Question on quenching WWM

[Patrick L]

I have a question about quenching wheel weight metal. My typical alloy is wheelweights with about 2 % tin added. Until very recently that has served me well for all of my needs. For various reasons I may need to experiment with quench hardened WWM. I have read up on the process and feel it is worth a try.

My question is, is a toaster oven capable of doing the heating ? Please understand there is no way, no how, I am going to do this in the kitchen oven. So please don't even suggest it. Yes, I know it can be done in perfect safety, but #1 will never allow it. HOWEVER, she keeps saying how much she hates our perfectly good toaster oven, and the wheels are turning in my head. Toaster oven thermostats go up to 500 degrees, and I'm sure with a little experimenting I can find the setting that will work. Does anyone have any actual experience using a toaster oven for this ?

[45 2.1]

Give some thought to dropping them straight from the mold into a pail of water. It will give adequately hard bullets.

[Willbird]

I agree, they get as hard as woodpecker lips water dropped from the mold....


Bill

[Patrick L]

I would like to size and gascheck them though; it is my understanding that sizing a quenched bullet will somehow "workharden " (actually worksoften?) the bullet. I thought you needed to size and gascheck them prior to heating and quenching.

[Willbird]

It is true that sizing them after they reach full hardness will soften the surface, however you can water drop them, put on screen to dry, and size/lube/seat checks the next day before they reach full hardness.

also people have reported that while they KNOW the bullets have been softened by sizing, the bullets don't seem to act like it...maybe bullets arent real smart hehe

Bill

[45 2.1]

You have about 8 hours to size them before they get really hard to size after water dropping them.

[Slowpoke]

My question is, is a toaster oven capable of doing the heating ? Please understand there is no way, no how, I am going to do this in the kitchen oven. So please don't even suggest it. Yes, I know it can be done in perfect safety, but #1 will never allow it. HOWEVER, she keeps saying how much she hates our perfectly good toaster oven, and the wheels are turning in my head. Toaster oven thermostats go up to 500 degrees, and I'm sure with a little experimenting I can find the setting that will work. Does anyone have any actual experience using a toaster oven for this ?

I have been using a toaster oven for about two years now.

Experimenting is the key word !

A few things I have found is, I needed a piece of foil over and under my bullet basket, my toaster oven is not very well insulated so heat loss is rapid once the thermostat clicks off. So to compensate I increase the soak time.

One and a half hours at 450* on the dial gives me 25 BHN. not sure what the real temp. is, never took the time to find the slump temp as I don't care about Max hardness. I water drop everything for convenience sake right out of the mould, but I cast at a liesurly pace and don't sweat it if some sizzle a little more than others, the toaster oven will even them all out. I do 200 at a time. I bake bullets while I attend to other reloading chores so time wise its no biggie for me.

Good luck

[Patrick L]

Thanks Slowpoke ! I think my wife is going to get a new toaster soon ! For me, sizing them within a few hours is not really an option. Call me anal, but I have developed a sort of routine over the years. It fits my life schedule and my work schedule, and I like it.

I do all of my casting in the fall and early winter. This is primarily rifle bullets for Highpower rifle, along with a smattering of pistol bullets. I tend to stockpile the pistol bullets ahead, so some years I don't even bother to cast those if I have enough. Its the rifle bullets that fit a specific need and I do go thru several extra steps with those, hence the "schedule" I have sort of developed. I do three or four casting sessions, accumulating all of the bullets I think I'll need for the upcoming year, and then put the casting stuff away for the year. I'm done casting by mid December. The rifle bullets get weighed and separated into lots, and I also accumulate the rejects for practice use. This may take a month or more, as I need to accumulate about 600 or so for a Highpower season plus some to use for load testing, gun testing etc. By now its January or early February. Only then do I start gaschecking/lubesizing, and packing them away , ready to load. I generally start loading ammo by mid March or so to do a bit off warmup/practice for Highpower, which our league stars shooting in April. Our season ends in October, and I'm out of bullets, so the whole process sort of fits the year. I also shoot a fair bit of shotgun, so my schedule has to accomodate all of the reloading etc. that goes along with that , as well as hunting, cleaning, other projects etc. Oh and I'm married with small children. Scheduling is EVERYTHING.

I know this may seem a bit busy, but I actually find it more efficient a way of doing things. Only with my highpower bullets do I go to such lengths. Pistol bullets and "casual shooting" rifle bullets are visually inspected during sizing and/or loading. If it looks good, it goes downrange. So this is why the heating system of quenching would be best for me. It could be months between casting and processing them.

I would most likely size and install the gascheck, then heat and quench them, and finally pan lube them so as not to disturb the hardness.

Willbird and 45 2.1, you two especially seem to have a lot of experience with this stuff, so what are your thoughts ?

[fecmech]

This would not fit Pat l's schedual but for those of you that don't want to size right away put the quenched bullets in the freezer till you are ready to size them. I tried various periods up to two weeks and bullets ran thru the sizer just like fresh cast and then hardened up just fine. My understanding the freezer slows the hardening process way down. I stopped at 2 weeks only because I don't need to go longer. I have no idea how long you could really hold them that way. Nick

[45 2.1]

Ditto on what fecmech said.

[BruceB]

Patrick, sir;

Since I water-drop the vast majority of my rifle bullets, I often end up sizing-and-lubing bullets which are harder than normal WW BHN. Even weeks after casting, I have no particular difficulty in sizing, and this includes some .44-310 LEEs which I size from .431" to .424" for .404 Jeffery "plinkers". My lube-sizers are Lyman 450s, and they have not come to any grief in doing this.

If you decide to go with the oven-hardening, I'd strongly suggest that the bullets be sized BEFORE heat-treating, and also that the gas-checks be applied AFTER heat treating, when you lube the bullets. The reason for this is that I've found the grip of the gaschecks on the bullets is loosened when heat-treating with the checks installed. This is doubtless a result of the different metals involved reacting differently to the heating, but whatever the cause, I no longer oven-treat bullets with the checks attached.

It's no big deal to delay the installation of gaschecks, because the bullets have to make another trip though the sizer to get their lube. Might's well put the checks on during the lubing step.

[felix]

Bruce is correct. For the ultimate match boolits: Harder boolits always size straighter, so size them without lube and without checks after the boolits are good and hard. Water drop them as normal. Put them into oven at 200 degrees for an hour or two. They will be at a good hardness for sizing after they are cool. Also, the checks get looser, but sometimes the checks will crack the lead (high antimony) upon cooling, so don't heat treat boolits with checks on them. After sizing, now oven treat them. ... felix