Make black powder

[crow531]

Just curious do any of you make your own black powder? How does it compare with commercial powder?

[fouronesix]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?103852-My-homemade-black-powder

[Boz330]

I do. Have taken 2 deer with in it the past 2 years. If you are interested there is a sticky in the muzzle loading forum that is probably more info than you want. I have shot my powder at 300 and 500 yds in competition as well. It did OK at 300 but the ES was too much to deal with at 500yd. At 125yd or less it shoots well within minute of deer though.
I have tried a number of different things in the manufacture of it so the consistency lot to lot has been an issue. I always re-sight when I make a new batch. I do use Swiss and Kik for competition. My HM does actually give a little more velocity per grain of weight. The HM is less dense than either Swiss or Kik. With a 400gr boolit in my 40-65, 65gr of Swiss gives me 1275FPS avg. With the HM I was getting 1200FPS from 50gr, which is a case full.
2011's deer. This buck was old and TOUGH. Got a big doe this year, much better eating.

Bob

[crow531]

Good link tells me it's been, lot of information. thank

[crow531]

Boz330
Seems like whatever your doing works

[Boz330]

Boz330
Seems like whatever your doing works
It goes bang and for what I'm looking for it works fine. I have always enjoyed trying to do everything I can by myself. A genetic flaw I'm sure, but a heck of a lot of fun. I was the kid that tore everything apart to see how it worked, didn't always get it back together though.

Bob

[Freightman]

Started making my own six mo. ago, thanks to Atom and Fly and Boz there information is expert in my opinion.

[Boz330]

Started making my own six mo. ago, thanks to Atom and Fly and Boz there information is expert in my opinion.

Thank you for the vote of confidence but it has been more trial and error than anything else. Fly has been the biggest help to me. Not trying to slight Atom. Like so many things, there is more than one way to do things. I was more interested in cartridge which has it's own set of problems because of the limited space available.

Bob

[wonderwolf]

There is a guy that shoots in our artillery matches who makes his own cannon grade, I imagine he has a way to get consistent batches since he burns several oz in one shot. How much are you making in one go when you make up a batch?

[Boz330]

4 to 8 oz is about all I make at a time. I do mix several batches into 1 lb lots which for what I'm doing works fine.

Bob

[texasmac]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/RealTexasMac/MakingmyownBlackPowder.jpg

[Rojelio]

:dung_hits_fan:

[Nobade]

It's pretty amazing that thousands of pyro enthusiasts can safely make black powder with no problem but if a shooter tries it they'll certainly blow themselves up.

[Boz330]

Started when I was a kid, still have all of the original equipment. Some of it doesn't work like it use to but not because of making BP.

Of course there are some folks that shouldn't be messing with reloading. Had a friend put a primer weight bar through the roof of his mobile home because he hadn't figured out that you should never force something that doesn't want to give, especially when there are explosives involved.

Bob

[oldred]

I agree that safety should be the first order of the day and like anything else it's just a matter of using common sense, just like reloading the potential powder maker needs to learn all he can about what not to do as well as what to do.

Now the problem I had when I tried making powder several years ago was grading the stuff, I wound up trying several methods but the granulation was always inconsistent and I usually ended up with a lot of fines mixed with the coarser granules. The end results were wide variations in velocities and VERY heavy fouling, it did however go bang when I pulled the trigger and made lots of smoke so I was happy with what I had but did not attempt another batch after that was gone. All this talk lately has me thinking about trying it again so these threads on the subject are of definite interest, please keep the info coming!

