Hang Fire
02-14-2013, 11:32 AM
Paid $400.00 each for them, but they are unissued with 100% blue and new wood. Last year I lucked out getting a 1942 Sako M39 for 150 bucks when this same gun shop had it mixed up in a rack with Russian MN M91 rifles.
The no name sneaks are given up to be the crème de crème of M39 rifles, as they were built specifically as sniper rifles.
Interesting as to how they came into being to deceive the Soviets.
From Finnish gun writer P. T. Kekkonen.
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/QA17.html
"FINNISH "SNEAK M-39" RIFLES
I recently bought a Finnish Mosin Nagant M-39. It looks like it is new. It was made in 1970. That's the date on the barrel shank. Here in the U.S. it is considered a "SNEAKS" M-39. What does "SNEAK" mean? And, how could I find out more information about these late production M-39 rifles.
Thank you; Adam
Word "Sneak" is not Finnish, but these rifles are actually assembled since late 1960s until about 1972 in Finland from the huge piles of spare parts of Mosin-Nagant actions, Finnish-made stocks and the barrels made by VKT (State's Rifle Factory) and SAKO Oy during our Third Independence Struggle/ Continuation War in 1941 - 44. Many unused spare barrels were not yet finished and blackened or even stamped by the manufacturer's logo (S inside a gear or VKT), but they bear the stamp "ASEV 1". Shortened barrels of Russian Mosin-Nagant model 1891 aren't also uncommon in these rifles. Those barrels were, of course, unused, selected, and of highest available quality.
If somebody find a stamp CHATELLERAULT 1892 or REMINGTON 1917 or some Russian markings from his/her Model 1939 rifle's barrel shank along with an ASEV 1 stamp with a date between late 1960s and early 1970s, he/she is not bought a fake! Bore and chamber dimensions of M-39 are exactly similar to those of original Mosin-Nagant M-1891. Therefore the selected M-N barrels are completely serviceable in M-39 rifles, and the existence of Russian, French or American barrel in latest production batch of a Finnish military bolt-action rifle doesn't mean that the M-39 is a fake. Usually it means that the rifle is very accurate. Let's think, why they were assembled almost a decade since official adoptment of assault rifles! For use of the "second class" snipers: For the marksmen not yet qualified to get a (rare) scoped rifle, but who were more skilled shooters than average riflemen, like "Okhotniks" of Russian Red Army during their Great Patriotic War in 1941 - 45.
Almost all of "Sneak M-39s" were assembled by ASEVARIKKO 1 in a town Kuopio; nowadays KUOPION ASEVARIKKO. (Finnish word "asevarikko" means "the arms depot of Finnish Army"). The stamp ASEV 1 means just the depot (not a factory) where the rifles are assembled. Receivers, barrels and breech-bolts may all bear the different serial numbers. Parts of the bolt may also be stamped with variable numbers. They were assembled from the huge pile of spare parts, but - PLEASE NOTE! - they were assembled scrupulously: Too big or too small clearance of a headspace was not allowed. Actually, the allowances of bore, chamber and action dimensions were smaller than those of original rifles M-39 made for use of average riflemen, as these "Sneak Rifles" were made for sniping. If the barrel was chopped from an old Mosin-Nagant M-1891 barrel, it's muzzle end was somewhat too thin. The front sight of rifle M-39 was fitted on it with a thin-walled bushing. Barrels, receivers and steel furnitures of these rifles are blackened to look very beautiful.
The nick-name "Sneak(s) Rifle" is presumably coined in U.S.A., but origin of it may be Finnish "Salapyssy". These rifles were assembled in Finland in very deep secrecy: Our arch-enemy, Soviet Union, did never know about production of them. But when our Army got enough the assault rifles, the "Sneak Rifles" were exported to U.S. and presumably also to Canada. Nobody knows exact quantity of them. In Finland these rifles M-39, made since 1945, are sought-after collecor's items. Almost all of them were exported in the lot of ca. 25 000 rifles (Mosin-Nagants & many of the variants) to the western shore of a Pool (Atlantic Ocean). I've seen just one of them (stamped in 1968) in my neighbourhood. I measured it's headspace clearance and found it completely serviceable. That rifle is seemingly unused - like a vast majority of the "Sneak Rifles" M-39. They were never issued for military exercises, but kept "Para Bellum" (for the real war).
