Corbin gas check equipment

[Papa Bang]

Has anyone used the gas check making dies from Corbin and if so what were the results?

[Buckshot]

Has anyone used the gas check making dies from Corbin and if so what were the results?

..............I haven't but so far as making GC's, check the Special Projects forum and search Gas Checks.

...............Buckshot

[rhead]

Somebody is making a set of dies and punches that use a lyman sizing die and selling them on E Bay. I wonder if they could be adapted to work on a Lee?

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

rhead; got an item number for the e-bay sale???
Where in AR?
Nick

[rhead]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230155785184&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013

The Item number: 230155785184 seller is codamall and the opening bid is $6.95.

I am near El Dorado in the extreme south central part of the state. what part of the state is your home?

[Bret4207]

Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on that Ebay setup myself. Sounds like the guy is getting started making them for sale.

[codarnall]

Fellas around the country have been bugging me to check out this forum. Not real good at this sort of thing. Actually this is a first. I'de been selling gas check making systems on eBay for about two weeks. The systems were designed buy myself at the behest of several custom die customers. I've sold all three systems like hot cakes on eBay. $20 -$22. The gas checks are make from aluminum soda cans. The idea came from the corporate knowledge of the two buyers plus about 400+ visitors. I am waiting for constructive feedback for the some 20 odd systems out there.
1) Stand-alone. A punch and anvil for 9.3 mm gas checks.
2) Users sizer die, top punch forming mandrel and aluminum disk holder.
3) A bezel locked on top of the sizing die LYMAN RCBS with a retaining nut to center the aluminum disk, and the bullet itself used as a mandrel, with a nylon bullet bezel guide to center the bullet on the disk.
4) Not yet developed yet, but will be a combination of 2. and 3 . tha is,a guiding disk bezel a top punch forming mandrel and a longer ejection rod for the users sizers die.

Corbin gas check stuff is $400. You folks have told me that you are "cheapskates". I've tried to keep costs down by keeping machine time down. System delivered so far are .308 .366 .429 .375 (38-55). One can see the three systems as "view item" under my eBay id which is "codarnall". I am away for the next week. I plan to offer these item again with mods in the next few days while we can on eBay, ie., we're getting kicked off, us "bullet tip folks".

[Nueces]

Welcome, codarnall. I saw your GC systems on ebay and found them very interesting. Please stick around this forum and let us know how your designs develop. I, for one, would be a customer.

Mark

[Tristan]

Codarnall -

Welcome! Glad you made it here!

I am interested in the gas check making kits, in several calibers. Look forward to hearing from you again.

Tristan

[codarnall]

I tried to edit for spelling and got lost.
I was indicating the new system I was designing using a combination of two of the described methods to form accurately centered gas checks with a minimum of machine time.

[EMC45]

I've got an idea in my head (that's as far as it's gotten) to make gas checks with a punch system that utilizes 7/8-14 TPI like in a reloading press. Basically a top punch that threads into the press and a female bottom die that fits the shell holder, which will also act as a collection device. I have access to an 8 foot lathe, but no milling machine. I believe it can all be done on the lathe and maybe a little Dremmel/file work. The second part of this system is the forming die, which will center the punched disk of copper then "cup" it. It will also be a top and bottom male/female set-up. I have wondered about the use of Aluminum for the checks though. I believe when you get into the thickness required for checks in copper you have to buy a full sheet. $$$$$$$$$ I'm trying to keep it cheap. Any input from the more experienced crew here?:castmine:

[codarnall]

I've got an idea in my head (that's as far as it's gotten) to make gas checks with a punch system that utilizes 7/8-14 TPI like in a reloading press. Basically a top punch that threads into the press and a female bottom die that fits the shell holder, which will also act as a collection device. I have access to an 8 foot lathe, but no milling machine. I believe it can all be done on the lathe and maybe a little Dremmel/file work. The second part of this system is the forming die, which will center the punched disk of copper then "cup" it. It will also be a top and bottom male/female set-up. I have wondered about the use of Aluminum for the checks though. I believe when you get into the thickness required for checks in copper you have to but a full sheet. $$$$$$$$$ I'm trying to keep it cheap. Any input from the more experienced crew here?:castmine:

I have thought about this business night and day for about 3 weeks. The loading die is not that bad of a concept except you must consider the time and material. Too, the sizing or seating die has a long stem which is threaded and wobbles. Alignment problems galore. The arm motion, might as well be 50 BMG for the effort that's used.

