Brushes in a 22 rimfire

[0802]

I bought a Ruger Mk III 22/45 this past weekend and in the course of the sale, the salesman tells me that using a cleaning brush on the barrel will strip/ruin it (and apparently any 22). He said I should never need to use anything except a patch and bore cleaner.

I'm no expert, but I've never heard this. Is he right? If so, what makes the steel or rifling in a 22 barrel any different than any other gun?

I tend to believe he's wrong, but am not willing to let my ignorance ruin the barrel.

Thanks,
Josh

[Bret4207]

Guys blowing smoke. Was he wearing a Tactical Mall Ninja type tee-shirt, or maybe one of those removable "Death Before Dishonor" type tattoos, maybe a few pierceings or those elongated ear lobe holes I see becomeing all the rage these days? Shaved head and a tattoo of a snake on his face? Salesmen used to be required to have some vague idea of what they were talking about. That brand is rapidly going the way of the buggy whip.

Used properly I can think of no reason an appropriately sized brush would harm a barrel.

[44man]

Maybe his barrels are made of plastic! Seems to me .22's are made of the same quality steel as any other gun. The only way to ruin a barrel is if the rod rubs and is the reason I use a bore protector, or if the brush is screwed up and the center wire rubs the bore. A bronze brush will not harm a bore. If it worries you, use a tynex brush.
Normally a .22 doesn't need cleaned very often anyway unless accuracy falls off or you have to store it. If you have a lot of moisture where you keep your guns, then keep it clean and oiled.
I have never seen a leaded .22 bore and normally, a patch and jag will clean it up nicely.
I only clean my Rugers when there is so much crud that the action doesn't work right anymore. That takes a LOT of shells. I have owned a lot of Rugers since they only cost $37.50 and I never ruined any with a brush. Most accurate, reliable gun for the money you will ever find.
By the way, most .22's today suck, try the CCI Blue tag Mini Mag hollow points in your gun. Right now, they are the most accurate. When the WW Wildcat first came out they were super as were the WW high velocity hollow point. I have shot 3/4" groups at 100 yd's with them in a Marlin. The Remington was great for a while. Then all .22's went to pot as they changed bullets and speeded up production. The Ruger does NOT like low velocity target rounds. RWS, Eley, CCI, Federal, WW or Remington target loads don't shoot good. Federal bulk loads shoot decent if you can put up with the bloopers. WW bulk boxes have more bloopers then any. You will hear all kinds of different reports. I am really disappointed with .22 shells today. The shells will be the limiting factor for your accuracy.

[Blammer]

He's full of crap.

clean per ususal as you do your other guns. You'll be good to go.

[0802]

Thanks fellas -- I figured as much on his reliability. As mentioned, I don't see a need to clean this pistol (with the appropriate rod and brush) that often, but its nice to know I can if need be.

I ran a box and a half of old Remington 22s through it yesterday with good results, though it took about 50 rounds for the groups to tighten. I don't know exactly how old the 22s were, but they're some of the last from a brick that came with my Marlin Model 39 Carbine when I got it for my birthday in the early 80s.

Thanks,
Josh

[Scrounger]

I'm sure I don't absolutely know the best way to clean that or any other gun, but like the rest of you, I have opinions. I would think asking the manufacturer would be the best person to ask. I think I remember reading that rimfire barrels are made from softer steel than centerfire barrels because the pressure is so much lower. We could probably get different answers to that question from different barrel makers, I'd bet.

[fourarmed]

On .22s that require you to clean from the muzzle -- in fact, on about all .22s now -- I use the Bore Snake. Once or twice through and you are done, with no rod wear. I don't know how they do on CF calibers, but for the .22 LR, they are the cat's ass.

[racepres]

i sure hope that T/C used the same metal for the rimfires, as the rest of the .22's.. Cause I have one which was rechambered to the 22-30 wildcat!!! I have only run a few hundred rounds thru 'er to date, Can't say that I'm concerned!!!! MV

[Scrounger]

Mike Bellm claims they're softer than centerfire barrels: http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/about_factory_barrels.htm

[racepres]

So he does!!! But since he also believes that they will handle 22 Hornet, and 218 Bee, I ain't gonna lose much sleep, as the water capacity of the 22-30 is almost exactly that of the 218 Bee!!! Thanks for the link! MV

[fishhawk]

looks to me like he was saying that TC barrels are softer doesn't mean that others are :-?

[slughammer]

For the 22/45, take the bolt out and clean it from the chamber end. No need to mess with it from the crown end.

