Pedersoli 1874 sharp breach block variations????

[muzzle flash]

I have just picked up a very nice Pedersoli 1874 (apears unfired). I am new to these guns and have done some reading up on them. It is aparent that if you are going to shoot one of these guns a spare firing pin could come in handy. Well after looking at the parts diagram and my breach block something does not add up as my block has no firing pin block plate ,firing pin spring as well as the firing seems to be a permanent part of the firing pin block itself. Phoned a Pedersoli dealer and they have not herd of this. Have emailed Pedersoli but no answer. Can anyone on board shed some light on what I have and where to get a replacement firing pin/block assembley?
I have now put a couple of hundred rounds through this gun with no problems.
THANKS

[montana_charlie]

It sounds like you have one of the one-piece firing pins.
The transfer block and firing pin were all formed in a single casting.

The original Sharps rifles had them, as well as the early models of the modern Montana reproductions.
I don't believe Pedersoli ever used that style, and I wonder if one of them would even fit in a Pedersoli breechblock.

I suspect you may have a breechblock from a different brand of rifle. If so, it would not be surprising that it fits pretty well in the Pedersoli receiver.

If you could manage a few pictures, that might totally change the story.

CM

[muzzle flash]

This is the block.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/guns%20new/DSCN1110-Copy.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/guns%20new/DSCN1111_01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/guns%20new/DSCN1113.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/guns%20new/DSCN1117.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/guns%20new/DSCN1119.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/guns%20new/DSCN1120.jpg
The block appears to belong to the rifle as it has the same numbers as rest of the gun.

[NSB]

Looks like a typical Pedersoli to me. You can get parts at VTI....vtigunparts.com

[muzzle flash]

Not acording to any parts diagrams I have seen. Note no block plate, or area milled from breach block for the plate, looks like the pin is a one piece afair or pressed into firing pin block,, also note screw which holds block into breach block as well as no firing pin spring.

[oldracer]

You said you contacted Pedersoli and would suggest VTI as a contact as they are the parts supplier and have a couple of guys there that really know the parts. Make sure you have the serial # as it will help them a lot. They got me a couple of parts for my Pedersoli Tryon when most places did not know what the heck that was.......

[montana_charlie]

This is the block.
The block appears to belong to the rifle as it has the same numbers as rest of the gun.
Well, it certainly has the 'old style' one-piece firing pin ... as found on the originals and the U.S. reproductions made back in the eighties/nineties.

But, there are a number of other differences, too, and a couple of them are fairly straightforward.
For one thing, the breechblock in my Pedersoli is blued ... not color case hardened.
Secondly, it bears no numbers of any kind. As far as I know, it is not Pedersoli's habit to 'code' all of the parts of a given rifle to it's serial number.

So, what is the numbering system on your rifle? How many other parts are similarly numbered?
Where, on your rifle, does it indicate that it is a Pedersoli gun?

Send an email to Gloria (in Italy) asking her what year your rifle (serial number) was produced.
gloria@davidepedersoli.com

If it IS a Pedersoli rifle, we will all learn something new.
If it isn't, you will.



NSB,
I bet I would find it interesting to know your definition of 'typical'.


CM

[EDG]

Don't get in a tizzie.
I have a Pedersoli Cimarron Billy Dixon with the same case hardened breech block and no safety plate. This rifle does not have a lug on the lever either.
I also have Pedersoli Long Range Creedmore with the blue breech block - this one has the saftey plate on the breech block. It also has the lug on the lever.
I have never checked the firing pin designs.

When I first got my rifle I asked Dick Trenk about the variation in color between case colors and blue for the breech block.
He said Pedersoli has some rifles that were styled after the original percussion action and some that were styled on the 1874.
This I think also included the difference in the lug on the lever that some rifles have. There may be other subtle difference in the designs.
I never did ask him what the all differences were.

Muzzle Flash does your lever have the lug on it that required the little cut on the bottom rear of the fore end.

