Start ladle casting

[Irascible]

I started out with a 10lb Lyman pot and ladle and a camp stove, very annoying. The next day I went and bought an RCBS bottom pour pot for $90 which was a little more than the Lyman, but was said to have a better thermostat. That was 35 years ago!
Now, after all these years I want to try the ladle again. I got into BPCR silhouette and Schutzen and everybody tells me I'll get better bullets by ladle pouring them? So, I'm going to try. The question I have is what size hole in the ladle is best for what caliber bullet? I still have my old Lyman ladle so if I should drill it out I will. If I need two different hole sizes, I'll by another ladle. So, what size drills, if they're even needed?

[mdi]

I've found that "everybody" don't know what they are talking about a lot of the time. What caliber are your guns? How big are the bullets?Since you have experience casting with a bottom pour, go ahead and cast up a bunch and see if you can make good bullets (unlike "everybody"), I'll bet you can! My experience may not apply 'cause the biggest bullet I've cast is only 300 gr. and I have no probs bottom pouring those...

[montana_charlie]

The question I have is what size hole in the ladle is best for what caliber bullet?
My largest .45 caliber BPCR bullet weighs 560 grains.
I am very critical when culling bullets, and my keeper rate is still probably better than 80%.
I pour them with an unmodified Lyman dipper, and have plenty of 'extra' alloy to make a big sprue puddle.

CM

[runfiverun]

imo:
you can make good boolits with a bottom pour untill you get over about 425-450 grs and then the ladle seems to do a better job of making quality boolits.
you don't need a ladle hole really any bigger than your sprue hole and
a consistent amount of alloy in the ladle will help too.

[44man]

I have ladle cast all my life and will never stop.
I did open the ladle hole a few thousandths and it works for any boolit but most important is to keep the hole open and clean. I wipe the nose with a cotton rag now and then and tap the top of the ladle on my vise now and then to jar junk from the hole.

[Old Caster]

44 man, I think what you just said about tapping your ladle on a vice is exactly why ladle casting is more consistant. When alloy is going through a bottom pour, the hole is fairly small and long which allows crud to stick to the inside of it and eventually go through into the mold and possibly inside the bullet. If bottom pouring, you can go slower with the flow so the crud that breaks free will float out but depending on bullet size that might not work out well because fillout can suffer when going slow. You can then change to pressure pouring with the mold tight to the bottom pour spout but you still won't get the degree of quality that ladle offers because when pressure pouring slowly the spout can clog up easily and you have to be very consistant with alloy level so the pressure stays the same which requires a seperate pot to add alloy often. If the flow changes without you knowing it, the bullet can change. With a ladle it never changes without being very obvious which is why it tends to give fewer rejects. Bear in mind that when just looking at a bullet, especially a large and heavy one, there is no way to decide by weight whether there is dirt inside or if there is no dirt but is just a few 10 thousandths smaller everywhere making it the same weight as one with dirt inside it. The ladle just stays cleaner and I think it is because of the active stiring and knocking the dirt off the ladle. You might consider a Waage pot if you want to ladle pour as their thermostats are very precise and they aren't real expensive either. Also my Waage pot will go to 800 degrees which is the temoperature that I ladle cast large bullets and my RCBS will only go to 740. Make sure you get with the guys that are successful shooting BPCR and ask questions so you don't have to learn the hard and long way. I don't know which ladle would be the best as I use a home made one.

[Bullshop]

To every problem there is a solution.

[stubshaft]

FWIW - I opened the spout on my RCBS ladle with a 3/32" drill bit, and shortened the handle about 3" to give me more control with it. I did this about 18-20 years ago and never looked back. I also cast alot of boolits that weigh in excess of 500grs.

Not saying that it is better than bottom pouring but it works better for ME.

[44man]

That is what I found when trying BP. I have tried for years. I start with some decent boolits then it goes downhill. I was always picking at the spout.
I just plugged the hole with a tapered brass plug from inside and took the junk off the top of the pots.
I have cast from .22's to 560 gr boolits with a ladle without any rejects. I can make 50 to 100 more perfect boolits in the time spent fooling with the BP.
Never flux or stir with a ladle, keep the nose out of the lead. Use a spoon with a long wood handle.
A pot except for some production models will not have a heating element in the bottom so lead is cooler at the spout. There is a pile of crud that stays at the bottom, it does not float. You will see it all if you pour the lead out to change alloy.

[pdawg_shooter]

I have 3 bottom pour pots, all plugged. I ALWAYS get better bullets with a ladle.

[Irascible]

Interesting, when using the BP pot, my bullets get better as I cast!
Most of my casting is for the revolvers with a few Contender calibers in 35 and 454 and some rifle calibers 25-20, 32 Spcl, 38-55 and 45-70. I am interested in ladle casting for my BPCR which is 40-65 with 410gr bullets and my Schutzen riles which are 32-40 Improved (200 gr) and a 30 caliber (180 gr)from a 32 H&R mag case.

[Old Caster]

Irascible, Are you intending to also shoot black powder for these loads.