So firstly, I developed a small anvil which holds the aluminum, brass or copper disk. The mandrel and forming punch is seated in the same recess for alignment and registration. A little whack with a small mallet has the gas check in one tap. The trick for those who want to try it is to taper the throat to the cylinder section. The punch travel must be short enough to form the check without tearing in the process. This was not so obvious when I first machined the anvil. Twelve hours lost. Alignment alignment etc. Two layers are possible to solve the NEI 35 problem. This can be done while watching TV. The old lady didn't like it on the dining room table.

Secondly, my recent custom dies have the GS disk recessed into the top of the die. Alignment problems rely on accuracy of the press. The forming mandrel is a snug fit into the punch hole of the press. The mandrel is machined to the GS diameter. A machined washer diameter .717 OD and there required disk ID is placed on top of the die but under the retaining nut for 450 etc, LAM. This washer is thick enough to center the GS disk unformed and only lose a turn on the nut. The mandrel forms the GS with a 1/2" movement of the punch. GC is then ejected with a longer ram in the die.

Where the press does not have a retaining nut, a nylon fixture is on the mandrel, a groove for a retaining device keeps the fixture on the mandrel, and a spring on the mandrel keeps the fixture down while holding the unformed disk. The down stroke of mandrel / fixture pushes the centered disk in the die and forms the GC. This is another 1/2 hour of a machine time.

Future systems will use the washer, mandrel, longer rod for ejection combination.

[Bret4207]

Please keepus advised n the statys of this system. I know I'd be interested on trying it. Welcome to the family too! And don't worry abot thee spelking . we kan figur oot whut yo meen.

[scrapcan]

Now we are cooking. Keep us up to date on your progress.

[45nut]

Welcome to :cbpour:
Wonderful to have you aboard, somehow I missed this thread til just now. Any idea whether you can adapt your system for the SAECO machines?

[BorderBrewer]

I ordered a .453 lube sizer die from codarnall and it is first rate. His gas check system seems like a great idea, especially considering how proud Hornady is of their gas checks.
BorderBrewer

[The Dust Collector]

I was just thinking of this idea of making gas checks from beverage cans. I own a TAP-O-CAP that makes very nicely formed percussion caps for black powder caplock firearms. The aluminum from these cans is very thin, much thinner than any of my store bought checks. It's just a thought, but wouldn't it be to an advantage to use the rolls of aluminum that is used for roofing applications ? This aluminum is available from Home Depot and the like. It is sold in various widths and lenghts in roll form, painted or plain. I have a roll of the plain stuff 6 inches wide by 25 feet long. I miked it at .009". The Mountain Dew can that I just cut open miked at .004". It's about a year since I purchased it, but has a $6.49 price tag on it yet. To my way of thinking it would be a better material to use. I have no idea of how many thousand checks would be in a roll, but $6.49 it would be a lot less of a hassle than messing with the pop cans. F.W.I.W.
DUST

[codarnall]

Star presses use a bullet nose in first approach, and is great for flat nose bullets having them fall out and alignment issues moot. I use my Lyman #45 this way for wadcutters.
Saeco, and Lee presses are new arenas for me. I do not know the punch stem dimension too say whether or not a GS system tested with the #45 and #450 will work on the Lee or Saeco. I feel that the simple system for the RCBS LAM, and the Lyman 450 may not work on the Lee/Saeco. Without a centering device like is used on the #45 presently, that is, a holding fixture I can't figure out how to register the disk cut-out on the die face.

Before the washer concept:

The fixture has a nose of .610 or .587 for the Lyman and RCBS respectfully to get past the nut retainer to the die face. When using an alignment washer topping the die the fixture is not necessary. The unformed disk is held by the fixture by virtue of a "press fit" in the fixture nose for the # 45. With this description the reader should be able to determine which setup would work with what. The remaining unknown is the top punch stem diameter for the Saeco or Lee. Coded messages have been smuggled past the eBay police and twice I've had auctions canceled for not strictly following their rules, which are too many, like using words such as, "type" and "like" or "gunbroker", heaven help you if you direct someone to midwayusa.com. Of real curiosity is if the eBay police really had the courtesy to notify the bidders as they indicated. Some indicated they were blindsided.

