Lyman 450 crapped out

[Blammer]

HELP!

the "nut" that you screw in to hold the sizer die in place won't work.

Why they made it with FINE threads I'll never understand.

My problem is not that the "nut" is bad, it's the threading in the sizer that is stripped out.

Anyone have a suggestion to fix it?

Should I call Lyman and see what they say?

I'm out a sizer right now and no way to size/GC/lube boolits! this can't be good!

[fcvan]

Yikes, blammer! I'm not a fan of their teeny threads either so I bought several placements to keep on hand. I've been careful and the original is still good after 25 years. You say the press body is the problem? That can't be good. Kinda hard to lien up the threads if they are too far gone. The cast body from Lyman is $120 which is very spendy. I think you should hit up the Perfessor, he did a dandy rebuild as a demonstration of his machining abilities. He might have a workable suggestion. Send him a PM. Good luck!

[Pavogrande]

I don't think trying to retap the hole oversize is practical at home -- Unless you have a mill or the patience to try to re-bore and thread it on a lathe -- And make an oversize nut --
My fix would be to drill and tap the body for a set screw like the 45 sizer -- Easy enough to gring a flat on dies the don't have the set screw groove -
my tuppence

[Maven]

No easy fix for this, I'm afraid. You can search the site for information on that problem, but Lyman persists in using an odd fine thread pitch and size.

[theperfessor]

That's exactly the reason I invented the die retention nut driver for Lyman and RCBS lubers. Lyman uses a 30 TPI thread, way too fine. I wish there was an easy way to fix this once it happens but I am drawing a blank on how to do a low tech repair other than the suggestion to tap the side and revert back to the 45's die retention method.

It could be fixed if somebody had access to a milling machine and a boring head.

[oldtoolsniper]

Can someone post a picture of the area we are talking about.

[oldtoolsniper]

Never mind I just looked at mine and I see it. I have to many sizers! I can't remember how they all work...

Professor what is tool you made to prevent this?

[nhrifle]

Those little threads are my only real complaint with the 450/4500. One of the things I was told that has saved me alot of trouble over time is to remove the top punch and after installing the size die, put the nut in place and lower the ram. This will align it squarely with the sizer body and prevent cross threading.

[theperfessor]

Here is a picture of the nut in my nut driver and one showing where the nut fits on the luber. That picture shows the first version, my current nut drivers are a little shorter by about 1/4" to give more clearance and make it easier to use. It has a magnet in it to retain the nut and it fits in the press ram so the nut is lined up coaxially and square to the threaded hole in the luber body.

6120761208

[oldtoolsniper]

I am getting smarter. I went to the vendor area and read your section. I'll be in touch through there so as not to derail this thread to far off track. I now understand the problem.

How hard would it be to drill and tap the front for a set screw like the 45's have on them?

If you did that with no retention nut would a ribbon of lube come out around the top of the die?

[Cimarron Red]

I've been using one of theperfessor's nut drivers on my Lyman 450 for about a year, I'd guess. It's one of those tools that, when you use it once, you'll wonder how you did without it all those years! Thanks, Keith!

[drklynoon]

Instead of only drilling a hole for a single set screw for the die itself you could drill two holes on either side to hold the retention nut in place. I would clean the thing out and clean up what threads are left with needle files then drill and tap two holes on either side that go through to the retention nut. Use a lead pellet or a brass tipped set screw in each hole. This could minimize the lube leakage and be quicker than the old system. If it still leaks to beat the band then I would file the rest of the threads out of the body and use the last thread of the retention nut to hold an O-ring. Just some ideas, I have never attempted any of these mods so I am not sure it would work but it's an idea.

[nhrifle]

That nut driver is slick! Should have been standard equipment for the Lubrisizer.

[Blammer]

I was using something similar when installing my sizer dies, it 'slowed' the train wreck for me but didn't prevent it.

I'm thinking maybe a few set screws put in at an angle to "hold" the nut in place, but drilling the hole at an angle on an angled surface. Hmm a bit much...

[drklynoon]

I'm not sure that an angle would be necessary. You could conceivably file a flat area the circumference of the nut halfway between the base of the nut and the head. This would be used as a bearing surface for the retainer set screws and then use the bottom thread towards the base to house a small rubber oring.

[jethunter]

Well Blammer, I did the same thing in an RCBS lube-a-matic a month ago. Still haven't fixed it but i'm going to try the double set screw method.

I changed dies in that machine several hundred times and was always super careful - cleaned the male and female threads so that the nut could be started by hand for the first several threads to prevent cross threading... except this time. I was in a hurry and didn't clean the threads too well and needed to use a wrench to turn the nut after I thought is was started. Live and learn.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Well Blammer, I did the same thing in an RCBS lube-a-matic a month ago. Still haven't fixed it but i'm going to try the double set screw method.

I changed dies in that machine several hundred times and was always super careful - cleaned the male and female threads so that the nut could be started by hand for the first several threads to prevent cross threading... except this time. I was in a hurry and didn't clean the threads too well and needed to use a wrench to turn the nut after I thought is was started. Live and learn.

You might want to call RCBS, they may help you out...it's worth a call.
Jon

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If you did that with no retention nut would a ribbon of lube come out around the top of the die?

YES, it'll shoot out like crazy.
I have one lube die with a chip out of the very top (above the o-ring), it will not work well in a 45 at all. so I use it in my 450 (with good threads and retention nut installed) and it still squirts out a ribbon of lube. The NUT on the 450 is crucial to sealing the die.
Jon

[Chicken Thief]

The closest thread repair i can find is 22.5x1.5mm. 1.5mm pitch ~17tpi.

Of course a new thread-thingamajig needs to me made and the kit costs way more than a new sizer body but if 10 people chip in, then a repair can be done for $20 or so + the "holder nut". And i'm certain that a member with a CNC work can churn out 15-20 for nuts a fair price.

http://www.rivetsonline.com/thread-repair-kit-m22-1.5.html


Just a thought.

PS: The repair kit could be bought by one emeber and then sold to the next and so forth. Each selling it for $20 less than they bought it for?

[Trapaddict]

My experience with small threads is this... Always Always ALWAYS make sure the threads are absolutely clean on both the male and female surfaces to prevent cross threading. This is especially true when attaching two dissimilar metals where one is much softer than the other. In this situation, Clean all hardened lube from the nut and the bore threads. You're really not in that big of a hurry are you? Replace the sizing die and finger tighten the nut all the way down first. Never use a wrench of any kind to start the nut. Once you cross thread it once, you're screwed forever. [smilie=b: Your fingers will tell you if it is on straight. Yes, it is a very poor design but with a little patience, it does work.

Jeff

[Blammer]

reply from Lyman, was basically "tuff cookie"

[sparky45]

I set the nut on top on the sizer die I am installing and run both into the cavity as a unit and it seems to match up perfectly every time, at least has so far.

[40Super]

I have some tool steel at work, I have a plan to make my own tap that will be able to be used, lined up through the top hole, and rethread the stripped threads bigger. Since it is cast ,it should work ok, I will make new nuts for that thread. I want to be able to just send it to the person and they can tap it themselves by turning with a tap handle(preferably) or cresent wrench. Mine isn't stripped yet, so I may need a "tester" .

[MT Chambers]

Maybe someone should make/order/stock helicoil kit including a matched drill/tap...this size would be special order.