45-70 Mold for Beginner Lead Chunker?

[350Gr]

What would I need in the way of a Mold and Lube/Sizer to start making my own Boolits for my 45-70? An another question comes to mind as to the size, I see Lee offering a .457 and a .459 mold, how do I know the dia. I need?

I did attempt a search, so forgive me if this is one of those recurring questions from a newbie, but obviously I don't do well on searches. :mrgreen:

Thanks

350Gr

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

350gr.

You WILL be ask if you have slugged your bore!

However, my guess would be the .459 mold.

There are a number of ways people size and lube, but I don't do tumble lube!!! and like the luber/sizers.

For my 45/70, I am sizing at .460 and using White Label Lube.

Also, it your planning on hunting game with the 45/70, look for a Wide Flat Nose (WFN) bullet style in something over 400gr. - I like 465gr WFN -. Then go with the velocity in the range of 1500 - 1700fps and you will be ready for most anything North American can offer, bears included.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Westwindmike]

I cast and shoot the Lee 340gr boolit. It drops out at .460 and I shoot them as cast. I tumble lube them twice and they shoot good in my Buffalo Classic rifle. Sometimes a batch will come out at .461 or so and I use a Lee push through sizer to size them to .459.

[41 mag fan]

My Accurate molds, 405gr and 425 gr drop at .460
My RCBS 300gr mold drops at .460 also.
My Marlin slugged out at .458
My Browning 1886, i have to slug still
I used a Lyman sizer and sized some down and lubed to .459.
I'm going to try them at that size and at .460 to see how they do.

[Von Gruff]

I have been casting the 450gn Lee mould and sizing and lubing through the .459 die and it has been good in a 458 Lott and just recently as a subsonic in a 45-70

[MT Chambers]

If the biggest animal you plan to shoot is a deer, I'd recommend the Lyman Gould Hollow pt., prolly the best deer bullet ever made.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well considering the extra effort needed to cast Hollow Points and the very high level of effectiveness with the WFN profile, and being the old coot that I am, I'll will stay with the WFN.

ZERO need for expansion with the WFN, no need to tweak alloy to assure expansion and avoid fragmentation.

In fact, the first deer taken with the 45/70 with a 355gr WFN and muzzle velodity of just over 2300fps was waaaaay too much of a ?good? thing.

Overly large wound channel!

Much better is the 465gr WFN at 1650fps, I'm currently using. Ooooooh so effective on deer and elk!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[DrCaveman]

What would I need in the way of a Mold and Lube/Sizer to start making my own Boolits for my 45-70? An another question comes to mind as to the size, I see Lee offering a .457 and a .459 mold, how do I know the dia. I need?

I did attempt a search, so forgive me if this is one of those recurring questions from a newbie, but obviously I don't do well on searches. :mrgreen:

Thanks

350Gr

I bought the lee 405 wfn and the 500 spitzer at the same time. Couldn't decide if a sizer was needed since I didn't know exactly how the boolits would drop.

The 405 drops around .459" and the 500 drops at .460". I decided to just try them out as cast, and have been very happy with the results. Tried pan lubing both boolits using Darr lube, worked fine. Since then I went to tumble lubing the 405, have not looked back. No lead problems, and accuracy is up to my standards shooting around 1300-1500 fps.

Still using the pan lube for the 500 spitzer. I like pushing that mother around 1600-1700 fps for a real slammer. I hope someday to scope up the gun and see how that one does at 500+ yds.

[1Shirt]

I would suggest saving lead and going with the 405 if all you are doing is punching paper!
1Shirt!

[craig61a]

I use an Accurate mold, and spec'd the size at .461. 405 grain boolit, it's a good one that works well in both my Springfields.

60240

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

350GR,

I think if your reading the posts, you are seeing a number of ways that all get the shoes on the horse.

Just because I won't go anywhere close to tumble pan lubing, doesn't make those that do, wrong.

I don't like the method or idea, so choose a different way. Simple as that, no right or wrong here, just personal choice.

The comment about saving lead for paper punching is valid.

Craig61a is showing a good example of a WFN type bullet profile. Good Looking bullet Craig!

However, on the saving lead thought, and being a one bullet for one rifle person in most cases, it just may be possible to carry the thought too far.

I like to find a bullet that shoots well in my rifle and stick with it. Easily confused here, so in most cases, avoid changing bullet styles or weights. This would be especially true in a hunting rifle.