[OeldeWolf]

I am glad to hear of a possible alternative to buying gas checks. I also am always worried about what happens when sources of supply dry up, or my pocketbook shrinks too far.

What is this about something called tap-a-cap for making percussion caps? Where can I find out about this device?

[codarnall]

BTW thanks for the welcomes. I posted a picture of the mandrel and fixtures on the eBay site. I could not figure out how to compress them to load here. A new picture had to be reclaimed as it was e-mailed to some mentors. I just through up my hands and started a new auction because I'm going to make them this way unless someone has a mod that should be included. Pictures are worth a lot. I finished some of the part here in NM, I never though I'de me making washers for sale.
Charlie

[Hud]

OeldeWolf

Midsouth South Shooter has the Tap-o-Cap ($20.96) and an article can be found on Beartooth Bullets fourm about the device. Hope this helps.

Hud

[EMC45]

Tapocap is a good idea. They need to make a version for GCs.

[PatMarlin]

BTW thanks for the welcomes. I posted a picture of the mandrel and fixtures on the eBay site. I could not figure out how to compress them to load here. A new picture had to be reclaimed as it was e-mailed to some mentors. I just through up my hands and started a new auction because I'm going to make them this way unless someone has a mod that should be included. Pictures are worth a lot. I finished some of the part here in NM, I never though I'de me making washers for sale.
Charlie

Charlie- why not offer your tool as a group buy here on Cast Boolits starting with say... 45 cal?.. :mrgreen:

That way you could gear up for a sizable order and make more money than onesee twosee's orders.. :drinks:

[Nueces]

PatMarlin, ya look good in that thinkin' cap...

Mark

[tom barthel]

I wouldn't mind being able to make my own gas checks. I do have some questions. Would the use of aluminum require special bore cleaning techniques? I've heard aluminum cleaning rods are bad. I've not noticed any problems using them. I read a lot about copper solvents. Will I need some sort of aluminum solvent? Overall, I think it's a great idea.
Welcome to the forum. There seems to be a lot of skilled, professional machinists here. More ideas are welcome. I've thought of something like this but, I don't have the skill. I'm also a procrastinator, when I find the time.

[45nut]

Pat's idea has a lot of merit.

[codarnall]

45cal the issues: New or old presses? Hole punch needs to be about .540.

Holding fixture, on old, washer on new. Fixture too frail for RCBS , Lyman 450?

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/freechec.htm Is a link to lots of answers.

I just lost an hours worth of typing. My fault I'm sure.

[45nut]

I just lost an hours worth of typing. My fault I'm sure

That happens to me too, ticks me off too. Sorry.

[codarnall]

I wouldn't mind being able to make my own gas checks. I do have some questions. Would the use of aluminum require special bore cleaning techniques? I've heard aluminum cleaning rods are bad. I've not noticed any problems using them. I read a lot about copper solvents. Will I need some sort of aluminum solvent? Overall, I think it's a great idea.
Welcome to the forum. There seems to be a lot of skilled, professional machinists here. More ideas are welcome. I've thought of something like this but, I don't have the skill. I'm also a procrastinator, when I find the time.

Scrubbing, lead, and aluminum fouling cannot be removed chemically safely. Copper forms complex ions which dissolve in ammonia.

[garandsrus]

Guys,

Isn't aluminum abrasive? Some sandpaper is made from Aluminum Oxide.

I know that my shotgun has a fair number of scratches from bouncing around in an aluminum boat while duck hunting.

I would be interested in making checks from copper but I think I'll pass on aluminum...

John

[codarnall]

See links below an make up your own mind.



Guys,

Isn't aluminum abrasive? Some sandpaper is made from Aluminum Oxide.

I know that my shotgun has a fair number of scratches from bouncing around in an aluminum boat while duck hunting.

I would be interested in making checks from copper but I think I'll pass on aluminum...

John

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrasive#Choice_of_abrasive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corundum
http://www.alibaba.com/manufacturers/1428/Abrasives.html

[45nut]

what are the odd's you can come up with a design for a std 7/8-14 press? it would open up a new frontier in sales opportunities.

