New problem with S&W wheelgun

[bcr]

I got a good deal last year on a used S&W 696 (.44 Special, L-frame). As far as I could tell it hadn't been fired, but who knows. Anyway, it looked to be in mint condition and had a better than average trigger. Today I had it out on the range for the second time, and after the first cylinder full I started to have problems with the trigger where it was very difficult to pull or stopped about 3/4 of the way back and would go no further. I was shooting qualification for my CCW so I didn't have opportunity to fuss with it and after the instructor took a look at it and reproduced the problem he sent me back to the tables and said I could pass anyway (since he already saw what I did with my 1911). I have been shooting revolvers for twenty years and this is the first time I have experienced this failure mechanism. When I got it home I still had the same problem. I was able to cock it SA then and free it up for a couple of shots, then it came back for a couple more, then I got it free and dry fired maybe 30 times without a problem. Is that just some grit in the action for some reason, and what should I do about it? Do I need to get it to a gunsmith. It's one of my favorite guns otherwise and I'd like to have it 100% reliable. I might carry it once I can get the gun qualified to my satisfaction.

[rockshooter]

First thing I would do is clean it, esp under the extractor star. One grain of powder under there will bind things up. Secondly, make sure the ejector rod is tight- sometimes these back out and bind things up. It's doubtful that you have any serious mechanical problems.
Loren

[williamwaco]

I suspect you find the cylinder very hard to turn.
So hard that it is nearly impossible to turn with the double action trigger pull.

This is nearly always caused by rounds not seating fully in the cylinder and rubbing against the recoil shield.

It is an ammo problem, not a problem with the revolver.



.

[bcr]

Thanks guys.

I cleaned under the extractor star. There were a couple flakes of Unique there, but I am still having the problem with that area clean and no ammo. I noticed when I shake it or rotate it back and forth I can hear something loose inside. Doesn't seem like a good sign at all, although it's working most of the time and I'm still having the trigger hang-up occasionally.

I've had the ammo issue a few times in the past so I'm always conscious of that potential problem.

[imashooter2]

I suspect you find the cylinder very hard to turn.
So hard that it is nearly impossible to turn with the double action trigger pull.

This is nearly always caused by rounds not seating fully in the cylinder and rubbing against the recoil shield.

It is an ammo problem, not a problem with the revolver.



.


And / or high primers doing the same rubbing.

[imashooter2]

Thanks guys.

I cleaned under the extractor star. There were a couple flakes of Unique there, but I am still having the problem with that area clean and no ammo. I noticed when I shake it or rotate it back and forth I can hear something loose inside. Doesn't seem like a good sign at all, although it's working most of the time and I'm still having the trigger hang-up occasionally.

I've had the ammo issue a few times in the past so I'm always conscious of that potential problem.

The "loose" part is the hammer block, completely normal.

Is the cylinder gap very tight? Lead build up on the cylinder face perhaps?

[BRobertson]

Could be a loose ejector rod

Your gun should have left handed threads, and is designed to tighten as it is used.

I have seen some loose ones in the newer guns however,

Bob

[bcr]

The "loose" part is the hammer block, completely normal.

Is the cylinder gap very tight? Lead build up on the cylinder face perhaps?

Not that I can see. I only have a handful of rounds through it, and when I got it I could not tell if it had ever been fired or not.

[bcr]

As far as I can tell this isn't the case either. If I hold the cylinder still the only motion in the ejector rod is backwards to eject the cases as it should.

[Dan Cash]

Key lock??? Grit or dry and binding rebound block.

[bcr]

Key lock??? Grit or dry and binding rebound block.

No key on this one, it's a no dash model.

[MtGun44]

Ejector rod is unscrewing itself.

Bill

[Fluxed]

With the gun closed, can you move the cylinder back and forth? (on the axis of the bore, not side to side) That is called "end shake" and you need a little bit. If it does not move at all the gun may stop working just from getting hot or just a few grains of unburned powder. Zero end shake is not enough, about .002" is just right and a little more does not hurt.

With the gun closed and at the front between the cylinder and barrel there should be enough space to slip a piece of thin paper into the gap. .004 to .006" or so is a good range for barrel to cylinder gap.

If you can't make these determinations, you might take this to a good gunsmith who regularly works on S&W revolvers.

[Tatume]

S&W will fix it for you, and you'll be pleased with their work. I doubt if they will charge you anything. Give them a call:

1-800-331-0852 (USA)
Mon-Fri 8:00AM-8:00PM Eastern Time

Take care, Tom

[44man]

The hand spring or sear spring might have broken.
Ejector rod unscrewing is another.
S&W will fix but anyone that owns a gun should be able to take it apart. The S&W is easy, just use good screwdrivers.
Could be dirt but you need to take the side plate off to clean and lube the gun. Do not pry it off, tap the grip frame on a hunk of wood to free it.
The front screw when removed will allow the crane to slide out.

