marlin?

[saint_iverson]

Heard a nasty rumor today that marlin is out of business. I checked their website and tried to find more info online, but all I see are forums with rumors and no corroborating evidence. Any guys know? Proof?

[dragon813gt]

They are under the Freedom Group umbrella. With Cerberus trying to divest themselves of this interest I doubt they would kill an entire line that's worth millions. If you ask the hardcore. Marlin died when the the CT plant was closed.

[TrapperXX]

Yup. Marlin has been closed since 2009.
Now, Remington, owned by freedom group, (last rumored to be possibly on the block and being looked at by Taurus) tries to make a gun with the Marlin stamp but.....

[Woody3]

If your looking to buy a marlin, try to find one pre 09.
:D

[Ed in North Texas]

Yup. Any Marlin made after the start of WW II isn't worth spit and should be avoided. When they ramped up production of machine guns for the war their civilian business went to the proverbial hand basket.

[FergusonTO35]

I really hope that somebody buys Marlin and they regain their rightful place among gunmakers. H&R too!!

[colt1960]

Ive got a remington made Marlin gbl 1895 45-70. Its a very nice made rifle. made in 2011 I beleave. I also have two Marlin jm made rifles.

[dragon813gt]

I have a Remington made 1894C. Besides the wood being a little fatter in the forend it's perfect. The wood to metal fit is flush. It feeds everything I throw at it. The sights were lined up. And the action is smooth. While I understand that people are upset at the plant closing. Not all the new rifles are junk. It took some searching to find mine.

[btroj]

Come on guys, that is heresy. Everyone online knows that the new Marlins are all junk.

Wait, that's right, I don't buy into Internet rumor. When I decide to buy my next Marlin I will be looking at overall quality, not when it was made.

[FergusonTO35]

I saw a new Marlin XT .22 at a shop today. Very pretty rifle with a laminate stock. The action was a little tight and will probably break in over time. It looked as good as any of the CT guns I've seen and best of all, it was made in Kentucky.8-)

[Dave Bulla]

It's not heresy, it's fact.

During the time when the original plant was shutting down and the operations moved to NY, quality got real bad. That's not to say that they were ALL bad, just that the % of guns with quality issues went up a bunch. I have heard second hand of rifles making it to the store that had no rifling in them (two cases). I have PERSONALLY seen about a half dozen rifles with the barrels clocked wrong so the sights look crooked. I've seen large gaps in the wood to metal fit and I've seen the whole design shape of the stock change to a thicker, shapeless boat paddle look. The Marlin "barrel droop" syndrome was very real too. Again, it was nothing new as even some vintage rifles had that problem but it became so common as to be almost normal. The level of finish on the metal has been changed and is less glossy and more matte. The actions are rougher and the trigger pulls heavier overall. It's very easy for a new Marlin owner who has never owned any other Marlin to be very happy with the overall condition of the new Marlins but if you put an old one next to a new one, there is no comparison in quality, sleekness, fit, finish and feel.

Did Marlin ever make lemons before Remington took over? You bet they did. But nowhere near the number Remington did. Remington cut the production time per rifle WAAAAY down and at the same time was dealing with a brand new and inexperienced employee pool since nearly all of the original employees with decades of experience were either let go or elected not to move to NY. The time period I'm talking about is between 2009 and 2011 or early 2012. Around 2012 and even a little before, people were starting to get some pretty good guns at times but boy howdy there were a ton of folks very displeased with them before that. A lot of the issues were things that could be tuned up by the owner but the whole point was that the prices had gone up but the quality went down and people buying the new guns felt (rightly so) that they should work good right out of the box and they shouldn't have to polish the action internals or do a trigger job.

Bottom line, don't let me sway you but keep the info in the back of your mind and next time you happen to go to a good sporting goods store with a nice selection of new and used Marlins, do your own side by side comparison. Some people can't stand to buy a used car or a used gun. Me, I'd rather save a bunch of money, buy the older, better quality item for less and use the heck out of it.

p.s. I'll give Remington one concession... They have been putting some walnut that has pretty nice grain on some of the rifles. Namely the "deluxe" line. Looks like wood off of a good high end double shotgun on some of them. But then again, the first one of those I saw at my local Cabela's was a 30-30 on the used rack. It had a $799 price tag on it and it was also the first one that I personally ever saw with the crooked sights. For that money, the whole rifle should have been perfect!

[TMenezes]

I bought my first Marlin a few weeks ago. It was used but a beautiful 30/30, about 3 years old. The wood grain is really good and what sold me on it. I have just barely finished the first box of 20 rounds through it. Every 3rd or 4th round was very hard to eject. Finally it jammed up so bad that I couldn't get the case out of the chamber no matter how hard I tried. I took it to my local gunsmith. He said the chamber isn't cut right and I should send it back to Marlin. I figure Marlin messed it up the first time, why should I trust them again. Thinking about sending it to Wild West Guns in Alaska since they have a great reputation for turning junk marlins into awesome guns.

What do you think, send it back to Marlin, or a good gunsmith to recut the chamber?

[btroj]

Well, Marlin will fix it at no charge, a gunsmith isn't going to do that.

[Dave Bulla]

I bought my first Marlin a few weeks ago. It was used but a beautiful 30/30, about 3 years old. The wood grain is really good and what sold me on it. I have just barely finished the first box of 20 rounds through it. Every 3rd or 4th round was very hard to eject. Finally it jammed up so bad that I couldn't get the case out of the chamber no matter how hard I tried. I took it to my local gunsmith. He said the chamber isn't cut right and I should send it back to Marlin. I figure Marlin messed it up the first time, why should I trust them again. Thinking about sending it to Wild West Guns in Alaska since they have a great reputation for turning junk marlins into awesome guns.

What do you think, send it back to Marlin, or a good gunsmith to recut the chamber?

There ya go.

That's a really typical scenario. Guy buys a rifle and has issues. Takes it to a gunsmith and finds out that something was not done correctly at the factory. Now he has to decide if he should have it fixed on his own dime in a reasonable amount of time and in a place where he can talk to the guy doing the work personally (local gunsmith) or should he send it back to the factory where it was screwed up in the first place. With most companies, I'd have no issue with sending it back other than I don't like mailing my guns all over the country and having to wait a long time to get them back. But now, say the same fella starts to do some internet searching and starts finding a LOT of people griping about similar problems AND about poor customer service? Guys who send a rifle in with detailed comments about what it is doing wrong. They wait weeks to get it back and then find that NOTHING has been fixed. This seems to happen quite a bit. The other gripe is that stuff gets fixed but other things get messed up along the way or that the quality of the fix is poor.

I'm pretty heavy into Marlins and frequent several message boards and the number of people that have had problems in recent years has been incredible. Sure maybe some of them exaggerate things a little but you can usually tell when that's going on. I find it is far easier to focus on buying Marlins that were made before the takeover and not worry much about any mechanical problems than it is to pay more $$$ for a new rifle and be scared it will have issues. And for those of you who say you have to check the gun out well before you buy all I have to say is, don't forget that many stores like Walmart and maybe even Dicks simply will NOT let you remove the lock and cycle the action before you buy a gun. There is only so much you can check visually from the outside.

[FergusonTO35]

You can send the rifle to Williams Gunsight for repair. They are a warranty service provider for Marlin, Remington, and many other makes. They do really good work too.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK guys; I talked to the Marlin Rep at the SHOT Show for 45 minutes.

Marlin is not out of business and is running full tilt.

When the company was bought out ALL the employees were offered jobs in Illion NY, which is a 45 minute drive from the old plant in CT. Exactly one guy made the move! And luckily he was one of the Production Engineers.

Remington completely revamped the process of making the leverguns. They are now made mostly on CNC Machining Centers, and the vast majority of older tooling was either retired in favor of CNC processes or re engineered, and since most of the existing tooling was badly outdated or worn out this was a good thing.

I am very familiar with Marlin Leverguns and I own 5 of them. I am also a highly skilled machinist and toolmaker and I do all work on my Marlin Rifles. I know what I am looking at with respect to Machining Quality, and form, fit, and function.

I am here to tell you that the guns they are producing now are as good or better than the best ever made at the old Marlin factory, and as long as they don't get upset too badly by the Cerberus dump, within 6 months they will be alot better than what is being produced today. They even purchased their existing wood supplier, and the wood on the guns I saw at the show was a cut above the strait grained fence post grade walnut they have been using.

The bad part is that the entire Freedom Group is up for sale, and the bad part of that is that pretty much all of the Freedom Group's Production is under one roof at Illion and the different brands share alot of the same machinery.

I was told this by Brian Pearce, and the word was,,, Cerberus would sell all of the group or individual companies, or piece out the entire operation at auction.

If someone comes in a buys up just Marlin they will get some machinery and drawings and some inventory and then be told to have all of their assests removed to the NEW home of their choice immediately.

In other words it would take a long time for anyone to restart the brand.

The really bad thing is that to Cerberus, these companies are worth literally pocket change to them. They supposedly have made up their minds to do this apparently motivated by the National Teachers Union, and several other Large State Union Pension Funds. They would lose the largest amount of equity by auctioning the brands off piece by piece, and in doing so they would completely decimate the brands forever, which is exactly what the people involved want.

This is how Democrats work, take notice.

I think that someone big will buy the whole show before that happens. They will probably get a bargain in the process. I only hope the losses are passed on to the Union members directly.

Randy

[TXGunNut]

Thanks for the report, Randy. It seems the rumor mill is alive and well again. I agree that best case scenario is a package deal but wonder who would be interested in something like that. Could be very good for everyone involved if the right deal falls into place.

[btroj]

Rumor mill? On the net? Imagine that.

Randy, thanks for a report from a reliable source.

[saint_iverson]

Good to hear from a first hand source! thank you for the post

[FergusonTO35]

I read somewhere that Freedom Group was in talks to sell the Bushmaster brand and equipment to someone in Montana. That would seem like a smart move for both of them.

[KYCaster]

I saw a new Marlin XT .22 at a shop today. Very pretty rifle with a laminate stock. The action was a little tight and will probably break in over time. It looked as good as any of the CT guns I've seen and best of all, it was made in Kentucky.8-)


Made in KY? I didn't know they did any manufacturing here? Where is the plant?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Jerry

[Ed in North Texas]

snip

Bottom line, don't let me sway you but keep the info in the back of your mind and next time you happen to go to a good sporting goods store with a nice selection of new and used Marlins, do your own side by side comparison. SNIP

Let's see - you want someone to compare a brand new, not broken in rifle with one that is most likely not brand new and is broken in. Why, it might even have had the action worked over - as working the action over on Marlins was a popular thing to do long before Remington bought the company. Yeah, don't let you sway him.

The quality of Marlins was reported to be way, way down as the employees in CT knew they were losing their jobs long before the move to NY. That isn't surprising. And it isn't surprising that the initial Remington quality was not up to snuff. Do we all clamor to be the first to buy the first month's production of a brand new to the line car? Or do we wait for the bugs to be worked out of production?

As for the outrageous price of a used rifle in Cabellas - how can you view that as a ding on Remington? There isn't even an MSRP on used merchandise. As for prices in general, I refuse to buy a car which costs more than my house. I don't have much of a choice in new cars any longer. My current new to me used Super Duty cost more than twice the price of our first house. We bought the house in 1967 and it wasn't new. The house is still there, the truck won't last anywhere near that long. The rifle's price is a bargain, it will outlast that house with average care. As for possible longevity of firearms, my oldest rifle is a Snider conversion of an 1861 Enfield rifled cavalry carbine.

[Dave Bulla]

Okay, I'll bite one last time...


Let's see - you want someone to compare a brand new, not broken in rifle with one that is most likely not brand new and is broken in. Why, it might even have had the action worked over - as working the action over on Marlins was a popular thing to do long before Remington bought the company. Yeah, don't let you sway him.

On the actions, you are dead right that a new Marlin usually requires a break in period and feels stiffer than one that's been shot a bunch so an older gun should cycle smoother. But they still ARE smoother and don't require a break in period which is a nice feature of a used Marlin in general. My main issues with the actions of new rifles are things like the somewhat common occurrence of ammo not feeding properly on new guns, guys finding metal shavings in the action, poor extraction etc. Things you can't check in the store because you can't load and cycle ammo before you buy the gun. There was just a guy on Marlinowners the other day asking for help with his new Marlin saying that the action was hanging up. After a couple questions, a former Marlin employee suggested he file a few thousandths off the end of the lever because it was probably hanging up on the top of the receiver. BAM, problem solved but just another example of a typical new gun issue that never should have happened.


The quality of Marlins was reported to be way, way down as the employees in CT knew they were losing their jobs long before the move to NY. That isn't surprising. And it isn't surprising that the initial Remington quality was not up to snuff. Do we all clamor to be the first to buy the first month's production of a brand new to the line car? Or do we wait for the bugs to be worked out of production?

Self explanatory and pretty much what I said except you feel crappy quality was to be expected and you're okay with that? I'm not, so I avoid Marlins from those years. Pretty simple.


As for the outrageous price of a used rifle in Cabellas - how can you view that as a ding on Remington? There isn't even an MSRP on used merchandise.

The rifle I mentioned specifically was a deluxe edition which is why it had the fancy wood and the high price tag. Traditionally, the deluxe guns were premium rifles with additional hand fitting and polishing. Deluxe wasn't just a marketing word to the old Marlin company, it's supposed to mean something. Like maybe a little better quality? The wood was beautiful but the front sight was rotated off at about 1 o'clock and I feel that even if the rifle was a standard quality rifle, there is no excuse for that. Also, when comparing old and new, you'll see that the level of shine/polish was better on the older guns, the stocks were shaped nicer and in many cases, the wood to metal fit was better. I have seen a significant improvement in the wood to metal fit area in the last year but I still don't like the new stock shapes at all.

As for the rumor mill, everything I've posted so far has either been from first hand experience or from trusted friends who actually worked at Marlin, lost their jobs and yes, several I know were NOT offered the chance to move. I don't have any skin in the game but like I said, I've got some good friends who did and they've got no reason to BS me. As for the comments from the rep, what do you expect, the truth about their quality issues? No company of any kind will usually admit when they have problems. For example, there was an article in one of the gun magazines a few months back. I think it was "Rifle" magazine and the author basically was spoon fed a bunch of marketing spin about how well the new Marlin brand was doing and said things about equipment from the old factory that simply wasn't true according to the guys who actually ran it and the engineers who set it up. It was all "positive spin" marketing jargon intended to boost buyer confidence and to make it sound like Remington really has their @h!t together and all the old Marlin ways of doing things were antiquated. Well, maybe so by modern "LEAN" manufacturing standards but I've got eyes and I can see the difference for myself. No, I'm not a machinist either but I am a career mechanic with an aviation and industrial background who puts things together for a living and who has worked assembly line processes for quite a few years so I know a thing or two about fit and finish, production line processes and ways companies simplify steps to make more money at the expense of quality.

If you are interested in hearing a little bit of comments from actual former Marlin employees and their side of the story, go to Marlinowners.com and search around a little bit. There are a couple guys who have a pic of the sign out front of the Connecticut factory as their avatar who have posted some well written comments about what went on during the transition.

I know it sounds like I'm bashing Remington and honestly, I am because I believe in telling the truth as I see it. However, I truly hope that they can turn things around and it slowly looks like things are getting better but they still have a ways to go and some things I'm sure will never be the same (like the stocks) but I really, really hope that some day soon I'll pick up a brand spanking new Marlin, look it over and say to myself, "Now THAT's a gun I'd buy!" It's just not quite there yet.

[salvadore]

Anecdotally speaking, I own the last run of the 94CL..maybe produced in 2004, purchased in 2006. Worked up loads casually for a few years, loading single rounds at the bench. Finally started loading up the magazine for casual shooting offhand and found I had a jamamatic. Everytime it was loaded from the magazine it jammed, lever down with no way to close unless taken apart. Sent it to Marlin about the time they were moving, got it back and still jammed. sent it back, went to another warranty repair guy, I think in Mo. no dice, couldn't fix the gun because he didn't have 32/20 cartridges. Sent back to Marlin. Got it back. If I squint my eyes and operate the lever in a dynamic manner and the weather is just right it does better. As a side note, I have shot a ten shot group @ 100yds with cast bullets into 2.5" with 8 of the rounds going into 1.25". I.O.

[FergusonTO35]

Made in KY? I didn't know they did any manufacturing here? Where is the plant?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Jerry

Yep, they are made alongside Remingtons at a fairly new plant in Mayfield, Graves County.

[KYCaster]

Yep, they are made alongside Remingtons at a fairly new plant in Mayfield, Graves County.


I learned something new today.

Thanks.
Jerry