mosin m44?

[8mm Mauser]

I have been searching for a mosin nagant m44 carbine for a few days now and so far have found nothing. Does anybody know where I can find an m44 for a reasonable price? It doesnt matter to me if its russian or not. Thanks for the help.

[Jack Stanley]

Last summer , On Target in Kalamazoo had a pile of Russian zip guns . Mostly 91/30 and M38 but there were a few M44 carbines tucked into the mix . I don't know the phone number but you can google it or one of the fellas downstream might have it . As I recall the price for the stubby guns was two hundred fifty bucks and for the most part they were all clean like they'd been taken out of reserve or something .

Jack

[8mm Mauser]

Hmm, sounds very interesting. I saw a chinese type 53 version on impactguns.com and it seems reasonable for 169 dollars. And is this carbine worth the money? Its just a little strange that such an old gun is so cheap. Thank you for any further input.

[TNsailorman]

Widener's in Johnson City, Tennessee has a new shipment of M44 Moisen Nagant carbines in right now and the price is $209.00. Might want to take a look at them at www.wideners.com and decide for yourself. No, I am not affiliated with them, only buy occassionally from them. james

[8mm Mauser]

Widener's site seems to be a very good deal. Even for 209 bucks, it would make a great plinker and survivalist rifle. I will mention that website to my father in the morning. I just hope that the supply does not run out because of this weapons ban as of now.

[8mm Mauser]

I think Widener's is the way to go

[leadhead]

I think you'll find the chinese type 53's are beat to hell with very poor bores.
Denny

[8mm Mauser]

I have noticed that there are still some Russian models available but supply is dwindling. But I am just going to keep my head high and keep searching.

[Combat Diver]

Southern Ohio Guns still has some of the M53s for $99 if you have a C&R. They are out of stock on the Russian M44s, normally $229.


CD

[8mm Mauser]

Thanks for all the help guys but I just can't seem to find a good m44 or any C&R rifle for that matter anymore. Any further help will be appreciated but I dont think I'm going to specifically look for them anymore. Maybe I'll get lucky one day and stumble upon one but that is unlikely.

[Artful]

http://www.armslist.com/posts/345096/dayton-ohio-rifles-for-sale--mosin-nagant-m44-rifle-with-accessories

[390ish]

I think you'll find the chinese type 53's are beat to hell with very poor bores.
Denny

I bought two of the Type 53 rifles. One was hand-picked and great. The other was not hand-picked and it looked like it had been left out on the tundra for the past 40 years. Bores in both were fine. Heavy cosmoline in the wood. Lots of time with the hair dryer. A buddy also got a hand picked one and it looked nice inside the bore. Buttstocks on all are discolored and kind ratty, like they were dipped in paint thinner and never wiped off. These are better rifles internally than previous imports. I got mine from SOG. Glad on each of the purchases. Have not shot any of the yet. The ugly I have is so ugly it is pretty. Going to be my trunk gun. Need a scabbard and sling.

[8mm Mauser]

I do like those prices on armslist but I have a severly limited income so 250 dollars is a bit pricey for my budget. If I can find a job this summer then I will be able to afford more guns

[I'll Make Mine]

I've read a couple times recently that arsenal stock of Russian Mosins (all models) is about to the bottom of the barrel; I doubt we'll see them under $150 again by the time the current panic buying frenzy (on everything, not just surplus) eases. On the bright side, if the surplus stock is drying up, that means there are literally millions of the rifles now in private hands; they'll come up on the "used" market with the cosmoline cleaned off and the bores rusting (which, even if pretty bad, can be improved by shooting paper patch and/or fire lapping), though prices are likely to run upward from $200.

I don't know anything about the Chinese ones -- if they were arsenal refurbished and stored before being sold off as surplus, they might be as good as most of the Russian ones, but if they were taken straight out of service, they might well be pretty ugly.

[8mm Mauser]

I am starting to consider the armslist deal. Has anybody ever done deals with them? And if so, how is their customer service and do they sell good products? Thank you all for any input or advice.

[Artful]

I don't know anything about the Chinese ones -- if they were arsenal refurbished and stored before being sold off as surplus, they might be as good as most of the Russian ones, but if they were taken straight out of service, they might well be pretty ugly.

http://www.impactguns.com/chinese-type-53-rifle-licensed-version-of-the-mosin-44-762x54r-good-condition-type53-g-787450079762.aspx
$169.99



History and background:

In the early 1950's the People's Republic of China decided there was a need to develop a carbine for issue to the People's Army. The Chinese looked to their new friends to the North, the Soviet Union, for assistance in the matter. As the doctrine of the "Human Wave" was shared by both nations, a bayonet would be an essential item on any carbine to be issued. The Soviet Union of course offered the Model 1944 Carbine as a logical solution . The Soviets were in production of the SKS at the time, but they did not want to share this new development with the Chinese. It is thought that Soviet machinery was sent to China for commencement of Type 53 production. The facts also seem to suggest this was also done in Eastern Europe as the Model 1944 Carbine production also began in Poland, Hungary, and Romania during the same time frame. The movement of the Soviet machinery allowed the Chinese to produce the Type 53 independently, which was important to both Chinese national pride and the self-sufficiency of China. This also allowed the Soviets to aid their Chinese ally without giving away a large amount of weapons technology.