[PatMarlin]

Beauty of the group buy here is you have a captive market. Group buys are taylored to specs so you make a run for example the RCBS guys, then one for the #45's then the 450's etc. Then run the calibers.

You don't have to come up with one fit's all. From a manufacturing standpoint it's a dream come true.. :Fire: :mrgreen:

[tom barthel]

I'll probably get one from you when you finish your developmental work. Will your system also work on thin mild steel sheets? Cheap works well for me. The soft drink cans are coated with some sort of sealer. Does this pose any problems? Can the thickness be a problem switching from pop cans to rolled aluminum strips? I do like to see someone ask why not when told something can't be done. I've tried a lot of things just to see for myself. Please keep us posted on your developments.

[codarnall]

What I said to the world and dfwmacguru was that FDA would not let us drink out of unprotected containers, they're coated to protect us from the very strong acids namely carbonic acid. It is strong too! The immediate oxides of aluminum are so tiny should they form, and now were talking angstroms in size, it would be akin to removing paint from you house with 1500 grit paper. The aluminum ramrod picks up dirt, lots and lots of iron compounds, just rub a magnet in the dirt, which hide in the scratches of the rod and scrub away the muzzle. Soda cans are just plentiful. I took old .357 brass annealed it and did the same thing to make GC's just because I could.

Points about runs of one caliber etc are good ones but I've never had more that two order together for customs stuff. My problem is I get kicked off while typing... guessing what the shooters need and, too, remembering I was told early on that casters are cheapskates which means keep prices low!

[45nut]

regarding getting booted while typing,, I have on occasion written my reply in notepad and then copied and pasted it into a reply window. Prevents the time out while replying.

[codarnall]

Shiloh, 458 slugs, must weight a quarter pound each. They're unchecked and gorgeous so I need help understanding the 45 GC issue. My Buddy says he doesn't need them and he's getting 2" groups at 200 yards and a bruise. I've have never shot a GC out of a 45-xx. I am down around 1800 fps. You know 28 gr 4198 and cotton balls for filler. As for "group buys", I'm sure it is what it sounds like but I know nothing about them.
Charlie

[Mohillbilly]

I shore do like the idea of make'n my own checks,and the flash'n idea from the build'n supply stores sound like a winner also.Not only could it be possible for make'n standard size checks but with the tool'n checks could be made to fit non check molds. Just think, no more debate whether such and such a GB mold would be ran with/without gascheck shanks.Of course I'd have to have one in almost every size(.22 thru .510).As far as presses, I'd think the big new cast iron Lee press would be nearly ideal,cheap, readly availble, strong, and 7/8 and 1 1/4 size(lotsa room) would give flexablilty to any die size to make checks....Price well that depends, 20 to 50 bucks if it is a good one and does the job.....I don't know how long it would take to wear one out,but it would shorley git a work out around these parts(Cast Boolits).As far as copper vs aluminum well thats for me to decide,and sheet copper could be had if I were to look in the right places.I do know right off the top of my head that very thin copper can be had to do glazen for hobby stain glass......probably ain't cheep but might be doable..... I'd do aluminum first, and probably stay with that.....

[PatMarlin]

Shiloh, 458 slugs, must weight a quarter pound each. They're unchecked and gorgeous so I need help understanding the 45 GC issue. My Buddy says he doesn't need them and he's getting 2" groups at 200 yards and a bruise. I've have never shot a GC out of a 45-xx. I am down around 1800 fps. You know 28 gr 4198 and cotton balls for filler. As for "group buys", I'm sure it is what it sounds like but I know nothing about them.
Charlie


45 Colt, 454 Casull, 45-70, etc., etc.

[codarnall]

I have a hole punch at .530 used for and earlier experiment. I have a die .466. I used a top punch 7/16, a blank. It did form a reasonably good GC with the disk center by eye with nothing to hold it in fixed. It was effortless. Naturally the GC was .466. The .530 was created for the 45 cal purpose. At that time I deemed the holding fixture to frail with a wall thickness of only .030 for RCBS and .040 for the Lyman 450 family.
Regards,
Charlie:drinks: :drinks:

[codarnall]

Twenty trips to and from the lathe and I finally came up with a reasonable yield on good looking 458 checks. I was actually doing better centering by hand than with a helping device, a bezel, on my Lyman 45. Clearly the bezel removes the error on a 450 or RCBS, the checks went from skew to uniform in about two hours of fiddling with them. For those who want to try this the bottom is line the hole punch needs to be .535- .538". The punch forming mandrel needs to be crisp without shearing edges at .436". Round edges greater than 1/64 radius seem to induce slipping sideways I have a center punch point on the mandrel to keep from skidding, not too sure of its overall importance.