I like my 465gr WFN just fine and will probably stick with it, althougn I have given some thought to down sizing from my LBT 310gr LFN .44 mag. Maybe to something about 260 - 280gr.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[runfiverun]

i'm not a fan of tumble lubing either.
i however have a couple of tumble lube type molds.
i only own one lee mold it is for the 45/70,it's their 435 gr gas check in a 2 cavity.
i size and check in a 459 die for my browning 86.
the tumble lube i use is not lee's alox however, nor is it the 45/45/10 lube either.
it does the job in three rifles from 1,600-2,000 fps as it is designed to.

[350Gr]

Thanks to everyone that chimed in on this. I have been sponging up many different opinions on different threads. I just got back here to read your post.

Craig that is a pretty boolit! That's right out the mold?

Crazy, I'm a total novice at lead, been reloading jacketed all my life except for some MO bullets I've bought over the years for pistols. But I believe the lead bug has bitten me.

41, I noticed your going to push a .460 through the .458, that is not a problem?

I have a lever gun so I'm limited to boolit type, I guess if you slug the gun you will be more capable of better accuracy, right? That is if you fit the boolit to the barrel? Guess I'll be doing more sponging the pro's and con's. If I slug it can I use an egg sinker let's say .5 in dia. or is that gonna get stuck? I need more study on that for sure.

Thanks Everyone,
350Gr

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=350Gr; "41, I noticed your going to push a .460 through the .458, that is not a problem?"

When starting out with cast bullets, it's best to FORGET all the truisms and "rules" learned in using jacketed bullets for reloading.

For instance, the GROOVE DIAMETER is relatively unimportant, because if the bullet is a tad large, the bore will size it correctly. The THROAT diameter is critical; it's an accepted guideline to use the LARGEST-DIAMETER bullet that can still be freely chambered. As an example, virtually all my .30-caliber cast bullets are sized at .311", not the nominal .308" used in commercial .30-caliber jacketed bullets. My results are excellent, thanks!

A cast bullet is relatively soft, and will conform to many different conditions after firing. It actually improves things, if the bullet is bit oversize....this ensures GOOD bullet fit in the bore. An undersized bullet is a major cause of leading in the barrel. My .45-70s are sized .460, .35s are .359, .270s are .279.... you get the idea.

This is a fascinating off-shoot of the handloading game, and I wish you well with it. Read all the 'stickies' in each forum that interests you; there's no quicker way to REALLY find out what works.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

350GR,

I'm guessing your shyooting a Marlin, and the folk at MarlinOwners Forum can help you with styles and sizes that will work for you.

CDOC

[41 mag fan]

[QUOTE=350Gr; "41, I noticed your going to push a .460 through the .458, that is not a problem?"

When starting out with cast bullets, it's best to FORGET all the truisms and "rules" learned in using jacketed bullets for reloading.

For instance, the GROOVE DIAMETER is relatively unimportant, because if the bullet is a tad large, the bore will size it correctly. The THROAT diameter is critical; it's an accepted guideline to use the LARGEST-DIAMETER bullet that can still be freely chambered. As an example, virtually all my .30-caliber cast bullets are sized at .311", not the nominal .308" used in commercial .30-caliber jacketed bullets. My results are excellent, thanks!

A cast bullet is relatively soft, and will conform to many different conditions after firing. It actually improves things, if the bullet is bit oversize....this ensures GOOD bullet fit in the bore. An undersized bullet is a major cause of leading in the barrel. My .45-70s are sized .460, .35s are .359, .270s are .279.... you get the idea.

This is a fascinating off-shoot of the handloading game, and I wish you well with it. Read all the 'stickies' in each forum that interests you; there's no quicker way to REALLY find out what works.

Very well said Bruce. Someone like 350gr that's trying to learn can understand fully by how you described boolit to bore fit.

[350Gr]

Bruce, 41 and CDOC thanks for the info and like I said, I'll be sponging for a while.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

350GR,

Sponging IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although I have handloaded since the 60s, and cast for handguns most of those year, I sponged a LOT - 3 to 5 years ago - when I began to really consider the possibility of using my own boolits for rifle hunting.

I had a bit of a head start as I'd already consumed Veral Smith's (LBT - Lead Bullet Technology) book, "Jacketed Performance With Cast Bullets", and had read and used Lyman's cast bullet manual.

And had bought a LFN (Long Flat Nose) mold from LBT for my .44. Gas checked 310gr.

But in truth, it was still a bit hard for the old jacketed bullet, high velocity rifle hunter to really, down deep and at gut level, believe that a non-expanding bullet could create a worthy wound channel at typical 45/70 velocities, even if it was a "WFN".