[45nut]

On .22s that require you to clean from the muzzle -- in fact, on about all .22s now -- I use the Bore Snake. Once or twice through and you are done, with no rod wear. I don't know how they do on CF calibers, but for the .22 LR, they are the cat's ass.

Ditto on the 17's, I love it for my ott hmr barrel.

[9.3X62AL]

I don't brush out 22 LR barrels very often--don't see the need, unless a problem develops. I do use brushes pretty regularly in chambers, though--esp. in D/A revolver cylinders, which crud up and start making extraction balky. Every 50 rounds, the chambers get brushed/wet patched/dry patched with Hoppe's. In the 22 rifles and pistols, a wet patch followed by a few dry patches usually suffices, even for chambers.

[Bass Ackward]

Some 22 steels are softer. Some are not.

[Bret4207]

I would agree some, or perhaps many, 22 barrels are made of softer steels than say, a 204 Ruger Stainless barrel. That being said, I don't think bronze, brass, plastic or and other material NORMALLY used for cleaning will do any harm to a 22 barrel. We all know you can break darn near anything given enough time, effort and stupidity. From what I've seen, we don't have anyone around here with those attributes.

BTW- I have a 22/45 Mk111. On a good day it'll shade my FIL High Standard Supermatic, and thats aying something!

[Newtire]

I don't think ist's the bronze brush so much you have to worry about but the impurities that collect in the soft bronze and act like sandpaper.

[fourarmed]

For years, I didn't think it was necessary to clean a .22LR bore, then one day I was testing ammo in a scoped Contender at 75 yards on a turkey silhouette. I was missing it by as much as a foot. I pulled the Bore Snake through it a couple of times, and it started putting them into an inch in the center of the turkey. Since then, a BS has been in my cleaning boxes and my silhouette tray.

[44man]

They will get clogged with lube and fouling. I always cleaned after a shoot and would shoot one into the wood pile before going to another shoot. But for general plinking, it can go a long way before missing cans and such.
My experience with TC barrels is that they foul very fast. I no longer own any. My 30-30 barrel was so bad all I seen was copper or lead. They replaced it with a barrel that fouled twice as fast. Cast boolits shot good for a while but then became a joke. I don't know what they make now but I won't buy any to find out.

[Newtire]

They will get clogged with lube and fouling. I always cleaned after a shoot and would shoot one into the wood pile before going to another shoot. But for general plinking, it can go a long way before missing cans and such.
My experience with TC barrels is that they foul very fast. I no longer own any. My 30-30 barrel was so bad all I seen was copper or lead. They replaced it with a barrel that fouled twice as fast. Cast boolits shot good for a while but then became a joke. I don't know what they make now but I won't buy any to find out.

There's a guy goes to our local range who puts up a piece of typing paper with about 10 little quarter sized bullseyes on it and sits down & proceeds to just eat each little circle up. Next time I see him, I'll ask him what his secret with TC is.

[Buckshot]

..............The 22RF is an absolutely FILTHY cartridge. That is, so far as flotsam and jetsam ending up in the action.

Several years ago, 'Precision Shooting' magazine did, or had a survey done of those folks competing in the BR50 (22RF, Bench) competition. The response was large in number, and the magazine devoted several pages to excerps they'd taken that ran the gamut from minimalist to absolutely anal to the Nth degree.

These guys were serious and while there were quite a few with factory rifles like Win M52's, Rem M37's and such, there were also guys with full on custom actions and multi hundred dollar barrels. As you'd expect, there were those who cleaned the action only and the barrel only when they had accuracy problems.

What really blew my gourd were the number of people who used steel wool ...................... regularly! I've only had one bad leading issue in any of my RF's and that was my Ruger MkII and Remington Vipers (which do well in all the others to one degree or another, but don't lead). However that Ruger's barrel was bushed down to 14 cal in a hurry! Using steel wool NEVER crossed my mind, yet many of the respondents to the survey did.

I do know that the wrong brush WILL ruin a soft 22 RF barrel. Kenny, our old rangemaster related a story of a guy with a High Standard Victor, or Victory. I don't recall now, it's been years but the guy went after it with a 22 cal stainless steel brush. A bronze one probably wouldn't have, and at this time I don't recall if I was told why he used a stainless steel brush.

I think in this instance it may be simple mechanics in that the bristles in a 22 cal brush are of nessecity short and therefore much stiffer then say a 30 cal one. I really see no difference in individual bristle diameter between 22's and 45's. Twenty two RF barrels made of unheat treated 1137, 1144, or even 12L14 (which won't heat treat) could very easily be scratched with a stiff stainless brush. Especially a cheap one, and if it was reversed mid-barrel.

I don't know how common soft 22 barrels are these days, but one reason for them was they machined so well and left very smooth bores in the days of cut or broached rifling.

.................Buckshot

[Dave C.]

My Marvel and my S&W Model 41 both have well over 35,000 rounds each and
have never had anything other than a bullet through the barrel of ether one
of them will still shoot under an inch at 50 yds from the bench. Many 22's are
ruined by unneeded and improper cleaning of the barrel. Yes the crud must be
cleaned from the action but I have never seen a leaded barrel when using
good quality ammo.

[trickyasafox]

i don't have anything against brushes, i use nylon ones or just patches.

i've never really had any mess that couldn't be cleaned if you let the solvent do its job.

[BruceB]

We all pretty much know how religious the military organizations are about cleaning/shining/painting everything that doesn't move (and a lot of the things that DO move).

This institutional attitude led me to be very impressed with the care of .22 rifles as described in the Canadian Army manual for the "Rifle, .22 C #7"...essentially a .22 barrel and bolt face on a #4 rifle, with a nice target sight added. I remember the instruction well: "Barrels on .22 -caliber rifles will only be cleaned once annually, for inspection purposes."

At that point, I ceased worrying about cleaning .22 rimfire bores, although I do sluice out the other areas as needed.

I believe that there's a strong similarity between the conditions existing in a fouled .22 rimfire, and a barrel fouled by cast-bullet shooting. Unless there's actual leading visible in my CB bores, the barrels do NOT get cleaned, as I try to maintain the "conditioning" created by the waxy lubes and powder fouling....VERY similar to .22 rimfire conditions. I don't remember the last time I cleaned many of my rifles...I'd bet the Rigby Ruger #1 hasn't seen a cleaning rod or bore brush in five years or more.

If a firearm gets wet afield, then yes, I'd clean the bore, but that's about it.

Interestingly, just last month in Rifle Magazine, the gent writing the back-page column said that he has virtually stopped cleaning his rifle barrels entirely. He shoots jacketed stuff, and some is pretty high-intensity ammo, too. Says he did some testing, and found absolutely no benefit to the cleaning regime.

[44man]

I don't like copper fouling! Some fine barrels will not build much but I have had a lot of factory guns here that totally lost accuracy. The last was a Rem 760 that would barely do 5" at 100. It took me a week to clean it and remove all the copper. It then shot below 3/4". I had several contenders that would look like melted pennies were poured through after 40 rounds. Back then, TC would replace the barrels with no question but I always got one that was worse. To get them smooth would change the caliber.
It depends on the rifling quality. My old Swede has a pitted bore but will hold 1/2", it sure picks up copper fast though. Sometimes it helps by smoothing the pits, then it gets too thick.
I use a lot of steel wool on brushes but only for the old, rusted muzzle loaders brought here to be cleaned. Might as well use it on rust, can't hurt much. It works good in shotgun barrels too but I only use the real fine stuff with a lot of solvent on it.

[Trapshooter]

Another way people mess up 22 revolvers is by using rifle brushes to clean them. The rifle brush is longer than the cylinder, so when they pull the brush out, the bristles are stabbed into the sides of the forcing cone and throat. Especially bad with a stainless brush.

Trapshooter

[BD]

I have one of the earlier 22/45s. I shot a year of bullseye with it and it did just fine. I've also taken quite a few little critters with it. I clean the action about every 1,000 rounds or when the trigger starts to feel a little "gritty". I think I've cleaned the barrel once or twice in about 20,000 rounds. More important is to keep the slide and firing pin lightly oiled as it will gunk up from powder residue and lube.
BD

[utk]

For my .22 pistols (dont have .22 rifles) i wipe the gunk off the breech face with a q-tip wetted with ed's red. Then I put a few drops of ed's red on a patch and push it through the bore with a weed trimmer line. Followed by a couple dry ones. The magazine gets the same treatment with a q-tip.
Occasionally, I use a nylon brush. Can be done from the muzzle end if some of the brush bristles are trimmed down so that I don't have to reverse the bristles in the bore.
A .177 nylon brush/rod can also be used, in fact that's the one I use. I push it all the way in, give the rod a little twist while simultaneously reversing and pull out. The shorter bristles seem to make this reversal procedure easy.