[PatMarlin]

Sounds like you're having fun, but Doc... plain english please. :mrgreen:

Does it work with the lyman 45 press?

[codarnall]

Everything is tested on a Lyman #45. In plain english a fixture is needed to hold the .535 disk centered on the sizing die face. That is , on the #45 you can push the disk around by hand because it so big and center it visually. But a fixture takes the guess work out of it. The fixture is fully 1/2 hour of machine time, having make twenty or so for the #45, just not for the 45 calibers family. I don't now how to post picture of it here.:confused:

[Bad Water Bill]

What kind of money would we be spending for a setup for my 22 hornet,221 fireball,222,223 22-250 so a well seasoned (old) citizen can keep shooting for a few more years, till linatype goes for 20.00 per pound. BWB :castmine:

[codarnall]

Just under 20 bucks delivered for a RCBS Or Lyman 450 family. That is while the hole punches last, I've been passing on the savings of Sun Yat Sin's surplus/clearance items. After they are gone,.... it's buyer off to ACE hardware for a General 5/16 punch at about 7 bucks as opposed to mine at about 3. I emptied their shelves and now they eight times as much.
You asked!
Charlie

[Taylor]

OeldeWolf----Midsouth Shooters here in Tennessee has them,about 20 bucks. I would like to have one also,but roll caps are hard to find. The maker says to use caps made in the US and not china. No luck finding them here. Let me know if you find any.

[PatMarlin]

This is an old note of mine. Don't know if the links are good...


http://hometown.aol.com/wildwesttoys/page3.html

http://hometown.aol.com/wildwesttoys/index.html

CAPS MUST BE SHIPPED UPS -- ( UPS SHIPPING WILL BE A BIT HIGHER THEN USPS ) -- STRIP CAPS 78 SHOTS $1.29 PER CARD , AMERICAN WEST PAPER ROLL CAPS 1000 SHOTS $2.29 PER CARD , AMERICAN WEST PAPER ROLL CAPS 6 BOXES 1500 SHOTS $3.29 PER CARD , COWBOYS 4 PACK 1000 SHOTS PAPER ROLL CAPS $2.29 PER CARD , WILD WEST PAPER ROLL CAPS 1000 SHOTS $1.59 PER CARD ( MADE IN GERMANY POP GREAT IN SINGLE SHOT GUNS DONT POP AS GOOD IN ROLL CAP GUNS AS AMERICAN WEST or COWBOYS ) AMERICN WEST 12 SHOT PLASTIC RING CAPS 144 SHOTS $1.99 PER CARD
Attached Thumbnails

[Spector]

I have been saving pennies from 1962 through 1981 because I believe I read they have the same alloy makeup as Sierra bullet jackets. How difficult would it be to fabricate a roller sustem to to reduce the thickness of these cleaned pennies to the desired thickness of gas checks?

I've seen the system at Bass Pro Shops that irons out pennies and embosses different logos into them. Seems to me that a penny could be rolled out and get 2 to three 45 cal gas checks from each one.

Obviously though aluminum cans are much cheaper and easier to process if you have a mold that casts a proper diameter base for attaching the gas checks. Perhaps Lee molds could be easily modified to fit these thinner aluminum gas checks for us cheapies. New member.........Mike

[Bret4207]

Last I knew destroying any form of US currency, (folding, spindling, mutilating) was still illegal. Of course the chances of having the G-men tracking you down over a few pennies is pretty slim......

[Scrounger]

I remember back in the days when there were lots of trains, people put pennies on the tracks for trains to run over and squish. Didn't work too well...