The most valuable collector's item is a sneak rifle with "English shotgun style" buttstock, without a semi-pistol grip of the usual rifle Model 1939. Usual pet-name of rifle M-39 is "UKKO-PEKKA", after the President of Finnish Republic, PEHR EVIND SVINHUFVUD (1861 - 1944), who was a skilled marksman until his death, and a protagonist of shooting hobbies.
1011 MMI; PT
SNEAK OR NOT?
Thanks for your explanation of "sneaks". In the US the most common explanation is that they were made in violation of a Finn-Russo non-production treaty, hence the name "sneak". To me, it is hard to believe that those late 1960s - early 1970s rifles were in violation of anything, since Finland had been making guns for years since WWII. I happen to have a 1945-dated M-39 in new condition. In your opinion, would this be considered a true "sneak" rifle since the Finn-Russo treaty was probably still in effect when it was made?
PeCeTe.
The true Sneak M-39 rifles were made actually since the "Spring of Prague" 1968, when the occupation of Soviet-Russia was menacing all the countries bordering the East-Block. The menace was realized in the Czecho-Slovakia only, but Finland was also alert and High Brass of our army knew that a sniper, even with a non-scoped (but selected) rifle is able to kill an enemy fighter with 3 to 5 shots, while an average conscript, armed with an assault rifle, needs ca. 20.000 rounds of cartridges for one sure kill. (Statistics from early years of Viet-Nam conflict. Later there were needed ca. 40.000 rounds of cartridges to kill a single Viet-Cong warrior. Snipers needed 1.33 cartridges per a kill with their scoped rifles).
Your Model-39 "Ukko-Pekka" rifle is definitely not a Sneak Rifle: It is made in early year 1945, when Finnish Army fought our Shameful War against Germans in Finnish Lapland "za Stalina; za Soyuzhkogo Soyuza" ("pro Stalin; pro Soviet Union"). This most ashameable era on the written history of Finland started in the early October 1944 and it ended in 27th April 1945. Finnish VKT was allowed to produce service firearms until the end of April 1945. Finn-Russo non-production treaty was not YET concluded in 1945. It is still a secret, but I presume that it is signed in 1947, along with Peace "Treaty" in Paris. Production of Sneak Rifles was started ca. 21 years after submission to these lousy dictated terms of "cease fire". The actual peace between Finland and Russia is not yet concluded. The peace treaty of Hamina was concluded in 1809 between Imperial Russia and Kingdom of Sweden.
1612 MMI; PT"
The no name sneaks are given up to be the crème de crème of M39 rifles, as they were built specifically as sniper rifles.
Interesting as to how they came into being to deceive the Soviets.
From Finnish gun writer P. T. Kekkonen.
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/QA17.html
"FINNISH "SNEAK M-39" RIFLES
I recently bought a Finnish Mosin Nagant M-39. It looks like it is new. It was made in 1970. That's the date on the barrel shank. Here in the U.S. it is considered a "SNEAKS" M-39. What does "SNEAK" mean? And, how could I find out more information about these late production M-39 rifles.
Thank you; Adam
Word "Sneak" is not Finnish, but these rifles are actually assembled since late 1960s until about 1972 in Finland from the huge piles of spare parts of Mosin-Nagant actions, Finnish-made stocks and the barrels made by VKT (State's Rifle Factory) and SAKO Oy during our Third Independence Struggle/ Continuation War in 1941 - 44. Many unused spare barrels were not yet finished and blackened or even stamped by the manufacturer's logo (S inside a gear or VKT), but they bear the stamp "ASEV 1". Shortened barrels of Russian Mosin-Nagant model 1891 aren't also uncommon in these rifles. Those barrels were, of course, unused, selected, and of highest available quality.
If somebody find a stamp CHATELLERAULT 1892 or REMINGTON 1917 or some Russian markings from his/her Model 1939 rifle's barrel shank along with an ASEV 1 stamp with a date between late 1960s and early 1970s, he/she is not bought a fake! Bore and chamber dimensions of M-39 are exactly similar to those of original Mosin-Nagant M-1891. Therefore the selected M-N barrels are completely serviceable in M-39 rifles, and the existence of Russian, French or American barrel in latest production batch of a Finnish military bolt-action rifle doesn't mean that the M-39 is a fake. Usually it means that the rifle is very accurate. Let's think, why they were assembled almost a decade since official adoptment of assault rifles! For use of the "second class" snipers: For the marksmen not yet qualified to get a (rare) scoped rifle, but who were more skilled shooters than average riflemen, like "Okhotniks" of Russian Red Army during their Great Patriotic War in 1941 - 45.