[Paul105]

Check to make sure the mainspring (hammer spring) isn't rubbing on the grip panels. Sometimes the spring is installed off center and extends past the side of the grip frame causing it to bind on the grip panels.

Paul

[Mal Paso]

If the cylinder gap is under .004" The cylinder will start to drag after a few shots from lead and powder debris in the gap. If the shooter never figures it out eventually the gun gets sold in "like new condition".

[bcr]

With the gun closed, can you move the cylinder back and forth? (on the axis of the bore, not side to side) That is called "end shake" and you need a little bit. If it does not move at all the gun may stop working just from getting hot or just a few grains of unburned powder. Zero end shake is not enough, about .002" is just right and a little more does not hurt.

With the gun closed and at the front between the cylinder and barrel there should be enough space to slip a piece of thin paper into the gap. .004 to .006" or so is a good range for barrel to cylinder gap.

If you can't make these determinations, you might take this to a good gunsmith who regularly works on S&W revolvers.

I cannot detect any endshake. If there is any, it is very small. I can see and feel what I guess must be about .002" on my GP100 and my S&W 63, so maybe that's part or all of the problem on the 696.

B/C gap is .005" (feeler gauge).

[bcr]

S&W will fix it for you, and you'll be pleased with their work. I doubt if they will charge you anything. Give them a call:

1-800-331-0852 (USA)
Mon-Fri 8:00AM-8:00PM Eastern Time

Take care, Tom

Thanks, I will call them if I cannot get this figured out in a couple of days.

[bcr]

The hand spring or sear spring might have broken.
Ejector rod unscrewing is another.
S&W will fix but anyone that owns a gun should be able to take it apart. The S&W is easy, just use good screwdrivers.
Could be dirt but you need to take the side plate off to clean and lube the gun. Do not pry it off, tap the grip frame on a hunk of wood to free it.
The front screw when removed will allow the crane to slide out.

I don't have nice screwdrivers right now, I'm going to wait until I can pick them up because I don't want to damage this gun.

[bcr]

Ejector rod is unscrewing itself.

Bill

I'm not sure how to check this, but if I release the cylinder the ejector rod is not loose. Do I need to take the cylinder out of the gun to check this?

[imashooter2]

I'm not sure how to check this, but if I release the cylinder the ejector rod is not loose. Do I need to take the cylinder out of the gun to check this?

When the ejector rod loosens, you can't swing the cylinder out. It would have to be way, WAY backed out to bind the cylinder in double action firing. You don't have a loose ejector rod.

[imashooter2]

I cannot detect any endshake. If there is any, it is very small. I can see and feel what I guess must be about .002" on my GP100 and my S&W 63, so maybe that's part or all of the problem on the 696.

B/C gap is .005" (feeler gauge).

Sounds like the problem. A revolver has to have some end shake or it can't operate. Check and see if there aren't a few shims installed in the cylinder. Installing .002 shims over the ejector rod is a common fix for excessive end shake. Someone might have just overdone it.

[MtGun44]

Try to tighten the ejector rod, newer ones are rt hand thread, old ones are left hand thread.

Open cyl, grip rod in front of cyl with cardboard and pliers (to not mar it). You should be able to
tighten it with fingers if it is really loose.

Excess end shake can let the front of the cyl drag on the rear of the barrel. If the end shake is
excessive, the crane tube that the cyl pivots on needs to be "stretched", a job for the factory
or a qualified S&W gunsmith.

Bill

[imashooter2]

If you are going to be twisting on the ejector rod, put fired brass in the cylinder first.

[jmsj]

bcr,
I have seen one other S&W do just what you experiencing. It was a "Thunder Ranch" .45 ACP model and it also failed at a CCW qualification.
The owner brought it to me and I took it apart, cleaned, lubed and put it together and it ran fine. The next day he calls me and says that it did the same thing. I took it apart again and this time inspected all the parts with a loupe. There were burrs on the hand and the hand slot was very tight. It would work when the gun was squeaky clean on the bench but would tie up at the range. I stoned the hand and have not heard of it tying up again.
Just a guess.
jmsj

[Geraldo]

It could be brass, but that might indicate a problem I had with a Colt. The rear of the cylinder was not faced square, so there was less clearance between the rear of the cylinder and the frame on three chambers. It didn't matter with some brands of brass, but one brand I happened to have a lot of would cause a problem similar to yours. Colt said the cylinder was in spec, but I had a machinist chuck it in a lathe and put a dial indicator on it. We found a few thousandths difference. He trued up the cylinder and all was well after that.

[44man]

An old 1/4" chuck out of a tossed drill works good on the ejector rod. Tighten just enough with the key and hand turn the rod to tighten it. It takes little and the chuck will not mar the rod. Don't get heavy handed with it.
When you have a drill go bad, save the chuck, it is a great toll for deburring, etc.

[sargenv]

Personally, I'd send it back to S&W.. they should be able to fix it.