9mm. Maybe, possibly, FINALLY? Fingers are crossed. . .

[Recluse]

9mm. Lead boolits. Accuracy. No leading.

That has been a combination that has me wanting to mix bleach and ammonia and inhale deeply while looking at pics of Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton photo-shopped to be made seen wearing string bikinis. The horror of that would have me gasping and flopping like a largemouth bass tossed on the shore.

But. . . :)

I gave it one more try.

I ordered a Lee two-banger 120TC mold with the conventional lube grooves. Added a small bit of linotype in with the WW alloy and water-dropped the boolits. Sized and lubed them that night, then let them sit for a couple of weeks before loading.

Did four test loads:

• 4.0 gr W231 w/Win SPP
• 4.2 gr W231 w/Win SPP
• 4.0 gr AA#2 w/Win SPP
• 4.3 gr AA#2 w/Win SPP

Went to the range this afternoon. The two 4.0 grain loads weren't impressive. No leading, but no real groups either with the occasional flyer.

I test all handgun loads beginning at 30' and handheld, no rests or vice--just a normal Weaver stance. That's how I shoot so might as well be how I test the loads. Been doing it this way for twenty years.

Fired thirty rounds of each and averaged a three-inch to four inch group out of my Taurus 92 and Browning Hi-Power (Belgian). Shook my head and figured me and lead in 9mm Parabellum were history.

But I still had the 4.2 and 4.3 grain loads, so I loaded up six rounds and fired the AA#2 (4.3 gr) load first.

Holy cow. 30' handheld and they were all in the x-ring. Got so excited that my hands were almost shaking as I loaded up six more and began firing. Had a flyer that was MY fault because I committed the cardinal sin and looked past the sight to see where my shots were going. Five of the six stayed in the one-inch x-ring of the bullseye. This was from the Taurus. Repeated same performance with the Browning.

Holy cow.

Loaded up the W231 (4.2) rounds and got a repeat performance from both guns. Sixty rounds in total between the two slightly higher loads. Had to keep switching targets because they were making one ragged hole.

No leading, by the way, and no feed jams, no ejection jams. No idea what the velocity is as I didn't have a chrony with me and in all honesty, I could care less what the velocity is. For the first time in decades, I've come across a lead and powder and primer combination that actually shoots very good groups.

Holy cow.

:coffee:

[nhrifle]

Sounds like the frustrations I went through with my adventures in 9mm cast loading. Tried a bunch of different variations with that cartridge, but I caused my own frustration by limiting myself to Red Dot, since it was what I had on hand. Turns out my Taurus doesn't like it. I was scrubbing lead after every session. I started looking into powders that operated at a lower pressure and still gave adequate velocity. The two I settled on are Accurate #2 and Hodgdon Clays. I really like the Clays, it burns cleaner than anything I have tried yet and I havn't had to scrub lead out of my bore. Glad you didn't give up!

[blikseme300]

Same boolit and 4.2gn HP38/W231 is exactly what all my nines like.

[P.K.]

Your AA#2 loads are what I use in my .40 S&W for a Lee 170 grainer TC, nice load.

[Raven_Darkcloud]

I have come to like the hodgdon powders. I use a lee 358-125-rf sized and lubed on top of 3.7grns of tite-group with a 60/40 wax lla lube. It runs without issue in my glock 19 and my Dads sigma and p11. The joy of getting out for missed father son times just and old fart and aging fart of a son.

[Lizard333]

What are you sizing your boolits to, and what lube are you using?

[Charlie Two Tracks]

DANG RECLUSE!!! That first part of your post created an image that probably should be outlawed! I'm glad I hadn't had breakfast yet and probably won't for awhile........... glad to see that your loads worked out.

[koger]

Good load data, I am just now getting into cast 9mm's, there are some good places to start!

[captaint]

Good job Recluse - These 9mm's can be interesting. Glad you got yours working well. Mike

[Recluse]

Your AA#2 loads are what I use in my .40 S&W for a Lee 170 grainer TC, nice load.

I'm getting ready to acquire dies and a mold for 40 S&W. The SIL has a Ruger compact 40 S&W that is one of the nicest shooting pistols in that caliber (or any other) that I have ever fired. I figured the (small) size of it would have the recoil even more exaggerated as the few times I've messed with 40 S&W it has been out of a Glock and I did not like it at all. But this Ruger. . . whoever designed this pistol got the ergonomics and physics of recoil and energy management right. AND. . . it'll make one ragged hole all day long.