Chinese production of the carbine began in 1953 and the designation of this new carbine was the Type 53 . The early proofs on the barrel shank of the Type 53 will have both Chinese characters and the number 26 or 296. The Chinese characters translate to " 53 Year Type " and the 26 or 296 are the stamping of the State Factory at Chongqing. In many later production Type 53's the Chinese characters are not present but it is not known why the characters were dropped. The shank proofs also became larger in 1960 but again the reason for this action is not entirely clear.

The production numbers of the Type 53 Carbine are unknown at this point and it is doubtful they will be known in the near future. The closed nature of China and icy relations with the West have and will prevent the release of this information. It is assumed that the production numbers are rather high as the production run did not end until 1960 or 1961. In his fine book, The Mosin Nagant Rifle, Terence Lapin raises the possibility these were produced after 1961 and in fact I do know of one confirmed Vietnam bringback dated 1961. This carbine had been "jungle" modified in a number of regards and even had an SKS bayonet attached. While this does prove that production was later than 1960 it does not prove when the production came to an end.
http://www.impactguns.com/Data/Default/Images/uploads/darin_picures/Surplus_guns/chinesecondition1.jpg
http://www.impactguns.com/Data/Default/Images/uploads/darin_picures/Surplus_guns/chinesecondition2.jpg
http://www.impactguns.com/Data/Default/Images/uploads/darin_picures/Surplus_guns/chinesecondition3.jpg

http://www.mosinnagant.net/global%20mosin%20nagants/Chinese-T53Carbine.asp


Conclusion

While the Type 53 has never really caught on in the collecting circles, there is no fault that can be found in the carbine itself. The Type 53 will hold its own in quality with most of the M44 clones, with the possible exception of the Polish M44. The Russian M44 and the Type 53 are also very close in overall quality, but the Soviet made carbines may be a bit better in overall fit and finish. Many US collectors have made the comparison of the Type 53 to the Chinese made SKS and the MAK 90's v.s. the Soviet made versions of these weapons. While the Soviet made versions may be a bit better overall, the Chinese made rifles/carbines are made to hold up to the rigors of warfare. There may indeed be a drop off in finish but the Type 53 is no slouch either. If one can find a Type 53 in VG or better condition, one will see little difference when compared to the other M44's. The trick may well be to find a Type 53 in VG or better condition, as many of these have seen a lot of use. This use is a testament to their durability and quality.



The overall accuracy of the Type 53 is in line with the other M44's on the market. Some are excellent shooters while some are truly horrible. This is not just the case with the Type 53 but all the M44 carbines ( really all surplus firearms in general ). Because of this it is impossible to make blanket statements on accuracy. Maybe the buyer will get lucky and get a "tack-driver" and maybe the buyer won't. The Type 53, like all the M44's, are fun to shoot IF one can tolerate a rather heavy amount of recoil.

The Type 53 may well be the best bargain of the M44 Carbine types on the collector's market, as in most case $100 is the high end of price. It is indeed a lot of carbine for the money and really belongs in any Mosin Nagant collection. The black-eye that it has received in many circles is undeserved and this can work to the collector's advantage. Ignore the bogus information and the collector can make out like a bandit.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/7-GM53 $179.93
http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/bgprod/7-GM53.jpg


Century Arms Chinese Type 53 Carbine Bolt Action Rifle 7.62x54R 20.25" Barrel Length 5 Round Capacity Hardwood Stock Blued Finish Good Condition
Manufacturer: Century International Arms RI1968-G
Item: 7-GM53
UPC: 787450077997

Century once again offers you rare examples of Sino-Soviet cooperation from a bygone era! The Type 53 is a copy of the famous Russian M44 carbine, and like its predecessor is chambered in 7.62x54R. Century Arms was able to locate a cache of these carbines where they have been conserved for decades just waiting to be re-issued. Needless to say - these won't be around forever. If you are a collector of Mosin-Nagants, this is a fantastic opportunity to add a hard to find carbine to your collection. Condition: Good used

Specifications and Features:
Century Arms Chinese Type 53 Carbine Bolt Action Rifle
7.62x54R
20.25" Barrel
5 Round Capacity
Hardwood Stock
Blued Finish
Overall: 40"
Weighs 9 lbs

Note:This rifle is used surplus and condition may vary. By purchasing this gun you accept you will receive a used gun graded in good condition by Century Arms. No choice or handpicking. Guns can not be returned for any reason. We do not ship to C&R license holders.

If it was me I'd buy a couple from Southern Ohio Guns for $99 through a dealer - pick the best one and sell the other at markup to help pay for mine.

And remember unless your collecting - you can always bubba it - refinish and remake it your way
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/0612112302.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P67D09EC_g

[8mm Mauser]

I'm not buyin it for collection. I just like the curio and relic styles. I just want an accurate shooter that looks nice. Because if you think about it, mosin nagants are the only type of gun in the entire world that has that has and ever will have that style. Same with any other gun, new or old.

[Artful]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYQ4lQ2GUno

[richhodg66]

My son just had to have one of these and suddenly I found them a lot harder to find than when I wasn't looking for one.

Found a Chinese one in a gun show in Texas for $159.95. The stock was real beat up and the importer had a big ugly stamp on the reciever. Lucked out and found a nice stock for one (with bayonet) at another gun show so that took care of the ugly stock. The bore of this rifle is in real nice shape. I'm gonna get it sent off to him this week, I haven't shot it, but my full length Mosins have shot well.

Anyone need a stock set for one of these that could use a little TLC buit oughta make a serviceable stock?

[8mm Mauser]

I plan to refinish the stock anyway. It will still have some sort of collector value ( I would think) even if I do refinish it because it is still an old peice of history. Just not fully original

[Combat Diver]

Allan's Armory just got some in on a estate sale. Hurry they don't last.

http://www.allans-armory.com/aaresult.php?PageId=42


CD

[8mm Mauser]

I am trying to hurry but my dad and our FFL dealer got in a mix up with weideners just recently so we have to get that all taken care of before we move on. I'm sure any mosins I have had my eye on will be gone I'm the next few days

[nwellons]

I plan to refinish the stock anyway. It will still have some sort of collector value ( I would think) even if I do refinish it because it is still an old peice of history. Just not fully original

I have been collecting Mosins since early 2008 and am active in Mosin collector forums. Refinishing a stock always lowers the value. From only a small amount on a common version to hundreds of dollars on a rarer one. Often it is hard to tell the common models from the rare.

If you want to collect, clean the stock with a clean cotton rag and don't use anything to chemically clean or "protect" it. I have learned the hard way myself and ruined two early Mosins by what I thought was improving the stock finish.

[WineMan]

If you are patient, a Polish M44 is worth the wait. They are usually in pristine shape, and the bluing is second to none with a nice purple tinge to it. Here is a nice link:

http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM44P.htm

Dave

[tgator]

If you get one from Widener's I would like to see a pic. I got one of the first batch, has laminated stock and arsenal re- blue. Barrel looks new. Curious if this batch is as nice.


tim

[Ed in North Texas]

Widener's is out right now. And Allan only has the one Polish M44 left. He who hesitates is lost on these. Bought one of the M-44s from Wideners a while back, when it came it it was so nice I went back to order another - all gone. Now they've had some more (and only $9 more) and they're out again.

[8mm Mauser]

Its really starting to seem likr a waste of time chasing these mosins. Every single place I have looked, by the time my dad sends an email to an FFL holder, the place is all sold out. I dont know what it is but I have never in my life seen surplus rifles (especially mosins) disappear so fast. I may just have to wait until the assualt weapons scare goes away.

[wellfedirishman]

Allans armory still has one or two in stock. Allan is great to deal with.

[TreeKiller]

Call yourself or your dad order and pay for it. Than contact your FFL with your order # there Fax # and let him do the rest

[Dorado]

Man and to think that just a couple of years ago I bought 2 Russians for $75 each, got to pick them out, and both have good bores and wood. I hardly saw them in gun shows, and laughed at a price of over $100. Well, good luck. You'll need it.

[8mm Mauser]

Thanks for all the help guys but I think it will be much much easier if I go for a 91/30. I have seen a lot of those around and are pretty cheap compared to the m44.

[TNsailorman]

Lots of luck on the 91-30 also. Everything is drying up now.

[WILCO]

by the time my dad sends an email to an FFL holder, the place is all sold out.

Cut out your dad and call the FFL holder yourself. Unless it's an age of legality issue.

[8mm Mauser]

I guess I'm misunderstanding something in this here assault weapons ban. I only thought it would prevent the people from buying assault weapons, not obsolete bolt action surplus rifles. Mosin nagants have never been this hard to find. But the one time that I am considering on buying one, every single place I look doesnt have them

[Artful]

Panic Buying - no longer being able to afford what you wanted or can't afford ammo for it - you buy what you can afford ammo for.

When the last buying panic set off - just 4 short years ago - my how time flys between elections -
I had friends buying cases of 1080 of 5.45x39 russian ammo for $80 then buying whatever rifle they could find that would
take the ammo they owned. Of course at that time I was buying 7.62x54R for under $30 for 440 rounds.

[8mm Mauser]

My dad can make rounds for my yugo mauser for about 7 cents I think he said. And I originally wanted an sks but as soon as this scare started, I knew there was no way I was going to be able to get one.

[9.3X62AL]

This "Banic" is screwing up a lot of shooters' acquisition plans. I truly feel sorry for younger shooters trying to get started in the hobby at this time. You might be better served to save your hard-to-get dollars and put them toward a commercial bolt rifle like a Rem/Win/Ruger in 30-06 when you get the money scraped together. I don't think the AW ban has much traction, and the likely outcome will only be a strengthening of background checks for buyers--if that. Things will improve over time, once the knee-jerk buying craze subsides. We are becoming our own worst enemy, as far as panic buying is concerned.

As far as a M/N M-44 goes, I have one of Romanian heritage and it's a decent little truck carbine. It shoots cast boolits fairly well, and jacketed bullets of correct diameter (.312") into "minute-of-mule-deer" to 300 yards with its issue sights. It's a fun little rifle, but with full-tilt loads it is a BLASTY, NASTY CRITTER. Just sayin'.

[Artful]

As far as a M/N M-44 goes, I have one of Romanian heritage and it's a decent little truck carbine. It shoots cast boolits fairly well, and jacketed bullets of correct diameter (.312") into "minute-of-mule-deer" to 300 yards with its issue sights. It's a fun little rifle, but with full-tilt loads it is a BLASTY, NASTY CRITTER. Just sayin'.

That's why I modified the M38 to use my existing can, I was tired of my friends moving 3 benchs down or grabbing their beer bellies and making comments about their achy livers.

[8mm Mauser]

9.3x62cal- if you feel sorry for younger shooters getting into the hobby right now, that means you feel sorry for me because I am only 15 and have already gotten a bad impression on c&r collecting. My first c&r gun was a lot easier to aquire than trying to buy an m44

[Ed in North Texas]

9.3x62cal- if you feel sorry for younger shooters getting into the hobby right now, that means you feel sorry for me because I am only 15 and have already gotten a bad impression on c&r collecting. My first c&r gun was a lot easier to aquire than trying to buy an m44

Hang in there, things will improve. Right now, as others have said, there is a lot of panic buying of anything firearms related. Ammo has gone out of sight in price - when it can be found. The panic will slow down and end. I doubt prices will drop back to the levels they were a few years ago, but that is the normal progression of things. I bought an 1891 Argentine Cavalry Carbine for $16.00 at Montgomery Wards, my first M-98 was $8.00. Wards is gone and so is a price that low. My second Argentine Cavalry Carbine (a 1909) cost me $300.00.

[8mm Mauser]

Wow, if I could find a gun for that price, I would buy them by the crates. It would be a huge cash injection for your bank account if you had hundreds of rifles that you bought for 16 bucks and then sold them for 300 a peice. You are very lucky to have found a gun for that price

[Artful]

Inflation is an insidious thing, the exact same item over time takes more and more dollars to procure. It didn't really gain in value but the dollar lost it's strength as the government has to print more and more dollars to give out in programs authorized but not funded as we don't have that much of the peoples money going into the government to satisfy the needs of those getting the checks.

check out these prices to have an idea of what I'm talking about.
http://www.nma.org/pdf/gold/his_gold_prices.pdf

also look at the ad's in these Classic GUNS Magazine scans.
http://www.gunsmagazine.com/classic-guns-magazine-editions/

http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1962issues/G1262.pdf - check out page 11 for example
or page 34 or 35

Average (Median) Annual Wage for a Family in 1962 was $6,000.00 - Thats about $115.00 per week
Inflation-adjusted median household income in 2011 was $51,413 - That's about 988 per week
That also means that the same item's value in today's dollars would cost almost 9 times what it cost in 1962 dollars.
So that $100.00 rifle would now cost $856.00 just based on inflation. Of course this is an over simplification.
But you get the idea.

[richhodg66]

About 1992, just before I PCS'd to Alaska, I bought a pretty good Austrailian SMLE at a Rose's (chain store they have in the southeast) for $69.95. Only thing missing was the sling, otherwise original. not a perfect bore, but still a decent shooter.

If you compare that deal to the golden era of them being sold in Sears and Monty Wards in the late '50s and into the '60s and compare inflation rates, it was probably cheaper when I bought mine.

[Artful]

Prices vary for lots of conditions - supply and demand - the AR15 that sold for $600-$800 in 2008 is now going for what?
$1000 Colt 6920 going for $2k (Mal mart price still on it), $2000 LMT defender going for $5k. A bushmaster going for $2k (edit: $4k)

And last year I bought SMLE Mk4 No2 for $150 but lots shown for $250 at the same gun show.