Playing around with Hollow Points

[TCTex]

I have been buying bullet molds for the last couple of years. The last one came in last week from a group buy that was started over 6 months ago. (You guessed it, I payed for it 6 months ago as well... LOL) Been doing a little playing around and goofing off and here are a few results.


HiMec 475 Cal 385gr HP.
http://www.handgunhunt.com/photopost/data/545/image30.jpg

Left To Right:
1) Same 475 as above.
2) 44 Cal 265gr Ranch Dog Mold design-NOE copy with HP's. The only Gas Check in the bunch.
3)"A" Keith 44 Cal 245gr. Another NOE mold RG4 Hollow Point Mold.
4) 45cal 235gr for my 45 ACP

The best thing about the HP molds I bought is that I can also change the pins out and cast standard bullets. Truly they are multipurpose molds.

http://www.handgunhunt.com/photopost/data/500/image32.jpg

[fivegunner]

That`s a nice looking HP on the 475!!

[Lloyd Smale]

ive fooled a bunch with them. Shot game did penetration testing ect on a bunch of them. I came to one conclusion. the big gapping hps arent for me. They tend to fracture or come apart to easily not matter what alloy you use. I now order them with just the small pins and test enough to find out what alloy and speed gives me the best combination of expansion, penetration and weight retension. Also ive had more trouble finding the accuracy sweetspot with the larger hollow point cavity bullets. Seems like the bigger the cavity the harder ive had to cast them to get accuracy and that kind of defeats the purpose unless your varmit hunting with them wand want the to blow apart.

[TCTex]

Lloyd, your observations are spot on! HP's take special care and observation to the allow mixture to insure success. I did a BUNCH of reading and research on Lyman's 44 Mag Devastator and it was more than worth my time.


The 475 has already proven itself. There are a couple of members on this forum that have taken Buffalo, elk, and even moose with that bullet. The 45 Cal is for the 45 ACP and still in the experimental stages. The air cooled WW's are looking very promising so far. I am sending batches of the 44 bullets off to two different individuals for testing and feedback. That is in addition to the tests I will be conducting. In short, time will tell.


One of the authors for the Devastator did state that the hp did lose mass in one game animal that was harvested as a direct result of the HP. However, he did also note that the bullet had enough mass to obtain full penetration and that the fragmented bullet did massive damage to the deer. With that in mind, I used the large pins on the two 44’s. If they don’t perform like I want them to I will switch to the smaller HP pins.


Duane

[1Shirt]

The big wide HP's are impressive looking when loaded, but must agree with Lloyd.
1Shirt!

[44man]

I agree with Lloyd too. No need for a hollow point with the .44 or .475 unless for blowing up things or varmints. I would not use them for deer and darn sure never for a large animal.

[45 2.1]

Hollow points work fine.... especially in the smaller weaker powered rounds. They are for those easily killed deer and varmints in the 38 Spl, 357 Mag, 38-40, 40 S&W, 10mm, 41 Mag, 44 Spl, 45 ACP, 45 Colt and like cartridges that really don't meet the power requirements of state regs. Of course, if you shoot cannons at deer or larger game and bust them in the shoulder, then they are not needed.

[TCTex]

You are 100% right on.


You have to consider intended use/application, metallurgy, and temperament with any bullet application. Cast or jacketed.


It would help if y'all shared what hardness and allow mixes you tried.


Duane

[TCTex]

Just throwing it out there again. That 475 bullet has taken a buff, elk, an moose by users on this forum.

[Shuz]

I use an alloy of 1/2 clip-on ww's and 1/2 pure lead with my various .44 cal hollow points. The hardness works out to be Saeco 6(Bhn 9) and so far has performed well in my .44 mags in the 1050 to 1100 fps area in both phone books and Whitetail deer. My .44 Devastator mould has been modified to be a plain base. It does not lead up my guns at this hardness as long as I use either 2400 or WC 820. When I use Green Dot, I get a little minor leading. I easily remove that with a few rounds of gas checked boolits.