[montana_charlie]

His second picture shows there is no lug on the lever.
He might be inclined to get into a tizzie if he can never replace his firing pin.
Where do you get replacement firing pins for that Billy Dixon from Cimarron?

Having two Pedersolis, do you see any numbers on either of your breechblocks?

CM

[bigted]

just shooting in the dark here but spose that the sharps 1-piece pin from baco would fit his block?

[muzzle flash]

Numbers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/DSCN1122.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/DSCN1125-Copy.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/DSCN1123.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/DSCN1129.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/DSCN1129.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/DSCN1128.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/muz104/DSCN1130.jpg
These are the numbers that I can find. Did not remove any wood or trigger group to check for others. Am already in a tizzy over the possibility of no parts available.
Thanks.

[montana_charlie]

Well, your 'numbers' convinced me that the rifle was made by Pedersoli, and that the parts were 'coded' to (presumably) the rifle's serial number. (I'm guessing that the number on the barrel is the serial number for the gun, but an inspection of the receiver may prove otherwise.)

Apparently that practise of parts matching was dropped by Pedersoli at some point along the way as it didn't serve any justifieable purpose.
Also, I see the checkering pattern on your buttstock is one that disappeared before my rifle was made in 2001, which also dates it as a fairly early Pedersoli Sharps.

Can you see the proof marks on the receiver?
They should be visible on the two square flats on either side of the screw holding the trigger bar to the receiver.
I don't see them (in your next to last picture) so I guess they are located elswhere on a receiver that old.
If you can locate "two capital letters inside a square box" it will tell you the year the receiver was proof tested.

Like bigted said, Buffalo Arms does carry one-piece firing pins. But, the price may cause a new kind of tizzie.
They are on this page http://www.buffaloarms.com/Search.aspx?TERM=%22firing+pin%22
Your guess is as good as mine when it comes to which one would fit your gun. Maybe both of them will.

Dixie Gun Works sells the unfinished casting for ten bucks. You could probably work it into shape with files and emery paper, but it would probably need to be heat treated when you were done.

The more expensive option is to retrofit the rifle with the current style of block and associated firing pin parts.

If it were me, I would beat the bushes trying to find out if Pedersoli can supply that type of firing pin. But, I can't tell you (exactly) how to go about doing that. I would just start someplace, and see where the quest leads ...

CM

[EDG]

His second picture shows there is no lug on the lever.
He might be inclined to get into a tizzie if he can never replace his firing pin.
Where do you get replacement firing pins for that Billy Dixon from Cimarron?

Having two Pedersolis, do you see any numbers on either of your breechblocks?

CM

The Long Range Creedmoor styled rifle has the BS - 2002 date code
1. Blue breech block
2. Blocking plate behind the firing pin
3. Lug on the lever with notched fore end.
4. I did not disassemble to look at the firing pin.
5. No number on the side of the block

The Billy Dixon model has the BI - 1997 date code
1. Case colored block
2. No blocking plate
3. Two piece firing pin - The pin has a large head half of its length & a retraction spring
This firing pin is a 100% turned part made from rod stock.
Why this would ever break I don't know.
If one is made from tool steel and polished it should never break.
4. Matching numbers - Barrel, breech block, firing pin transfer block, lever , extractor
5. No lug on the lever , no notch on the fore end
6. The firing pin transfer block - At the base of where the integral pin would have been is milled with a nice finish at the exact angle to drive the head of the firing pin.

To answer the question about a spare firing pin.
I have other rifles I can shoot if this one breaks so here how I would proceed if I had the one piece type.
1. I would get a couple of the two piece types and a couple of the springs
2. Get some dental impression RTV - make a moulding of the firing pin hole
3. Compare the molding to the shape of the loose firing pins
4. Verify the new pins fit the hole in the block
5. When the firing pin finally breaks have a shop cut it off with a mill to match the current transfer bar geometry. Deburr
6. Install new pin and spring
7. Take pictures as you go and post here.

Otherwise you can buy the separate transfer block & firing pin and install as needed.
When the old one breaks save it for conversion to the 2 piece type if the replacement ever breaks.

