Lyman or RCBS and the alloy used

[happyhunter]

I am new to casting. I am looking for a 230 grain 45 round nose for my 1911. I am trying to decide between these two manufacturers. I have heard Lymans cast undersize. But I have also heard that depends on the alloy you are using. I do all casting so far with wheel weights. I do not know about alloys. Do the RCBS molds cast bigger than Lyman with wheel weights?

How hard is it to make other alloys? Should I switch to the "proper" alloy and just what is that? The scrap dealer I was at to buy the wheel weights only had wheel weights and scrap lead like used to cover telephone wires. He did not have any of the type setting kind of lead. Maybe he may have that next time I go there. I also do not want to make this more complicated than it needs to be. I like nice simple wheel weights.

I would like to order a mold pretty soon so I can cast before it get hot this summer.

Confused,
HH

['74 sharps]

I have both and really don't pay much attention to size as I cast very soft mix for my bp pistols and rifles, as well as my magnum revolvers. I do like the Lyman molds for the setscrew on the sprue plate screw to prevent it from loosening.

[rintinglen]

If I am buying a two cavity mold, I buy RCBS.
They are the best mass-produced molds. I have two that I got back in the 70's that are still going strong. And while I have a great many Lyman molds, they reportedly have more problems casting small than RCBS does. I have not personally found this to be the case, but many people report having problems with boolits being too small when cast from Lyman molds of recent manufacture. I have bought 6 or 7 Lyman molds since 2008 and none have cast undersize. One, a 429-667 does cast barely .429, but all of the others cast at least .001 over stated diameter. The 311-008 that I have casts just under.314. If RCBS makes what you want, you'll be happy with it. And RCBS stands behind their stuff. If you aren't happy, they'll make you happy.

[hermans]

+1 on The RCBS 230gr RN mold. I have two, and have been using them for a few years now. The shape is great, and the molds cast easy and produces match quality boolits.

[Larry Gibson]

I am new to casting. I am looking for a 230 grain 45 round nose for my 1911. I am trying to decide between these two manufacturers. I have heard Lymans cast undersize. But I have also heard that depends on the alloy you are using. I do all casting so far with wheel weights. I do not know about alloys. Do the RCBS molds cast bigger than Lyman with wheel weights? .............HH

Lyman and RCBS design their moulds around a ternary alloy "harder" than WWs (assuming you mean COWWs?) thus the bullets cast of COWWs will generally come out smaller in diameter. COWW alloy is not consistent through out the country and even in the same region as it depends on the maker and how many of your COWWs were "reprocessed". Thus the % of tin in relation to the antimony is often quite low. Simply add 2% tin to your COWWs and you will have a very good alloy that will cast out at the moulds nominal diameter or larger...... IF you are also casting correctly which is not difficult to do either.

You probably "heard" that the earth is flat and the moon landings were staged in a Hollywood sound stage also......and NO, RCBS moulds do not generally cast larger than Lyman's.....my experience is they generally cast .001 - .002 smaller......not always but generally.

Larry Gibson

[happyhunter]

What does COWW mean? I have been water quenching my wheel weights after casting them. How does this abreviation thing work?

Thanks,
HH

[runfiverun]

clip on ww's
as opposed to stick on ww's.

[wantoutofca]

I have the lyman 4 banger and it used to cast .002 under until I lapped it. No experience with RCBS molds.