[Irascible]

For the 40-65 I will be using BP only with 25 to 1 alloy. The 32-40 Imp currently uses 300MP, The 32 H&R currently uses AA #9 I am still messing with alloys for these two, currently using 50/50 ww/lead, but just cast some 16/1 for trial

[fcvan]

I read an article back in the 80s where the guy was casting long 30 cal boolits with a ladle. The author said he would pour from the ladle onto the sprue plate causing the alloy to swirl and fill evenly. I tried that with a Lyman ladle but found I could cast more consistently with my Lee 10lb bottom pour. For the past 25 years I have been pouring from the bottom onto the sprue plate between two cavities. I can fill two cavities up to 300 grains (Lee C452-300 RF) but couldn't with the Lee 501-440 RF, that one has to be poured one at a time. It seems that pouring onto the sprue plate helps me drop consistent and well filled out boolits.

[rintinglen]

Heavy boolits work better with a ladle, but on lighter boolits, especially on multi-cavity pistol molds, I'm calling shennannigans on some of the folks here. 6 cavity Lee molds?
Yeah, right. Bottom pour is the only way to fly on multi cavity small molds. And not a bad way to go for any mold.

[mpmarty]

The only use I've found for my Lyman ladle is to stir the pot. I've tried ladle pouring and gave up after 99% rejects and tired wrists. Bottom pour melters are sold for a reason.

[44man]

Heavy boolits work better with a ladle, but on lighter boolits, especially on multi-cavity pistol molds, I'm calling shennannigans on some of the folks here. 6 cavity Lee molds?
Yeah, right. Bottom pour is the only way to fly on multi cavity small molds. And not a bad way to go for any mold.
That is why all my molds are single or double cavity! Most times I use two molds at the same time.
I just never mastered the BP, many of you did.

[bear67]

Been ladle pouring (same ladle) since 1959 and just last week got a Lee 20 # bottom pour pot and tried it out. Takes some getting used to, but I think less fatigue in my old shaky hands and arms with the bottom pour--the jury is still out. I do want to machine a better guide for the blocks to set on to fill 6 cavity blocks. Making modifications to equipment is a habit of mine. I cast with cast iron pot on propane burner for first 30 years, so technology is sneaking up on me.

At this point in my life, I don't even buy green bananas, so I don't need to cast all day long or make 3000 200 g .45l's in a day.

[Old Caster]

Irascible, For the 40/65 with black, use only lead tin alloy. No matter what you use, it will lead the barrel a bit with black powder and if you have antimony in the mix it is more difficult to get it out of the barrel. You don't want to take a chance on having some alloy cover any black overnight because rust will have already started. A lot of we BPCR shooters have experimented with this and all have gone back to no antimony and a mix anywhere from 40 - 1 to 20-1 lead to tin.

Some people use an over the powder vegetable card and some don't. I haven't found any difference. Putting the powder in the case is where the difference comes in. If you use Swiss, the only thing that matters is that you compress the powder just enough to be sure there is no void. All the rest of the black powders need more compression in the neighborhood of .080 of an inch. All powders except Swiss also need to be poured into the case very slowly, maybe 10 seconds so the cases will fill to the same height. A drop tube will help a bit but the pour time is much more important and it will be easy for you to recognize this by column height.

I made a device that has a funnel on the top and has a tube out the bottom where I can install interchangable inserts of a different diameter hole that will vibrate when a button is pushed. This way, the pour speed is identical each time. Some weigh and some use a Lyman 55 or other powder dropper. Doubt if it matters.

If you use Pyrodex, which is an advantage because a blow tube is not then necessary, it is even more important how consistantly slow you pour it in and it must be compressed very closely to .180. Most people won't use Pyrodex because it is pretty inaccurate unless you follow what I just wrote. If you just dump Pyrodex in a case fast, the column height might be more than a 1/4 inch difference than pouring slow which will then give different compression.

Some people using black have gone to shoving a wet patch down the bore between each shot in a match just to avoid a blow tube and they feel it is more consistant but you have to have all your ducks in a row to do that because time is short in a match.

How closely a bullet should be to the rifling is something you will have to experiment with for yourself because every one does it differently with different bullets. I liked to touch the rifling enough that if you pulled the cartridge out the bullet would stay in if it is possible to position them that way.

Lastly, when you ladle cast your bullets, turn the mold sideways and press your ladle tight to the mold and then tip it up. When you feel it is full and a couple more seconds keep the mold level and tip the ladle away allowing the sprue puddle to cover the hole. Then talk to a lot of guys, especially the ones who are known experimenters in your BPCR group and are racking up good scores to see what they do.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Irascible,

I have not read all of the posts above, but am a years long ladle caster.

One reason is the BP pour pots have not worked out well for me, and the main reason is there are no BP pots that will keep up with my casting rate.

Other then when casting for my 45/70, I like to team cast with a partner, and we run 4 - 5 multi cavity molds at one time, one person pouring and the other opening.

Because of our high production rate, I need a big pot and lots of heat.

Then as to your question of ladle.

Forget trying to make the side pour Lyman or RCBS ladles what they aren't, and check out the Rowell bottom pour ladles on the web.

Have used one for years, and it is without question the very best ladle I have ever used.

They come in many sizes, clear up to those needing two men to lift and pour.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Threepersons]

Never owned a BP. I've cast a couple of tons of lead with a ladle.
a gas stove and a cast iron pot. Use two molds and production is
up to about 350 an hour. Mybe some day I'll try a BD pour,
but It will have to be at least a 20 lb. unit.