Copied from another post

Italian proof date codes.

These are usually stamped on the barrel surrounded by a cartouche (a little oval box with rounded ends)
Year = code
1945 = 1
1946 = 2
1947 = 3
1948 = 4
1949 = 5
1950 = 6
1951 = 7
1952 = 8
1953 = 9
1954 = X
1955 = XI
1956 = XII
1957 = XIII
1958 = XIV
1959 = XV
1960 = XVI
1961 = XVII
1962 = XVIII
1963 = XIX
1964 = XX
1965 = XXI
1966 = XXII
1967 = XXIII
1968 = XXIV
1969 = XXV
1970 = XXVI
1971 = XX7
1972 = XX8
1973 = XX9
1974 = XXX
1975 = AA
1976 = AB
1977 = AC
1978 = AD
1979 = AE
1980 = AF
1981 = AH
1982 = AI
1983 = AL
1984 = AM
1985 = AN
1986 = AP
1987 = AS
1988 = AT
1989 = AU
1990 = AZ
1991 = BA
1992 = BB
1993 = BC
1994 = BD
1995 = BF
1996 = BH
1997 = BI
1998 = BL
1999 = BM
2000 = BN
2001 = BP
2002 = BS
2003 = BT
2004 = BU
2005 = BZ
2006 = CA
2007 = CB
2008 = CC
2009 = CD
2010 = CF

[muzzle flash]

your email.
You did it well contacting me directly. Unfortunately we are always late reading the hundreds of emails we received through the web site almost daily.

Our serial numbers record shows SH1468 being produced and shipped to Rucko of Canada in the 1994.
The earlier Sharps production had one piece firing pin and transfer bar together, however the current two parts can also be fit to your rifle. I am attaching the instructions.

Our Canadian importers normally carry some of our parts, however if you have difficulties finding them, I will be glad to mail them from Italy.
The set of 3 parts with handling and shipping by priority mail costs Euro 59,60 at the current exchange rate with your currency CAD 79.67

You can pay with credit card of the Visa circuit, or also by Paypall our reference denise@davidepedersoli.com

Please let me know.

Best regards,

Gloria

DAVIDE PEDERSOLI & C.
Via Artigiani, 57
I-25063 GARDONE VALTROMPIA
(BRESCIA) ITALY
ph. +39 030 8915000
fax +39 030 8911019
WWW.DAVIDE-PEDERSOLI.COM

This is the reply I recieved from Pedersoli today.

[EDG]

Muzzle Flash
What is the proof date marked on your rifle?

[muzzle flash]

I found the serial number once again on the reciever under the forearm the only other mark is what appears to be a 80 inside a square box and a couple of stamps that i can't read even with a loop that is all I could find. Pedersolis fix is just swap he pin block, pin and spring with the modern design or file the remains of original pin flush with block add a modern pin and spring and and I would be back shooting if original pin fails.

[EDG]

Depending on a guy's manual skill the old broken firing pin could be ground off with a belt sander or grinding wheel, cleaned up with a file or a stone and the new pin installed. Then spares would be relatively cheap.

You 80 might be a BC = 1993 or a BD=1994
Anyway this was an interesting thread because it answered why my rifle does not have the lug on the lever. It appears to have been an older version.

[montana_charlie]

Pedersolis fix is just swap he pin block, pin and spring with the modern design or file the remains of original pin flush with block add a modern pin and spring and and I would be back shooting if original pin fails.
That makes sense, I just suspected that it couldn't be that simple. Probably became gun shy from seeing all of the flagellation when somebody on the Shiloh site needs a new style firing pin.

I bet EDG is right in saying your proof date is 'BC' for 1993.

CM

[muzzle flash]

Bingo Guys! That is all there is to it. Kinda feel a little foolish of overthinking this issue. Guess sometimes we look to hard for a problem with the obvious staring us in the face. Looks like maybee a BD due to its manufacture in 1984.
Thanks all for the help.