[gwpercle]

happyhunter,
I'm going to admit doing somthing the "experts" frown on. I started casting and reloading in th late 60's, had access to unlimited free wheel weights so thats what I used for rifle , revolver and semi-auto boolits. Have allways meant to add the 2% tin and mix up special alloys for each applicatin but I like to keep things simple and never did. I have a batch of ignots 50-50 WW's and some range lead for 38 wadcutters but straight WW's are just as accurate. My first mould was a 45 acp RN and WW's worked just fine. Never did any water hardening or tempering, air cooled will work. You can keep things simple, I think a lot of people just like technical stuff.
As far as sizing of cast boolits , get a lubricator/sizer and size them to desired dia. Then you don't have to worry about "as cast " make them to fit the barrel dia. I have 355 , .356 , .357 , and .358 sizing dies for 9mm /38 cal.applications. 451, .452, .453 , .454 for 45 cal applications. solves all those size of boolit prolems.
gary

[drklynoon]

I have a little experience with RCBS molds but a fair amount with Lyman. The thing to remember is that Lyman makes their molds with #2 alloy as their standard. If you do not know what that is it is covered in the Lyman cast bullet manual how to make it. The point is it is a tinned alloy. The tin helps break surface tension and makes the boolit a little bigger. This is why Lyman has got a rep for undersized boolits. If your scrap guy has some tin just add a little to your mix and you'll have the boolit size you are after. I would also mention that without slugging your barrel you don't know what size boolit you need. A straight COWW mix may produce a boolit closer to what you need than a tinned mix. It can get complicated but I would suggest buying whichever one you like. I would also suggest looking into NOE molds as they are lighter and come with a top punch. In this arrangement you can get more holes for your money than you can with Lyman or RCBS.

[tomme boy]

I had a 45 255 RNFP mold from RCBS. It casted at 0.451" with Lino. So, don't say that the molds are not the problem. If it was not made undersize, why did they ship it back to me with the drive bands being recut. It casted at 0.4545 when I got it back from them. I never made mention to the alloy I was using. I casted with the lino to just check to make sure it was not the alloy. My main alloy for the colt at the time was 3-1 range lead to ww + 1% tin.

[Larry Gibson]

tomme boy

3-1 range lead to ww + 1% tin

Too much antimony (depends on the actual alloy of the "range lead" especially if a lot of jacketed or hard cast commercial bullets were in it) and not enough tin.

You also didn't send that RCBS mould to me for testing. It could have been the undersize mould I've been chasing but we won't know.

Larry Gibson

[drklynoon]

tomme, I apologize if I offended you. There are exceptions to any rule and as cherries are reused there is a possibility of getting an undersized mold. My understanding of the mold making process indicates that an undersized mold is a possibility, just as receiving any under-performing commercial product. If one were to shy away from commercially made products in order to minimize the chances of receiving a product that is on the edge of manufacturing tolerances, I would recommend buying custom molds from Accurate, Mihec, or NOE. As the poster was asking about Lyman or RCBS, I felt it only necessary to allude to these other possibilities while attempting to answer his question. There is value in your assessment of RCBS molds as far as it is understood as a manufactures defect or tolerances. Thank You for pointing out the error in my statement.
Nathan

[tomme boy]

Larry, I casted with pure lino to check the size. It casted at 0.451" with the lino. It came back casting at 0.4545" with my main alloy. I never checked it with lino as it was casting where it was supposed to be. I was sizing at 0.454" so all was good.

You could see where they re-cut the bands. And did not do the best job at it either. Each band had a grove in it. They worked fine, so I did not mind it.

The comments above were not meant to a single person. It was meant for everyone.

[happyhunter]

Thanks for the info! I am ordering a Lyman 4 cavity. I already have the handles for it so that settles it. I am going to look for some tin to add to the wheel weights. I will also be slugging the barrels of all my handguns in the next few weeks. Time to start a notebook of all these measurements.

I also have a mold from MiHec for my 357. I just need a 45 mold now.

HH

[Larry Gibson]

The comments above were not meant to a single person. It was meant for everyone.

Afirmative tommeboy, just all part of the "conversation".

Larry Gibson

[41mag]

Another option for you might be this one,
http://noebulletmolds.com/orders/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=268

This would allow you to pour not only the RN but some HP's as well. If your using WW's for your RN's, you would simply need to cut it around 50/50 with some CO's or pure lead for your HP.

Just another idea....