My .45 ACP Arisaka Action

[andremajic]

Hey guys,
First of all, I'm sorry if these pics aren't in chronological order, but I'm not very good at making threads.
I had posted earlier that I was planning on putting a .45 ACP barrel on my type 38 action.
Finished it last night.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60823&d=1360450743
Cutting the threads
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60822&d=1360450738
Testing the thread fit in the action.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60821&d=1360450732
Next, I put the bolt, minus the extractor in and started using spotting compound to bore out the recess for the bolt face. Every time I got closer and closer, I would mark it with a black sharpie marker and close the bolt a couple times, which would rub the sharpie off and show that more needed to be taken off.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60820&d=1360450722
Here's a pic of the threaded barrel, with all the moly-dee cutting oil cleaned off.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60819&d=1360450714
Here's a pic of the assembled action.

[andremajic]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60818&d=1360450701
I still need to take the barrel off and spin it on the lathe and put a final finish on it, removing machine marks and scratches.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60817&d=1360450695
Here's a pic showing how the brass fits the chamber with enough of the rim for the extractor to catch.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60816&d=1360450689
Here's a pic showing the sharpie marker, which I used to spot in the bolt face. Wherever the sharpie rubbed off inside, material was slowly removed.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60815&d=1360450683
The extractor cut was the slowest to do, because I didn't have a mill I had to hand cut this out with files. A lot of short stroking files to remove the material. Probably took about 6-8 hours working on it on and off. I took a lot of breaks. When I got close, I used sharpie marker to mark all surfaces and wherever the extractor rubbed sharpie off, it was filed away. When the bolt fit in perfectly without rubbing off material, I reamed the barrel with a .45 ACP reamer. When I got close to finished reaming, I reassembled the action with the bolt already closed, and screwed it on to the barrel. Measuring the gap between the barrel shoulder and action with feeler gauges shows exacly how much deeper the reamer had to go.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60814&d=1360450677
Here's a pic of the threading tool I used. It's a cutoff tool made of HSS, sharpened to 60 degrees. This only takes 1 minute to resharpen, vs. the old 1/2" HSS tool blanks that I used to spend 15-30 minutes grinding.

The next steps will be to fit the action to a 90 percent inletted walnut stock from Richards Microfit in CA. It's a factory second, so it was only 65.00 shipped. More to follow later. ;D

[Artful]

Cool project...

So are you going to use standard box magazine or 1911 style to feed it?

I did the SMLE route - fun little guns.

[andremajic]

If I can figure out how to do a spacer, it would be great to use the arisaka box magazine, but since I don't have one yet, I'll have to figure it out still.

[bruce drake]

Its also one of my future project plans as well for a Mauser action I have sitting in a drawer.

Good work on using an Arisaka action.

Bruce

[Artful]

If I can figure out how to do a spacer, it would be great to use the arisaka box magazine, but since I don't have one yet, I'll have to figure it out still.
On the mauser conversion to 7.62x39 we put a block of plastic in the back of the magazine box and put the shortened follower up front, had to work over the bottom to get it feed 'em as it liked to jam in original state.

here's a link of someone else's with pick of their magazine
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?1326-Converting-93-1916-Mauser-to-7-62x39-or-45acp

[oldpara]

I would love, love , love to do that with one of my old Arisaka actions !!!!!
The 45 ACP would be great and I envy you and applaud you skills.
Please keep us updated on the project.

[TheGrimReaper]

VERY VERY Neat project you got there!!!

[Reg]

Would be slick if you could come up with some way to adapt a regular 1911 magazine somehow. A aluminum block with some kind of release mechanism held in the original trigger guard ????
I think it is called a Reinland ( something like that ) conversion that comes up with about this for the 98's and 95/93 Mausers. I think they have a site. Might be good for reference.
Neat project. Keep us updated !!!

[ANeat]

Very nice, On your extractor groove that would have been a good opportunity to us the lathe as a mill. Clamp up the barrel on your tool post (on center) chuck up a cutter in the spindle, instant horizontal mill...

If you could track down one of the de-milled 1911's that had a decent magwell that might be a good way to adapt or even make something that was removable??

45acp in a rifle is very fun....

