Ideal 308241 for 30-30, .308 or .311?

[CGT80]

I have a sample boolit that I cast from the Ideal 308241. The alloy should be WW, but I can't verify it. It measures out at .3095"-.313", obviously it isn't all that round. I would like to make up some plinking loads for my grandfather's Winchester Model 94 30-30. It was made in 1973, according to the serial number. I thought about running 6.0 grains of Red Dot powder, as I have a bunch of it.

I have only .308 and .311 sizing dies for my RCBS LAM 1. I will be using White Label Lube Carnuaba Red. I am not looking for great groups and I will likely be shooting under 50 yards most of the time. I have heard that 30-30 bullets should be 1 thousandth over, which would put me at .309".

Should I run one of my dies or just go ahead and order a .309" sizing die?

Thanks

PS. I think I have two .308 sizing dies, I might be able to hone one to a larger size. I also have a Ideal 311413 mold which is a 169 grain GC boolit. What diameter would I need to load that for the 30-06, most likely for a Winchester Model 54 made in 1926? I also considered either of these bullets for the 30-06 over Red Dot for light plinking loads.

I have tried "The Load" with J words in the 30-06 and had great results for close range plinking. I figured cast boolits would be much cheaper-why waste my J words for close range plinking?

[Ben]

It is trial and error as to sizing.

Many 30-30 rifles do their best with .311 dia. cast .

Ben

[runfiverun]

i'd start with the 311.
that 30-30 might just surprise you with a good cast load.
back "the load" down to 8 grs and start there if this is a plain base boolit [which i think it is]

[HARRYMPOPE]

6g of R-Dot is a great load for that bullet.Much more is too hot for PB IMHO.If .311 chambers go for it but .309 had worked well for my 94's.You have to try it out to see.

[CGT80]

Thanks for the help guys. I cast a boat load of those RN bullets, tonight. I elevated my lee drip-o-matic a bit more so that I could see the spout better. Once I got the rhythm for cooing the mold on a wet rag and for adjusting the temp on the pot, I was able to get mostly shiny bullets that were filled out well, with no wrinkles, and no voids where the sprue was cut. I will need to clean up this mold a bit. It has some rust and the sprues were sticking. I also need to make myself order or build a PID for Mr. drippy.

I will make up a dummy round or two sized to .311 to see if that chambers easily. I read many different results when I looked up bullet size, but if .311 works for you guys, I feel confident in running them if they chamber. I just may make this 30-30 into an economical plinker. I had wanted a Rosi 45 colt or maybe a 38 spl. lever action, but my grandfather has let me use his rifle, so I might as well see what it will do.

Thanks again and happy casting.

[1Shirt]

As ben says, trial and error testing. IMO, as long as it will chamber, probably best to go large rather than small for best results.
1Shirt!

[Mk42gunner]

.311" is my first choice for .30 caliber rifles. Especially if I haven't bothered to slug the bore.

Robert

[CGT80]

Tonight I sized/lubed some of those 150 grain boolits. I tried the .311 size die. I did not see a name on the die and it looked slightly different than my RCBS dies. It had a slightly cupped pin that the boolit base rests on-I am guessing for a gas check. My pistol sizing dies are flat for PB boolits. I was able to get some sizing done, but it would be much better with a flat pin. I searched a bit on the net for rifle boolit PB dies, but didn't find anything yet. Do I need a different die, or maybe just a different insert? I will do more searching later. I also haven't used GC's yet, but I have a mold and checks to try them out. My dad used to load GC boolits.

I prepped some 30-30 brass with a spent primer and my boolit seated to the cannelure. I cycled a few through the Win 94 rifle. There was a little resistance when the handle was almost fully closed, but it wasn't hard to chamber the rounds. I just loaded another test round at 2.392" COAL and it chambered without any resistance. My boolits sized to roughly .3095". They dropped from the mold at .309" to .311, but were not completely round. The sizing die scrapped part of the sides of the bullet, but not all of the surface. I don't know if this will make a difference for what I will be doing with the load. Should I test fire these bullets over 6.0 grains of Red Dot, or do I need to be overly concerned with how easily these chamber?

I am going to make up a few test loads, and I might try them out tomorrow. I think this boolit will work how I have it set up (accuracy and leading could prove to be a different story-time will tell). I can always pull them if someone here thinks I am not good to go. I do have around 16 years of reloading experience, but I am always learning more and I am still a newbie at cast boolits compared to many/most here.
60765

[Ben]

runfiverun's suggestion of 8.0 grs. of Unique is a great place to start looking for any accurate load.

Plain base .30 cal. bullets ( under the correct conditions ) can be amazingly accurate out of .30 cal. barrels.

The correct OAL, the correct powder charge, the correct powder type, the correct cast bullet dia, the correct bullet seating technique, etc. can turn in some impressive results.

I fired the group below at 50 yards with metallic sights with my 1903 Springfield with metallic sights, chambered in 308 Win ( as a side note- - you can fire hundreds and hundreds of these through my Springfield and have a mirror bright bore after you pass 1 dry cotton patch through the bore ) :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Springfield%201903%20-%20308%20Win/IMG_0928.jpg

Here are 308241's , lubed, sized, and ready to load :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/308241/0032.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Photo0364.jpg

[45 2.1]

That's typical performance that Ben posted. On another note, if you cast them to about 8 BHN and freechec them, you can get in the 1900s with really good performance.

[Ben]

Tonight I sized/lubed some of those 150 grain boolits. I tried the .311 size die. I did not see a name on the die and it looked slightly different than my RCBS dies. It had a slightly cupped pin that the boolit base rests on-I am guessing for a gas check. My pistol sizing dies are flat for PB boolits. I was able to get some sizing done, but it would be much better with a flat pin. I searched a bit on the net for rifle boolit PB dies, but didn't find anything yet. Do I need a different die, or maybe just a different insert? I will do more searching later. I also haven't used GC's yet, but I have a mold and checks to try them out. My dad used to load GC boolits.

I prepped some 30-30 brass with a spent primer and my boolit seated to the cannelure. I cycled a few through the Win 94 rifle. There was a little resistance when the handle was almost fully closed, but it wasn't hard to chamber the rounds. I just loaded another test round at 2.392" COAL and it chambered without any resistance. My boolits sized to roughly .3095". They dropped from the mold at .309" to .311, but were not completely round. The sizing die scrapped part of the sides of the bullet, but not all of the surface. I don't know if this will make a difference for what I will be doing with the load. Should I test fire these bullets over 6.0 grains of Red Dot, or do I need to be overly concerned with how easily these chamber?

I am going to make up a few test loads, and I might try them out tomorrow. I think this boolit will work how I have it set up (accuracy and leading could prove to be a different story-time will tell). I can always pull them if someone here thinks I am not good to go. I do have around 16 years of reloading experience, but I am always learning more and I am still a newbie at cast boolits compared to many/most here.
60765


That looks like a very hard crimp . Any reason for the hard crimp ?

Ben

[Wayne Smith]

Looks too hard to me even for a lever action. Lighten up on the crimp and you are likely to have a more accurate load.

[Ben]

CGT80

If you have normal neck tension with 6.0 grs. of Red Dot, I doubt that you need any kind of crimp at all.

Ben

[CGT80]

I tried out those loads today. A few took some effort to chamber, but most worked well. I got a 3.25" 6 shot group at 30 yards resting on a bench. The rear sight does not go high enough to compensate for this load, so I am hitting a bit low and right with the adjustment maxed out. I am not a great rifle shooter, and those sights seem less than ideal. Others could probably get better groups. The recoil was great. It had a small thump, but was soft enough that a person could shoot hundreds of those in a day. It was a little harder than a 223 55 grain load. I will try not using a crimp on the next batch. I wasn't sure how tight the crimp should be. I am used to crimping 460 brass with my 270 SAA boolits and also jacketed. 5 shot group averaged 1116 fps with a SD of 12.6 and an ES of 34.0.

Hey Ben, Those bullets look purdy, and that group is great. It looks like I may have some work to do yet, but so far so go. I couldn't get a great look at the bore of the rifle, but what I did see looked pretty clean. I still have to clean it. I also had looked at the GC tools in the past. They sounded interesting, especially the one for PB bullets. It beats the heck out of the price that the suppliers want for pre-made copper gas checks. If I got the speed up, the sights might work. A 170 J word and a full power load of 4895 was right on for these sights, and that was on the lowest notch(I am at the highest notch and it still isn't enough).


Has anyone else noticed a somewhat foul smell from burning Red Dot powder? It was pretty evident when shooting the 30-30 and I have noticed it before when my dad shot his 1911 45 acp with lead bullets. I didn't notice it as much when shooting my 460 Mag with some 45LC loads which used it. Other powders have a certain scent to them, but Red Dot seems to be a bit rank. The powder smells normal in the powder can.

Thanks for all the input guys.

[Ben]

CGT80

Thanks for that nice comment !

You may have to install a lower front sight to correct for the low velocity of the cast rounds if you want your current rear sight to be able to center your groups at the distance you're shooting right now.

Ben