Almost all of "Sneak M-39s" were assembled by ASEVARIKKO 1 in a town Kuopio; nowadays KUOPION ASEVARIKKO. (Finnish word "asevarikko" means "the arms depot of Finnish Army"). The stamp ASEV 1 means just the depot (not a factory) where the rifles are assembled. Receivers, barrels and breech-bolts may all bear the different serial numbers. Parts of the bolt may also be stamped with variable numbers. They were assembled from the huge pile of spare parts, but - PLEASE NOTE! - they were assembled scrupulously: Too big or too small clearance of a headspace was not allowed. Actually, the allowances of bore, chamber and action dimensions were smaller than those of original rifles M-39 made for use of average riflemen, as these "Sneak Rifles" were made for sniping. If the barrel was chopped from an old Mosin-Nagant M-1891 barrel, it's muzzle end was somewhat too thin. The front sight of rifle M-39 was fitted on it with a thin-walled bushing. Barrels, receivers and steel furnitures of these rifles are blackened to look very beautiful.
The nick-name "Sneak(s) Rifle" is presumably coined in U.S.A., but origin of it may be Finnish "Salapyssy". These rifles were assembled in Finland in very deep secrecy: Our arch-enemy, Soviet Union, did never know about production of them. But when our Army got enough the assault rifles, the "Sneak Rifles" were exported to U.S. and presumably also to Canada. Nobody knows exact quantity of them. In Finland these rifles M-39, made since 1945, are sought-after collecor's items. Almost all of them were exported in the lot of ca. 25 000 rifles (Mosin-Nagants & many of the variants) to the western shore of a Pool (Atlantic Ocean). I've seen just one of them (stamped in 1968) in my neighbourhood. I measured it's headspace clearance and found it completely serviceable. That rifle is seemingly unused - like a vast majority of the "Sneak Rifles" M-39. They were never issued for military exercises, but kept "Para Bellum" (for the real war).
The most valuable collector's item is a sneak rifle with "English shotgun style" buttstock, without a semi-pistol grip of the usual rifle Model 1939. Usual pet-name of rifle M-39 is "UKKO-PEKKA", after the President of Finnish Republic, PEHR EVIND SVINHUFVUD (1861 - 1944), who was a skilled marksman until his death, and a protagonist of shooting hobbies.
1011 MMI; PT
SNEAK OR NOT?
Thanks for your explanation of "sneaks". In the US the most common explanation is that they were made in violation of a Finn-Russo non-production treaty, hence the name "sneak". To me, it is hard to believe that those late 1960s - early 1970s rifles were in violation of anything, since Finland had been making guns for years since WWII. I happen to have a 1945-dated M-39 in new condition. In your opinion, would this be considered a true "sneak" rifle since the Finn-Russo treaty was probably still in effect when it was made?
PeCeTe.
The true Sneak M-39 rifles were made actually since the "Spring of Prague" 1968, when the occupation of Soviet-Russia was menacing all the countries bordering the East-Block. The menace was realized in the Czecho-Slovakia only, but Finland was also alert and High Brass of our army knew that a sniper, even with a non-scoped (but selected) rifle is able to kill an enemy fighter with 3 to 5 shots, while an average conscript, armed with an assault rifle, needs ca. 20.000 rounds of cartridges for one sure kill. (Statistics from early years of Viet-Nam conflict. Later there were needed ca. 40.000 rounds of cartridges to kill a single Viet-Cong warrior. Snipers needed 1.33 cartridges per a kill with their scoped rifles).
Your Model-39 "Ukko-Pekka" rifle is definitely not a Sneak Rifle: It is made in early year 1945, when Finnish Army fought our Shameful War against Germans in Finnish Lapland "za Stalina; za Soyuzhkogo Soyuza" ("pro Stalin; pro Soviet Union"). This most ashameable era on the written history of Finland started in the early October 1944 and it ended in 27th April 1945. Finnish VKT was allowed to produce service firearms until the end of April 1945. Finn-Russo non-production treaty was not YET concluded in 1945. It is still a secret, but I presume that it is signed in 1947, along with Peace "Treaty" in Paris. Production of Sneak Rifles was started ca. 21 years after submission to these lousy dictated terms of "cease fire". The actual peace between Finland and Russia is not yet concluded. The peace treaty of Hamina was concluded in 1809 between Imperial Russia and Kingdom of Sweden.
1612 MMI; PT"