It DOES!!, my oh my does it ever! True believer after one deer and 3 more deer and 2 elk just verified the fact.

So, keep "sponging" along with the rest of us!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[9.3X62AL]

The two 45-70s I currently have in use both seem to dote on boolits sized at .459". Tests I've run using the same boolit designs--powder weights--primers--and brass make show no significant accuracy edge with sizing at .461". Kind of a non-factor so far, there wasn't even an uptick or refinement in velocity or SD between the two diameters. I have one newer boolit design to run this test series upon, so nthe jury is still out.......but my feelings to date are that once the boolit fits well, making it fit slightly tightly gains no love in these two rifles. It's not like they are varmint guns, and 1/4" of accuracy improvement won't make a whole heap of difference on large game. Sometimes we get wrapped around ideas that--in the light of day--don't gain us much of real worth. 350-450 grains of lead moving at 1400-1600 FPS is going to spoil the day of whatever critter intersects it. This is one of those Great Truths of the 45-70 that has been its hallmark for 140 years--the caliber works.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well said!

CDOC

[350Gr]

Well I slugged my barrel with some soft lead and it was .458 od at the rifling. That was what the manufacture said it should be, so are you guys saying the lead should still be .459 or .460 and force itself to .458 during firing?

Thanks
350Gr

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep, go with the .460.

Just the Ol'Coot's opinion.

But the cast boolit sized to that dia. will have zero issues fiting the .458 barrel.

However, 9,3X62AL says it pretty well, and has plenty of experience with the 45/70 up to an including shooting the "Mastadon Slayer."

Now, dat do be one beeeeeg boolit! It's effectiveness on Mastondons is verified by the fact they are now few and far between.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[rfd]

what gun? that's important as their are at least 3 different levels of 45-70 loads - trap door, lever, ruger.

[Whiterabbit]

What's the mastodon slayer? I've shot the Led Zeppelin which is a 600 (actually 555 to 630+ grain, depending how they cut the mold) grain bullet. I'm hoping to get some NEI 750's from one of our own (cant ask for a better community). How does the mastodon slayer rank with the Led Zeppelin and the NEI big bertha (I think its #351?)

[taco650]

What would I need in the way of a Mold and Lube/Sizer to start making my own Boolits for my 45-70? An another question comes to mind as to the size, I see Lee offering a .457 and a .459 mold, how do I know the dia. I need?

I did attempt a search, so forgive me if this is one of those recurring questions from a newbie, but obviously I don't do well on searches. :mrgreen:

Thanks

350Gr

To be on the safe side, I'd go for the larger (.459) as the .457 is probably more for 45Colt pistol.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

The Mastadon Slayer is what 9.3X62AL calls the big boys he has a mold for. Just put one on the digital scales and it came up at 534gr. lubed with Gas Check.

CDOC

[350Gr]

what gun? that's important as their are at least 3 different levels of 45-70 loads - trap door, lever, ruger.

Its a modern 1895GS.

[Swede44mag]

I have a SS Marlin Lever Evolution 45-70 I size my RCBS 300gr RNFP boolits to .460 with my Star boolit Sizer.
I went with .460 to keep from making the grease grooves any shallower the less sized the better as long as they are round.
I had one of the guys on the forum make the die for me.
They shoot great out of the Marlin it is suppose to have the Ballard rifling not the microgroove that other Marlin rifles have.

[Walter Laich]

to be different I'm using the Lyman 457191 mold that casts a 292 gr RNFP. I am using this for cowboy action and over a light loading of powder get a very gentle cartridge (shoulder surgery x2) ended my days of big bore, heavy recoil shooting.

[350Gr]

Thanks again for all the input. I am as CB calls it a boolit mold and I recon for good reason, this lead stuff is totally new to me. I slugged my barrel, ordered some lead tools and am awaiting there arrival...but these days that takes plenty of patients!

[WHITETAIL]

350gr. Welcome to the forum!
When I started shooting the 45-70.
I was shooting a Marlin SS and got good
results with the Gould 330gr. boolit.
Used Star-line brass.
CCI-200-Lr. primers.
IMR-4198-37grs.
OAL=2.542
You would not be sorry for any reason.:cbpour:

[350Gr]

Yup, I'll let you all know when I do my first...still waiting patiently.

[joepb]

I also like the lyman 330gr gould......Joe

[Clinebo]

An excellent book to read is Beartooth Bullets Technical Guide by Marshall Stanton. And there are many more out there. I hope you enjoy reading. I had to make a bigger bookcase just for all my hunting/shooting/reloading/casting books.

https://beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm