email about a years ago, and they had never heard of such a thing. But, believe me they used to make and sell them, as I have and use one.

The second issue which is a safety issue is the skirt of the HB bullet can blow off if the pressures go higher than the mild target load of 2.7/Bullseye. Now there are HBWCs and their are HBWCs, any they vary greatly in the size of the hollow base and consequently the thickness of the skirt. Remington factory HBWCs which are for sale can take higher pressure than the Speers without blowing of the skirt, which gets left in the barrel as an obstruction for the next bullet to hit.

The HBWC does offer some benefits over the solid base wadcutter in terms of accuracy, but there are some issues associated with their use which requires attention.

At one time in this country, when Bullseye shooting was stronger, how to load and shoot wadcutters in sixguns was common knowledge. But the good old Colt and Smith and Wesson target 38's are no longer made and the knowledge of how to feed them seems to have be gone as well.

I don't know what to tell you about the long and large expander, but if I didn't have one, I would contact something with a lathe to make me one. If I didn't want to do that I would stick to the solid base versions of the bullets as nothing will be gained by going to the hollow base bullets. Such and expander needs to be slightly longer than the longest HBWC on the market and .3585 in size. A light taper crimp on the case mouth will hold the bullets in place quite nicely. The factories rolled a second cannalure into the loaded round below the bullet to keep it from being shoved down in the case. That is why you see a second crimp on WC brass by Winchester, Western, Remington and Peters. A bullet that gets shoved down into the case can result in horrid pressures.

Unless you are planning on competition at a high level, the advance of the HBWC over the SBWC will not be noticed or helpful. You will be using bullets with "special needs" and not reaping any benefits for the extra care and work. Back in my Bullsye days, we all cast solid base wadcutters for practice. Come match time, we invested in some factory match ammo, as it would outshoot our solid base wadcutter practice ammo. Of course, the bullets in the factory ammo were of the hollow base variety.

[45 2.1]

Well, I bought 1,300 rds of 38 Special brass and I'm about half way through sorting it out. I'm sorting the WC brass. Since I have it, I'll reserve it for my WC loads. It looks like right now almost half of it is WC brass.

When you do that, try the brass in a carbide 38 Super or 38 S&W (not special) sizer. Both are a little larger in size, let the brass fill the cylinder tighter and, unfortunately, only accept about 0.359" boolits or larger if you want any tension on the boolit.

[beenpicking]

Thanks! guy's! I had no idea. Just getting back in to reloading. I only loaded 44 mag. in the 70's and 80's. Lost my way and had a very close freind that supplyed me with reloads for years. I am getting my reloading supplys togeather. I still have about 3000 rounds of 38 special seald in vacum pack of 50. I will be very careful sorting them.