[MT Gianni]

When you figger it out, use Canadian pennies for checks. Let the Canadians use ours. Gianni

[725]

Is there a site or some such to checkout these Corbin devices? Very interested in a system that would allow me to make my own.

[Scrounger]

Is there a site or some such to checkout these Corbin devices? Very interested in a system that would allow me to make my own.

http://www.corbins.com/product.htm

[MT Chambers]

Sorry MT...no go on the Canadian pennies, they are worth more then U.S. ones!!

[Bad Water Bill]

Bret It is illeagol to deface U. S currency to INCREASE its value. The native americans for many years used all of our SILVER coins to make their jewelry. Checked into this maaany years ago. BWB :castmine:

[zuke]

Our pennie's are copper plated metal of some kind.

[Lloyd Smale]

Forgive me if this has been covered but ive got a few questions. First by reading this i take it a guy about needs a lyman sizer and that the star wont work. Also the 44 setup is the one that intersts me and i would like to know how well these checks stay on the base of the bullet after sizing.

[JohnH]

... guessing what the shooters need and, too, remembering I was told early on that casters are cheapskates which means keep prices low!


Forget about casters being cheapskates, while we do search for the great "something for nothing deal", to pay good money for a cheaply made product just chaps my hide. There are several places here you can read about the issues folks have with Lee products. Yeah they'll get ya started, but to then have to pay again for an upgrade in quality just plain sucks. So for my money, give me a quality tool at $50-$75 that will work till I croak than a cheapy at $20 that I have to buy 10 of to get any service from.

Look at it this way, currently gas checks are running between $22.00 and $38 dollars a thousand. What is a tool that will punch out 50,000 to 100,000 checks really worth???? Add in the fact that you are talking about using an existing lubsizer, one that we will also be using to run our boolits through, at what point does the extra wear on the sizer tool become a factor in the cost of this as well??? Wouldn't surprise me a bit to find that an honest figure for your tool is more like $40 than $20. (At least) Remember, I want to see you make enough money at this that you stay in business, and become willing to run odd ball stuff like 25 cal, 7mm, 270, 6mm as well the more common 30, 35,44, 45.

I second the idea of desiging a set of tooling to operate on a 4500 (That should work on the RCBS tool as well), in 30,35,44, 45; do group buys to get your feet wet and begin to see some money in your pocket. Don't forget that we are not talking about 1 time deals here, as new casters come on line there is a ready new market and more are are getting into this everyday. As well, once we hit the ranges with shooting your product, everyone we know will be getting your stuff too. So make us a good tool, one you and we will be proud of.

As well, think of this, good iron molds from Lyman, RCBS, Seaco will run between $55 and $70. Custom molds can be more than that. I would expect to pay at least that much for a good gas check making tool. That puts us in the $140 range for a mold and checks. That money won't buy more than 700 jacketed bullets, and won't buy more than 700 gas checks. $70 for a tool that will allow me to make checks at will and offers the possibility of making 50,000+ is a bargain anyway you look at it.

Forget cheap, make good.

[Phil]

I'd tend to agree with JohnH here on the longevity. I'd rather put out a few more bucks and have something I could use long time (that being relative as I'm 65 and my health sucks big time).

I'd be interested in a couple of kits for different rifle calibers, at least .30 caliber and 7mm, maybe some others, but need to know more about product. I understand how you are doing it, and the reason for making the kit to work in the Lyman 450 and RCBS, but the resulting gas check seems to be more for checking plain base bullets. I measured a couple of Hornady gas checks and they seem to be about .021" in thickness. The .004" aluminum check would not work on the current crop of gas check molds. I do have some plain base bullets that would seem to be ideal for this application.

Please keep us informed on this as I find it of great interest and think you could be setting on a gold mine, both for the cast boolit shooter and yourself.

Cheers,

Phil

[Scrounger]

Phil, have you checked out Corbin's web page on making gas checks? http://www.corbins.com/gascheck.htm And someone mentioned here that sheets of brass or aluminum can be purchased from manufacturers. So it is possible to make real gas checks. Jump in and get your feet wet.
http://www.corbins.com/gascheck.htm

[PatMarlin]

Used to be able to buy copper in sheets of varied thicknesses at any electronic supply house. We used to us it for shielding, and all kinds of stuff.

That was many moons ago.. :Fire: