690 Round Ball in rifled barrel

[ihunts2much]

I shoot a lot of deer between nuisance permits and regular season. The price of sabots really chews at my wallet.I have been toying with this idea for a few years and finally got er done! I wanted to share my results. I cast some .690 balls from soft lead and did a bit of searching for appropriate load data. I settled on a fairly light 1 1/8 oz target load recipe with green dot powder. The velocity is listed at 1100 fps. My theory was to keep the velocity mild to get acceptable accuracy from a barrel twist that is too fast to really push a round ball. I don't have a chrono but I suspect the ball is traveling a good bit faster than the published recipe, or perhaps the ball is retaining the velocity better than a load of shot. I set the ball in a AA replacement wad, but thought it was a bit too tight when I test fit it through the Hastings barrel for my 870. I cut 2 opposing petals off and liked the fit through the bore. I loaded up 3 rounds and went to the range. At 50 yards I had 3 shots touching, and right at the point of aim! I rushed home and loaded up 3 more. This time I tried them at 100. 3 shots yielded a 6" wide horizontal string approximately 5" below point of aim. I will load and shoot a bit more, but this looks promising. I think I have a solid 75-80 yard deer killer that I can make for pennies a shot. There is no sight adjustment needed to interchange these and the sabots in my barrel. I can keep a RB chambered and if a deer comes by under 80 yds I can take it with the round ball. If one is out in a field at 80-150, if I want I can change over to a sabot and spend a few bucks.

[Green Lizzard]

i use same load except denem patch (old jeans)

[longbow]

I tried out some fairly hot loaded 0.735" round balls (ACWW) in a borrowed rifled Remington 870 and they shot into 2" at 50 yards. I was wondering if the fast twist of 1:36" would result in stripping but apparently not. I shot several five shot groups and all were about the same size. I also recovered one ball and it showed a nice band of rifling around the middle.

It is easier to load into a shotcup though and some thin petal shotcups fit the 0.690" balls. BPI lists a load using one of their shotcups and it seems to me that several people have said that Federal shotcups work with 0.690" balls. So far ever wad I have tried is a bit too tight with 0.690" but then I haven't tried the BPI or Federals. I am shooting smoothbore though.

Good that you have it working for you.

I have an older Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook with several loads for 0.690" round ball in it if you are interested.

Green Lizzard are you cutting petals off shotcups then patching the ball into the hull or are you using a hard card wad column?

Longbow

[Green Lizzard]

over powder bpi wad a shot cushion a hard card then patched ball

[longbow]

Okay, thanks.

I was curious. So far I have had good results with smaller balls in shotcups but not with 0.690" or with 0.735" on cushion leg with petals cut off. I have gotten best results with the heavier balls on hard card wad columns with an over powder gas seal.

That patch makes the jump through the forcing cone alright I am guessing? Seems like it shouldn't, but you aren't the only one who has posted good results using patched ball in a hull. I will have to try that.

Longbow

[725]

ihunts2much -
Roll crimp or star crimp? Over-all length?

[ihunts2much]

725- I am using once fired 2 3/4 inch Remington hulls, star crimp.

[longbow]

Take a look for TRG3's posts. He is using a 0.690" ball in shotcup with good results. I think he posted them.

[TRG3]

Yes, I've gotten very good results with a cast soft lead .690 roundball using a new Fiocchi 2 3/4" hull, 27 grains of Herco, overpowder card, Federal S3 wad with a 20 gauge hardcard in the base on which the roundball rests, and roll crimped. I also roll the roundball in an effort to reduce the sprue and try to load it in the up position. For me, I only used this load in my H&R USH 12 gauge which has a rifled barrel. Three-shot one-inch groups at 50 yards was not unusual. I seldom lost a petal from the S3 wad. The USH is a heavy shotgun and the recoil is mild compared to factory loads. At 50 yards this season I took two does, one broadside in which the roundball passed through just behind the shoulder and the other which was quartering to me and hit between the front shoulder and neck with the roundball stopping in a hind quarter, still retaining it's shape. While both deer dropped in their tracks, I've also made similar broadside shots and have had the deer travel 50-75 yards with a minimal blood trail. Years of hunting with a flintlock has taught me that a roundball, while deadly, may not drop deer in their tracks and you sometimes just have to have faith that you made a good shot and start slowly walking in the direction the deer went after the shot. I have not tried this load beyond 50 yards and need to do so since shots at 80-100 yards do present themselves at times and I'm sure there would need to be some hold over for those longer shots. I also have not tried it in a smoothbore, so there's still some things to be worked out before next deer season. I'm suspecting that my Herco load and your powder load may be similar in pushing the .690 roundball at 1100-1200 fsp, so I'd be interested in your results at the longer distances.

[LUTNIT]

With the cloth patches, is there any lube on them? I searched around and I can't find anyone talking about dry vs. lubed patches. I have seen "prelubed" cotton patches for sale for muzzle loaders before so I was wondering if it is really required or not. Would a smooth barrel vs. a rifled barrel make a difference?

[Green Lizzard]

i use patches cut from old jeans with olive oil, push ball and patch flush to case mouth snip of excess with sissors then seat on hard card

[curator]

I load similar to Green Lizard but a .735 round ball made from ACWW and patched with .020 pillow ticking lightly lubed with Balistol. Good 50 yard accuracy using 25 grains of Unique, 2- OP cards, and a 3/8 cushion wad. Recovered patches show no "burn-through" like I got using the .690 balls.

[longbow]

curator:

Are you loading for 10 ga.? That would be a real tight fit into a 12 ga. with 0.735" ball and 0.040" of patching!

Longbow

[curator]

curator:

Are you loading for 10 ga.? That would be a real tight fit into a 12 ga. with 0.735" ball and 0.040" of patching!

Longbow

Not 10 gauge, rifled 12 gauge made for 3" shells. (H&R Handi-rifle) The .735 patched ball is smaller than the forcing cone and takes the rifling better than a smaller size. Recovered balls show only a small ring around their circumference with rifling. Chamber pressure appears to be less than factory 3" slug loads. (Recoil too!) Since I single load them there is no crimp. I have been using 2 3/4" shells but am going to try 3" ones to see if I can get a bit more accuracy without the unguided flight from shell casing into the bore.

[longbow]

I have to say I am surprised that a patched 0.735" ball of ACWW doesn't cut the patch badly or cause high pressure.

I have shot naked 0.735" balls from a rifled Remington 870 and gotten good accuracy. Recovered balls were as you described with a narrow "belt" of rifling around the equator.

I have a couple of recovered balls from my smoothbore that show a slightly uneven "belt" which is likely due to a bit of rotation through the forcing cone ~ same issue you mention of 2 3/4" hulls in 3" chamber. I think the jump to forcing cone is the culprit.

So your recovered patches show good rifling and no cutting? While there isn't much lead to displace at the equator that is quite a squeeze down!

Longbow

[curator]

The pillow-ticking patches are found about 30 feet down range and could probably be reused except for a slight dark-shiny ring where they rode in the bore. The "bore" measurement on my rifled 12 gauge barrel is .730 (top of lands) .742 in the grooves. The patching material is sufficiently compressed in the grooves to get a good gas seal. Thinner patching showed burn-through and reduced accuracy. I wouldn't think of shooting this load through a bore with a choke.

[longbow]

That explains it then. With 0.742" grooves the the barrel is considerably larger than most. The Remington I shot was 0.727" groove (I slugged it) and my understanding is that most barrels range from about 0.725" to 0.730" groove diameter based on what I have read and what others have posted.

That makes me wonder now about TRG3's success with 0.690" round ball in shotcup in his rifled USH. I will have to ask him what groove diameter it has. I was assuming somewhere around 0.725"/0.727". Maybe larger!

I always got pinched petals in my smoothbores when I tried 0.690" balls but they run 0.729"/0.730" bore (cylinder) and every wad I have tried ranged from bit tight to way too tight. With that large groove diameter there is room for petals to go without getting squished and pinched.

Makes sense now. Goes to show that one shouldn't assume. I am glad I asked.

Thanks,
Longbow