I still think...

[miner49r]

I see the pictures of everyones home cast soldiers and mine fail completely in comparison.
Will mine shoot? Hell Yes! Am I being Anal? Hell Yes!
Olde Dad would say they were functional... but I was not done until they looked good enough to sell.

It's a surface texture thing that shows it's nastiness on 80% of the bullets. It looks like surface pitting and often appears as there is some embedded debris. At one point I thought it might be oxidation in the Lyman mold cavities and lapped them with toothpaste. Still no happiness. Resulting bullets from a new Lee mold are identical.

The alloy is 50%WW/50%Pb with 3.5 lbs. Sn added. I have tried casting temps from 650* to 825* without any joy. Fluxed with bearing grease, corn cob, and saw dust. Still there.
The furnace is a Lyman 61 that I have scrubbed on several occasions to remove the dusty tan residue which keeps reoccurring.

What am I missing? What am I doing wrong?
The attachment doesn't show nearly how awful they look (kinda like Jack Palances' complection) and what looks like a void is actually what looks like something embedded in the surface.

[runfiverun]

too much tin for the alloy.
it tears from the antimony and can't reform in the lead before the boolit cools.

[miner49r]

I neglected to state that the 3.5 lbs of tin was added to 280 lbs. of alloy.

I used one of the alloy spread sheets available on this sight for my calculations. If my WW's are what is listed in the spreadsheet I should have ended up with the following for my alloy.
1.23% Sn... 1.49% Sb... 0.12% As... 97,2% Pb

I would also add that when there is a small amount of frothy material when casting into ingots from the bottom pour furnace.

[runfiverun]

frothy grey stuff is antimony.
when you see that, up the heat and do a proper carborization and fluxing.
you have to get all the carbon back out of the alloy,if you don't you will see it included in the boolits.

[badgeredd]

My guess would be you are getting a little suspended dirt in the alloy and you might not be casting fast enough. According to your percentages, it appears you are pretty much there as far as the tin/antimony percentages. Plus flux again with sawdust and a wooden stick.

Edd

[bayjoe]

How about trying puttin your mold right next to pour spout and pressure pour.

[miner49r]

Thanks for the help guys. So the phrase of the day is "when in doubt, cook it out". Is there a specific temp and duration?

Pops always pressure cast so that is how I have been doing it. I tried streaming a few times and quickly returned to pressure casting.

He once asked me if I was intersted in shooting bullseye with him. I had to turn him down because it wasn't feasible with a mortgage and a young family. I surely missed out on that.

[runfiverun]

it just needs to ride the heat to the top.
some use sawdust by the truckload and it gets trapped under the surface.
or they get oxides sticking to their pot.
i like to keep my pots full,and scrape them reall well sides and bottom and corners.
i took a very long handled spoon and pounded it flat then ground the edges semi-sharp and the bottom corner to the shape of the corner of the pot.
and the front square to scrape the bottom of the pot.

this just allows me to work everything loose and pull it up to the top.
i get my alloy temp up when i am doing this so i can do the carbon and fire thing.
then i turn my alloy down to casting temps and get my stuff ready to go.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

runfiverun,
I think you just solved one of my problems, thanks!

[David2011]

. . . when casting into ingots from the bottom pour furnace.

. . . which might explain the tan residue in the pot. Smelting in your bottom pour pot will get it pretty dirty and possibly get bits of trash in the valve and cause leaks.

David

[miner49r]

runfiverun,
I cooked it out as suggested. Fluxed with saw dust and everything seemed normal. Continued cooking while I lapped a mold and when I looked back at the furnace there was a ton of hard crusty yellowish dross.

I think now that your first comment was correct. After skimming the debris I decided to start casting as the alloy cooled down to casting temp. The seperating that you described was much worse while the alloy was super hot decreasing as it cooled. (<---did that make sense?) I am still finding some embedded debris and pitting but it is less frequent and less severe. Also slowing the rythm way down allowing the mold to cool between pours seems to help.

Thank You

[miner49r]

David,
I would never consider smelting 280 lbs through a 10 lbs furnace.

Is this tan residue a normal occurance? I had asked this in the equipment forum with no responses.

[runfiverun]

sometimes you get some crusty looking stuff from lead.
white,yellowish,brown,black.
even when returning oxides i end up with some black fluffy dirt gunk.
i could pull a lot of good sweet alloy out of the dirt,but it just isn't worth my time so i toss it all and go on.
i have got 3-4 spoonfulls of the stuff from a 40 lb pot before and wondered where it all come from and why my boolits didn't look like junk then realized i had pulled a lot of it off the top and from the sides/bottom of the pot.

[miner49r]

Here I go thinking again.
I got fed up with the temerature swings of this olde lyman pot and build a PID. Besides the pots mood swings my lead thermometer was reading almost 100* below true temperature. This tells me that I had been casting at 800* and up. (way up) Now that I have control of my temps I found some metallic element that does not mix below 750*.

This was almost 1% of my alloy. Preliminary casts in cold molds look very promising.
66147

[Buzz64]

Those high temps and 'debris' in boolits ... looks like the zinc monster is there.

[miner49r]

Summers over, work is slowing down, and I am riding my bike less... Time to fire up the lead pot.

Still grit in the bullets.
So I set a crucible on the hotplate and melted some of this annoying alloy. Flux with wax and poor some bullets directly from the crucible. To my suprise every lil' soldier came out flawless.

Long story short... no matter how well I clean Dads Lyman model 61, I still get grit in my bullets. The cast iron must be slowly deteriorating. Thought about chrome plating the pot, but it's probably cheaper and easier to just buy a Lee unit.


Happy that will finally cast keepers.
Sad that a part of my Dads memory will be retired.

Alan

[runfiverun]

all might not be lost.
this is an old pot but still a good one.
try emptying it then boiling some water in it.
then take a wire brush to the pot itself and go to town on it.
this will let you determine the condition of the pot itself you might be able to clean it better with some rust-eze stuff afterwards.
at the least you will be able to determine the condition of the pot itself, and at the best it will be super clean and useable.
I don't know if there is a coating available that would work inside the pot.

[codgerville@zianet.com]

all might not be lost.
this is an old pot but still a good one.
try emptying it then boiling some water in it.
then take a wire brush to the pot itself and go to town on it.
this will let you determine the condition of the pot itself you might be able to clean it better with some rust-eze stuff afterwards.
at the least you will be able to determine the condition of the pot itself, and at the best it will be super clean and useable.
I don't know if there is a coating available that would work inside the pot.
Good advice. I have a Saeco 24 which looks a near twin to the Lyman. It sat unused for awhile nearly full, and when I fired it up I got pretty much the same problem. Emptied it and went after it with a die grinder and wire wheel followed by abrasive flap wheel. Blew it out with compressed air and the old girl works fine. It is 36 years old.

[Dan Cash]

Muratic acid applied to the interior of the pot will clean it with out damage. Filling the pot with acid is not really practical so put a couple inches of liquid in the bottom and use a brush to bring the acid up on the sides. When done, flush with water and baking soda. Usual precautions apply, rubber gloves, eye protection mucho ventilation, apron, etc.

[miner49r]

r5r, codger, dan
I really hate the idea of replacing it. They just don't make equipment like they used to.

I have tried wire wheels and acid. The acid worked for short period but the problem returned with a vengence. Sanding, sand blasting, boring bar on the mill... are a few ideas that cross my mind.