My only complaint is that you really have to "slam" a loaded magazine home to get it to stay and feed, but he does it without thinking and his wife is getting there.

I'll be posting and PM-ing some of y'all in the upcoming weeks about loads and combos for this caliber.


What are you sizing your boolits to, and what lube are you using?

I size them to .357 through one of my Lyman 45s, using a Lyman sizing die and lube them with my home-brewed "red" lube. The recipe is somewhere in one of the lube stickies under "Rebel Red." It's a PITA to make but it's certainly done well for me in all high-power, high-pressure, higher-velocity applications. I use it on my stout .44 Magnum loads and all long-gun caliber high-velocity loads. Superb accuracy, no leading, very clean.

:coffee:

[Recluse]

DANG RECLUSE!!! That first part of your post created an image that probably should be outlawed! I'm glad I hadn't had breakfast yet and probably won't for awhile........... glad to see that your loads worked out.

Sorry about that Charlie. . . :) That's just how bad things had been between me and lead and 9mm.

Hmmm. On second thought, nothing could be that bad.

:coffee:

[MT Gianni]

It should not need saying but Write it down in several places, before you get to the stage of crs.

[MtGun44]

I have been constantly recommending the excellent Lee 356 120 TC conventional lube design for
long time. It is a great performer for me in many different 9mms.

Glad to hear that it is working for you, too.

Bill

[gefiltephish]

Recluse, glad to hear you've finally hit pay dirt. I'm still struggling with mine.

I must be a glutton for punishment because I recently bought an LC9 which has even worse leading than my XD9. The bore had some pretty rough machining marks, so last weekend I did some firelapping. After that and a pretty good cleaning at the range, I fired a mag of whatever 9mm I had left which was Montana Gold hp's. I've never seen such fouling before. Full length brass streaks at both leading and trailing edges of the grooves. Had a heck of a time scrubbing that out with the help of many doses of Butch's bore shine. Hmm, didn't have any noticeable fouling with WWB the previous weekend. Sheesh.

In my XD9 I've also been using the lee 356-120 conventional, which has been very accurate, but leads like crazy, tumble or conventional lube, but is much better with conventional. AC, WD, sized as large as will chamber, custom m die plug, various lubes and methods, various powders/charges etc, no joy.

That mold had been lapped a couple of years ago because the bullets were too small, which unfortunately resulted in the smallish lube grooves becoming smaller yet. Last year I had a clone with a larger lube groove (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-125C-D.png) made by Accurate Molds. It still leads in the XD. I'm going to try it out in the LC9 this weekend. The LC9 slugs at .357. My star sizer can spit 'em out at .3586, and they will chamber fine. BTW, I'm currently using CR lube.

Oddly, I have the Mihec 359-125HP that does not lead the XD's bore. I've cast some of these along with the Lee's from the same pot of alloy, same sizer and lube and they actually clean the bore rather than lead it. Unfortunately, they're not as accurate as the Lee. Go figure. Will be trying them out (cast as solids though) this weekend in the LC9 along with the AM TC's.

Sooo...Recluse, cross your fingers for me as well...puhleeeze! Though I've tried a number of different powder/charge combos, I don't think I've tried 231 yet. I'll give it a go and see what happens. NOT holding my breath.

[captaint]

Phish - Just a suggestion, but, if it were me, I would be trying some different loads with
that MP 359-125. I have that mold, like lots of us - try finding the sweet spot. Just sayin...

[gefiltephish]

Phish - Just a suggestion, but, if it were me, I would be trying some different loads with
that MP 359-125. I have that mold, like lots of us - try finding the sweet spot. Just sayin...

With the XD, I've tried WSF, Unique, Power Pistol, Blue Dot, Universal, TG...I'm probably forgetting something, from min to max charges. I had given up on 9mm for quite a while due to all the wheel spinning. Now that I have the LC9 I'll try it all over again.[smilie=b: I don't mind doing the work, but I expect some positive results at some point. As for the XD, I'm going to give it to my son, who will likely just shoot factory jacketed with it.

[Raven_Darkcloud]

Have you tried sizing to .357?

[gefiltephish]

The XD won't chamber over .358 and I've tried .356-.358. The LC9 will chamber at least .3586. I'll know more after this weekend.

Hey, I didn't intend to highjack this thread. I'll make a new post after some weekend testing.