[45 2.1]

It would help if y'all shared what hardness and allow mixes you tried.

Basic HP alloy is 50% COWW and 50% dead soft lead (or the old standby of 30:1 lead/tin). You can vary the percentages up and down to get closer to what you want. The lower the antimony %, the longer it takes to age harden. That works fine for all the low powered rounds. If you want higher speed and Magnum level HPs, then water drop that alloy straight from the mold. It also works fine for rifle boolits at 2400 fps....... pressure level of a bout 38K and less. Buffer extends pressure level somewhat. DO NOT have a balanced % of tin and antimony (equal amounts usually kill age hardening... or so i'm given to understand) if you do this.... keep the tin content much lower in %.......

[Lloyd Smale]

youve probably at one time or another read the two buffalo experience i had with cast hps. First was a 900 lb cow that i shot with a 44mag using lyman devestators. I didnt intend on shooting anything that big that day or would have had a differnt gun or at least a differnt bullet loaded but it was what it was. that buffalo was shot right behind the shoulder with my 4 5/8s blackhawk. Buffalo took two steps and folded. Probably the quickest kill ive seen on a buffalo. When gutted we found pieces of lead where it lost its nose. It did alot of internal damage and then the shank of the bullet did exit the other side. Would i call it a failure. Yes and no. Yup i ate buffalo and yup the bullet existed but i wouldnt want to rely on it doing the same next time.

the second was an 1100 lb buffalo i shot with my 500 linebaugh. the bullet was one that a buddy out west had a mold made for. It had a HONKING hp caviity. Bullet weighted about 400 grains as is and in my opinion even a solid at 400 grains in the 500 is borderline for penetration on big stuff. I shot it behind the shoulder at 40 yards and it took off running. Put another behind the shoulder at about 50 yards still kept running. I didnt think much of it as buffalo tend to do that with no matter what you shoot them with. We took off after it and followed it for about a 1/4 mile and my buddy had an oppertunity to put the same bullet into the oposite shoulder and again it kept going. We followed for another 1/4 mile and found it in the swamp. I took my buddys wifes 29 smith loaded with hardcast and put one right in the brain bucket and down it went. When we cut it open we found that none of the 3 hollow points had penetrated anymore then 8 inchs and one was lucky to have cleared the hide. they were all recovered and all looked like big parachutes and thats just how they acted in the animal.

I think part of the problem was the weight part of the problem was the overexpansion and part of it is that in a caliber as big as a 50 the bullets are huge to start with and it probably takes a good amount of power to drive them in deap. Its probably why the 475 tends to outpenetrate the 500s. Maybe a 500 grain hp cast a tad harder would have decked that buffalo but im all done trying to shoot stuff bigger then 500 lbs with hps in handguns. To me its kind of like fixing a problem that doesnt exist. I good heavy cast bullet out of a 44 cal or bigger will do alot of killing without expanding one bit.

I do have a mold for a 50 cal hollow point that does go about 490 cast out of ww plus tin. I bought it more for the 50 alaskan. It has the snort to drive them home even if the do loose some weight or exapand a bit to much. I guess to me in the big picture there just fun to play with. I dont fool myself anymore thinking im reinventing the wheel though. Big animals should get big tough bullets in my opinion. Hps to me are more of a deer and black bear and hog propostion.

[45 2.1]

Lloyd, I have to wonder what made you try a deep frangible HP with somewhat too little of rear weight of boolit on a big heavy animal. One has to think enough to see what is needed for the job. The HP is there to disrupt tissue... in the right zone of the animal.... It will blow off (to the depth of the HP... at least my designs do. Others may not!) if it is large... remember that. The base (below the HP bottom) will be a jagged front square projectile to drive on thru (whatever is left of it). On big animals make sure enough base is left to do that. Another thread in this section is about that... and you've posted there. I use HPs on deer and smaller, if I were to go after bigger game, I would modify the shape and depth of the HP for it, not the width though. Know enough of what happens to a boolit to know which one to use for the intended game and placement...............

[white eagle]

I have the same mold in 475 great boolit for sure
Miha sure knows his molds
have yet to shoot anything other than paper with it though
but it sure is impressive

[Lloyd Smale]

i used it because the guy who gave them to us designed the mold and wanted them tested. Live and learn. I guess looking back we probably figured the 500linebaugh would take care of business with about any bullet but thats far from true.

[TCTex]

I look at this way. I wouldn’t use a 240gr XTP to hunt a buffalo. LOL. In Fact, that is how I look at the 265 & 245gr 44cal bullets. To me they have the same practical application as the 240gr jacketed bullets. Those bullets are WW’s that have been water quenched.

The 45 cal bullets are a little different. They are air cooled 235gr projectiles. In fact, they wouldn’t do well over about 900-950fps. From what I have read, the Lyman Devastators is a great “self protection” when the bullet is air cooled. When it is water quenched it penetrates on game really well.

So with that being said, bullet alloy AND temperament is crucial for hollow points. It is simple-you have to match game to bullet construction. Weather it is jacketed, cast, or depleted uranium. Nothing different here…

In this case, I also have two sets of pins to go with every mold. Kind of cool to me. If there is too much, or not enough, expiation do to alloy and velocity I can adjust accordingly.

Here is an article over cast HP’s. I call it one article because they are all written by the same person and to me they are each like a chapter in a book.

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellExperiments44Special.htm

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCastHPTNG.htm

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLymanDevastator.htm

[frank505]

Lloyd, you should see what that HP bullet does to prairie dogs though...........

[TCTex]

I laughed so hard I just about spewed my coffee all over my computer screen!!!


Duane

[Lloyd Smale]

he frank. How you doing. AL was just asking if ive heard from you since youve come home. Any plans to start Mt Baldy back up? Hope you and the wife are doing well.

[TCTex]

I found this on Buffalo Bore's websight. I thought it was AWESOME.

Take it for what it worth...

Good read,

Buffalo Bore (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=232)

61070



Deer Grenade 44 Mag. +P

Buffalo Bore's Deer Grenade 44 Mag. +P is a 240gr. Massive, Hollow Nosed, 12 BHN cast bullet with a gas check traveling at the below velocities out of stock, real world, over-the-counter firearms:

1. 1935 fps -- Marlin 1894 20 inch
2. 1897 fps -- Marlin 1894 18 inch
3. 1871 fps -- Marlin 1894 16.5 inch
4. 1578 fps -- Ruger Super Blackhawk 5.5 inch
5. 1535 fps -- Ruger Redhawk 5.5 inch
6. 1466 fps -- S&W MT Gun 4 inch

This load is designed as the world's premier deer load for 44 mag. The cast bullet is not considered soft, but it is not really a HARD cast bullet either as it only has a BHN (Brinell Hardness Numnber) of 12 so, it could be termed a medium/hard cast bullet. It performs as follows:

At an impact velocity of 1,100 fps it will mushroom to about 75 Cal. and should push right through any deer with a broadside shot.

At an impact velocity of 1,500 fps it will mushroom and some of the mushroom will fragment off and send bullet particles flying through the deer, but much of the mushroom and shank will remain intact and should push through any deer hit broadside.

At an impact velocity of 1,900 fps the entire mushroom will turn into shrapnel and send bullet particles all throughout the deer. The shank will remain intact, but will re-mushroom and do horrific damage inside the deer and will probably push through any deer hit broadside.

Of course all these results will vary depending on how much bone, if any, you hit, etc. This load was designed specifically to do horrific damage to deer sized game and as such does not penetrate like a hard cast flat nosed bullet. This bullet only penetrates about 30% as deep as a typical flat nosed hard cast bullet, which is perfect penetration for shallow game like deer, and medium sized pigs or black bear. This load is your best bet for immediately anchoring any deer with the 44 mag. cartridge that is not CNS (central nervous system) hit.