[pacomdiver]

i also was thinking about doing a mauser in 45 before the actions went thru the roof, ive seen a couple junker jap sporters at the local gun shows, so i might grab one now that ive seen it done

[TCLouis]

Great looking project.
Many do not appreciate the Arisaka but I really like them, Type 38 or 99.

Be sure to post some results pics

One of us who bought one of the 45 Mauser 45 ACP kits ought to post pics of the parts included in the Rhineland kit (Barrel, headspacing/lock nut magazine adapter).

[andremajic]

755467554775548

Almost finished inletting the stock. The black stuff you see on the action and barrel is black sharpie that I was using as a spotting compound. I'm still looking for some type 38 arisaka screws to hold the trigger guard on.
I'm going to be doing a bit more metal work, thinning the trigger guard, some trigger work, and since this is a .45 acp rifle, I'm planning on putting a steel buttplate on, since there isn't going to be much recoil.

After the final polish, I'll drill and tap the barrel for the front and rear sights from a handi rifle, and I'm planning on a rust blue. (It's so humid here, I might as well use that to my advantage!)

Andy.

[TCLouis]

Great looking project and fun result to boot. Are you going to make an adapter to fill the mag well and feed from a 1911 magazine like the Rhineland Mauser modification some of the folks did here a couple of years ago??

No one ever reported any results and/or chrono data from that project so I hope you will do so with yours.

[andremajic]

Sure will. I'm probably just going to single feed them for a while until I figure out the mag conversion. Chrono is a must, and since it's a bolt action, I should be able to shoot pretty HOT loads without fear of frame battering and such as it is with a 1911.

[EMC45]

Been waiting to see some updates on this project. Looking really good!

[swheeler]

Andy very cool project, those Arisaka actions are finding more uses, good for you.

[khmer6]

That is a sweet project. Some crazy skills

[n.h.schmidt]

I have had a no4 converted to 45acp for about 34years. You can hot load this only to a point. The cases are the weak point. The web will expand first .This gives you loose primer pockets. The primers will begin to fall out when you extract to fired case. I don't know any way around this. Just use it as a fun plinker.
n.h.schmidt

[khmer6]

Would sealing the primer pockets be worth it?

[Artful]

Not really - but for 45 super type loads I have a small stash of the steel WW2 45 ACP Cases which seem much stronger.

[Outpost75]

Great thread. Have enjoyed this. Thanks for posting. Great pics!

[Reg]

I have had a no4 converted to 45acp for about 34years. You can hot load this only to a point. The cases are the weak point. The web will expand first .This gives you loose primer pockets. The primers will begin to fall out when you extract to fired case. I don't know any way around this. Just use it as a fun plinker.
n.h.schmidt

Could I ask you, at what point did you start having trouble ?

[Artful]

Reg, you might want to look at this link
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?176386-Making-45-Super-from-30-06-brass
here's a link about 45 Super
http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm

[Reg]

Reg, you might want to look at this link
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?176386-Making-45-Super-from-30-06-brass
here's a link about 45 Super
http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm


Good information here and does answer a lot of questions. Have played with the thought of one of these conversions for a few years and am still rounding up information. Have a barrel, reamer and a very nice 1891 Mau. action, just need time. Would not be trying to make any kind of elephant gun but rather a cheap, fun can roller. It actually might be such that just normal .45 ACP pistol loads would provide all the "punch" wanted. Got to get something up and going then see where it goes.
The 91 action will, of course, limit the upper pressure to 45,000 psi max. and really should be held down to 40,000 psi especially if we are looking at the possibility of primer web failure. Actually, I prefer the possibility just doesn't exist.
Never gave a thought of cutting down and reaming 06 cases or using .45 Mag. cases but both would offer much greater strength. Good ideas.
Will keep following this thread. Want to see how someone comes up with a simple way to use 1911 magazines.
These are the kind of projects that make our hobby fun.

[Artful]

...
Will keep following this thread. Want to see how someone comes up with a simple way to use 1911 magazines.
These are the kind of projects that make our hobby fun.

Simplest way to use 1911 magazine is a conversion block -
Enfield #4 to 1911
http://www.specialinterestarms.com/5849.JPG

Here's one for an AR
http://www.riflegear.com/images/Product/medium/397.jpg

Basically on any of them you need to fill your existing magazine cavity and in the appropriate place have a hole for the magazine you want to use and a catch mechanism.

[n.h.schmidt]

It was asked so I will say. Using unique pistol powder, I don't remember how much. I could get up to 1200 fps with a 200 gr swc soft lead boolit. At this point the cases would be useless and the primers would fall out. GI 230gr ball would get 1000 fps from the same rifle. You could use a 45 mag case cut down or a 308 case cut down but you would also reduce your case volume too..
n.h.schmidt

[andremajic]

I went ahead and made an action screw at 28tpi to hold it together. If I can find some trigger guard screws on the forum for a type 38 I'd really like to use original screws! A hex head screw just doesn't look right on this rifle!

drilled and tapped the barrel for front and rear sights, which I purchased from the swap&sell forum from the guy selling the handi rifle sights, and sanded a lot more of the rough machine marks off of the stock.
77362

Shot it at 25m at the range tonight. Almost zero recoil. I'm thinking that a steel buttplate would work just fine on this light rifle.
Zero leading, but there was quite a bit of burnt powder accumulating in the bore. lol. Ran a boresnake thru it and the bore is dazzling bright.

After adjusting the rear sight, and aiming low about 3 inches I'm getting center hits. Much better accuracy than a tricked out 1911 pistol. I'm going to shoot it tomorrow at 50m and I'll bet it's at point of aim at that distance. Single loading rounds wasn't too difficult. If you are used to single loading shotgun shells in the breech, it's about as complicated as that.
I was about exited as a kid on christmas when I shot it at the range!
More pics to follow as I pretty it up.
Andy.

Gotta think of a name for it.

How about the Konichiwhat rifle?

[Artful]

Looking good - but I wouldn't blame a poor group out of a tricked out pistol on the pistol...:kidding:

Konnichi wa - is 'good afternoon' as I recall so Konnichi wa rifle would be my suggestion.

Ōmono which is "Big Shot" in Japanese... Omono Stick?

Watashi no omocha is "MY TOY" in Japanese
Kan Satsugai-sha is "Can Slayer" in Japanese

If it was suppressed I would go with
Sairento kuchiku-kan - "Silent Destroyer"
Shi o sasayaku - "Whispering Death"

Jap-Hammer - 'cuz they will hit like a jackhammer from your Ariska

[mikeym1a]

It was asked so I will say. Using unique pistol powder, I don't remember how much. I could get up to 1200 fps with a 200 gr swc soft lead boolit. At this point the cases would be useless and the primers would fall out. GI 230gr ball would get 1000 fps from the same rifle. You could use a 45 mag case cut down or a 308 case cut down but you would also reduce your case volume too..
n.h.schmidt

The load I used in my 1911a1 was 7.4gns Unique, LRP, Lee 200gr microgroove semi-wadcutter. Load was from Speer #8 manual. According to that source, I should have had a MV of ~950 FPS. Only 1200? I guess case volume wouldn't allow more. Just curious. :?

[94Doug]

This may sound silly, but has anyone tried a shot shell out of one of these rifle conversions. As in shells made with the RCBS set converting 308's? I'd be curious how they would perform with a 00 buck holding the shot.

Doug

[freebullet]

Very nice build. Can't wait to see the finish on that wood.

[grumman581]

I've killed quite a few deer with an old 7.7mm Arisaka that my father had brought back from WWII. It's a nice round and more than enough for any of the whitetails that I encountered in my youth. Why did you want to convert it to .45ACP? I could see maybe cutting down a .308 at the shoulder and loading a .45 bullet. That would probably result in a straight case instead of a bottleneck and the brass should last quite awhile.

[Artful]

In my case the 45 ACP conversion of my #4 Enfield was a road to a real quiet plinker.
I want to either put a muzzle can on it or make it like a De lisle Carbine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsUALdGog4U

[andremajic]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
this

Also, I have no idea how strong an action like this is after the condition I got it.

I was able to file the ground off mum area and other areas without a problem, so the heat treat is toast.

.45 ACP brass is pretty plentiful and I can cast .45 boolits by the hundreds. It also uses a lot less powder, so me being the frugal guy I am can stretch my reloading supplies and make them last longer.

[Just Duke]

I went ahead and made an action screw at 28tpi to hold it together. If I can find some trigger guard screws on the forum for a type 38 I'd really like to use original screws! A hex head screw just doesn't look right on this rifle!

drilled and tapped the barrel for front and rear sights, which I purchased from the swap&sell forum from the guy selling the handi rifle sights, and sanded a lot more of the rough machine marks off of the stock.
77362

Shot it at 25m at the range tonight. Almost zero recoil. I'm thinking that a steel buttplate would work just fine on this light rifle.
Zero leading, but there was quite a bit of burnt powder accumulating in the bore. lol. Ran a boresnake thru it and the bore is dazzling bright.

After adjusting the rear sight, and aiming low about 3 inches I'm getting center hits. Much better accuracy than a tricked out 1911 pistol. I'm going to shoot it tomorrow at 50m and I'll bet it's at point of aim at that distance. Single loading rounds wasn't too difficult. If you are used to single loading shotgun shells in the breech, it's about as complicated as that.
I was about exited as a kid on christmas when I shot it at the range!
More pics to follow as I pretty it up.
Andy.

Gotta think of a name for it.

How about the Konichiwhat rifle?

Well that came out real nice!

[andremajic]

Got the barrel parkerized with the homebrew recipe using jasco prep, maganese dioxide, and a buffet food warmer. I boiled the parts to preheat and clean them, and transferred them direct to the park bath. The reciever had a lot of hidden rust, which I was able to take off with a toothbrush and some full strength phosphoric acid.

After parkerizing, the parts were thouroughly washed in fresh cold water and then transferred into WD40 to displace any hidden water. After wiping the excess off, I used regular gun oil and then let it sit overnight to soak it all up.

It took a lot longer than I though it would, but it's probably because the temp was about 150 instead of the 195 degrees that is recommended. The reciever came out with a darker than normal patch which can't be helped. Case hardened metal shows up as lighter, while the softer metal parks a dark charcoal. I suppose in the future I can sand thru the case hardening on the rest of the reciever so the color matches better, or just strip the oils and use some gun kote epoxy.

I still need to do the trigger guard and smaller parts, but put it together to show the progress.
803598036080361

The stock work isn't quite done. In fact, I was considering chopping off the forend to balance the look of the rifle better. I'll play around in photoshop to see if a shorter forend will look better. I'm not too happy with the length of pull, so I'm probably going to chop a little off the buttstock and then make a buttplate out of steel.

It's coming along, just slower than I thought it would.
Andy.

[Artful]

Photoshop a "Can" on the end of the existing barrel :p
Like the middle one in this picture from Special Interest Arms

http://www.specialinterestarms.com/100_6180.jpg

[roverboy]

Andremajic, I think it looks great. I'd like to try a project like this someday. Let us know how some more loads shoot in it later on.

[roverboy]

I remember a article years ago, right after the Marlin Model 45 came out and the author worked up some "carbine" loads for it. I can't remember what magazine it was though. Sorry.

[Artful]

So how's it looking now?

[andremajic]

Meh, haven't done much other than shoot it. Still have to find a buttplate.

[grumman581]

I'm thinking that a steel buttplate would work just fine on this light rifle.

Well, considering the fact that the original Arisaka came with a steel buttplate and it had more recoil than your creation, I would hazard to guess that a steel buttplate would be perfectly acceptable.

[Artful]

I've seen a few examples of late WW2 jap production with wooden Butt plate nailed on.
andremajic what are you looking for? Maybe something in the old parts bin that will help :-o

[andremajic]

I've seen a few examples of late WW2 jap production with wooden Butt plate nailed on.
andremajic what are you looking for? Maybe something in the old parts bin that will help :-o

Anything that is steel with enough metal to file off to bring it flush with the wood will do. I'll have to take the dimensions of the wood when I get home to figure it out.

[andremajic]

The butt dimensions of the wood is approx 5" tall by 1 3/4" at the widest part.

I'm not adverse to taking off a little wood to make it match the buttplate either, if the buttplate is slightly undersize. Just nothing extreme. I still want to lower the comb, as it's not really necessary with iron sights and gets in the way a little, if you're wearing earmuffs.

[Just Duke]

We's needs mo pitures

[Greg in va]

Put that steel butt plate on it but skeleton it and checker the inside.....

[Artful]

Oh, hadn't thought of that - like this?
http://www.hallowellco.com/hhg-22-cheetah-buttplate.jpg

[Greg in va]

Oh yea....that wood make it very nice.