[mold maker]

I've been in the process of learning all I can before ever mixing the devils brew, and the more I read, the more confused I become. It seems each new tidbit of info makes me aware of a new method, or procedure that is contrary to the last. I consider myself to be rather safety conscious, and the warnings given by those that haven't a clue, just serve to muddy the waters.
I know it aint rocket science because our forefathers had to do it to feed their families. They also had to make their own components, not just the charcoal, and could often do it with only the primitive, stuff they carried with them.
We can buy KNO3 and sulfur, purer than they could make. We have the advantage of electric powered tumblers, and we all have lead to use in a ball mill. Now with all those modern convinces, we only need to be able to adapt the old methods to safely concoct our own.
I sure wish somebody would demystify the whole thing so that I could throw away all the books I've bought, and forget all the deep mystery and drama I've consumed on the internet.
I already have over a lb of black willow charcoal dust (powder), and both the other ingredients, but I lack the confidence to proceed. I've lived 71 years, and don't want to end it with a bang.
Anyone with real experience care to help me over the edge????
I'm a willing student, with a real thirst to get it done.

[Boz330]

MM, there is a very long sticky on the ML forum that got me started. Like so many other things there is more than one way to do it, and still be right.

Old Red, you can get grading screens from McMaster Carr. I use a kitchen sieve which is a 16 mesh screen, a 20 mesh screen (2F) and a 30 mesh Screen (3F). The larger grains are ground again and the fines are reprocessed. I have found the best results with 3F. If you have not read it, the sticky mentioned above is pretty detailed and offers several different processes.

Bob

[fishin_bum]

A friend and I got into making BP about 8 years ago, we both use different methods. He cooks his on the stove (CIA Method) But he doesn't own his house! I make mine in the back yard on a nice day, I usually make 2lbs at a time. I did the search for ingredient's locally, but was wasting gas going all over to find them, I also wanted top grade BP. I ordered everything from http://www.skylighter.com/ good prices and top of the line stuff. As far as mixing tools I have a large pyrex mixing bowl, wooden spoons, 4 sizes of stainless steel screen mounted on 12"x12"x1 1/2"wooden frames that stack. TOOLS ARE IMPORTANT; you don't want anything that conduct static electricity. I have a formula that I use every time I got it out of the Foxfire Books and my BP burns faster than commercial powder. I load this in my .357 it is awesome.

[bigted]

awwwww...come on fellers:roll: this is NOT fair ! ya know i cant NOT read this stuff. makes me all jittery and sweaty just thinkin about makin my own. wish that my feeble mind would just wonder over these kinda posts and not stop in and read about what has been lurkin in my mind for some years now.

you know how some folks are...im one and now there is another subject to keep my noggin awake at nite when im spose ta be gettin sleep for this stupid job[smilie=1:

[Nobade]

It's easy and fun....you know you want to....aaw, go ahead and take it up!

[cal50]

A good read if you want to make good powder.

http://www.gunthorp.com/Mfg%20Black%20Pdr.htm

[Ragnarok]

Back in the day...and even now I bet...it was standard practice to heavily frame gun-powder making buildings....but lightly fasten the siding onto the building's heavy framework.

This style of building used so that when and if the powder exploded..it just blew off the sides and vented the blast...leaving the facility(hopefully) otherwise intact!

They also tended to have water tanks set-up so a explosion would dump the tank water onto the powder...again..hopefully extinguishing the blast with minimal damage...

I have never made my own gunpowder...but logic would suggest it's a chore to be done when the family is not around...and not something I would want to do in my primary residence..or close to it...

I can just hear the insurance people now..."He was making explosives when it blew!"..."Ok...Uhmm..no checks 'cause we don't insure for that"

All that said...I would make my own powder...I have a man-cave a suitable distance from the house...the siding ain't real tight...and I wouldn't make big batches. It's probably a lot safer than it sounds...:-?

[Nobade]

It is something you do OUTSIDE.

-Nobade

[oldred]

I think it goes without saying that it's not a good idea to make this stuff in your basement! Done in the proper environment and with the proper safety precautions it should be safe enough. Another thing to consider is the huge amounts being made in factories, obviously if this is done at home it should be made in small batches.

[RMulhern]

It is something you do OUTSIDE.

-Nobade

Hmmm....lets see! So....if you're doing it OUTSIDE....there's less chance of having both hands blown off or being blinded...or is the location of outside recommended so as to not blow the roof off the house??

[skullmount]

Back in the day...and even now I bet...it was standard practice to heavily frame gun-powder making buildings....but lightly fasten the siding onto the building's heavy framework.

This style of building used so that when and if the powder exploded..it just blew off the sides and vented the blast...leaving the facility(hopefully) otherwise intact!



Same thing on some of the big three auto plants at the paint shop areas, different fastners for the siding..........................

[Nobade]

Hmmm....lets see! So....if you're doing it OUTSIDE....there's less chance of having both hands blown off or being blinded...or is the location of outside recommended so as to not blow the roof off the house??

Neither one. It is a good idea to keep fire away from gunpowder so it doesn't ignite until you want it to. The reason for making it outside is because you generate a fair amount of very fine dust when grinding up the pucks and you don't want that accumulating indoors. You also want to wear a dust mask to minimize inhaling the dust. And it goes without saying you don't want to be smoking cigarettes while handling powder...

-Nobade

[wch]

I've looked around on the internet and am unable to find a cheap 30 mesh screen or sieve (20 mesh, no prob); anyone know of a source for the 30 mesh?

[John Boy]

anyone know of a source for the 30 mesh?

http://www.bigceramicstore.com/supplies/Sieves.htm


Durable yet inexpensive, these sieves feature high-quality, stainless steel screens permanently imbedded in unbreakable plastic bowls. Fits over most 5 gallon buckets.

[wch]

Thanks, John.

[cal50]

Quantity of powder = safety
As a hobbyist your runs of powder should be small that way in the event of something bad happening there is no loss of life or limb.

If you are running batches to compete with Goex then your safety zone should be on par.

[John Boy]

If you are running batches to compete with Goex then your safety zone should be on par. Cal, I wouldn't hold this to be the gospel truth. Goex since they bought out DuPont at Moosic has had the worst safety record of all the powder producers.

Here's their last one in November 2012 ... http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/20121113/NEWS01/121113009/Another-explosion-Camp-Minden


Today's blast is at least the seventh at Goex since it moved to the site in mid-1997

[cal50]

Cal, I wouldn't hold this to be the gospel truth. Goex since they bought out DuPont at Moosic has had the worst safety record of all the powder producers.

Here's their last one in November 2012 ... http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/20121113/NEWS01/121113009/Another-explosion-Camp-Minden

Yep, the plant has had a couple major explosions.
BP has been made for many decades and if safety gets complacent accidents happen. If a person does not know what is involved then it makes it more of a hazard. This is why batch size is kept small.

Most explosions occur in the corning phase where static electricity, humidity and friction will bite you in the ***. Small quantities & being safe are the key.

[Rattus58]

I do. Have taken 2 deer with in it the past 2 years. If you are interested there is a sticky in the muzzle loading forum that is probably more info than you want. I have shot my powder at 300 and 500 yds in competition as well. It did OK at 300 but the ES was too much to deal with at 500yd. At 125yd or less it shoots well within minute of deer though.
I have tried a number of different things in the manufacture of it so the consistency lot to lot has been an issue. I always re-sight when I make a new batch. I do use Swiss and Kik for competition. My HM does actually give a little more velocity per grain of weight. The HM is less dense than either Swiss or Kik. With a 400gr boolit in my 40-65, 65gr of Swiss gives me 1275FPS avg. With the HM I was getting 1200FPS from 50gr, which is a case full.
2011's deer. This buck was old and TOUGH. Got a big doe this year, much better eating.

Bob

The sulfur you're using, is it absolutely pure or are you able to use some version of wettable sulfur with a 90/10 ratio. I've been reading that it comes down mostly to the charcoal, since you can make black without it, but here in Hawaii life isn't quite as cooperative and complementary to our liberties as you might enjoy elsewhere and I see our midget is begging for handouts as he promised he would in his very first words after being elected, but I'm kinda liking the smell (what's left) of black... 8-) and can find some wettable/dusting powder for about a $1-2 a pound.

Thanks in Advance... Much Aloha... 8-)

[Boz330]

I got my sulfur from Skylighter on line. The sulfur lowers the ignition temperature of BP. If you are using it in a ML that is an advantage but not a necessity in a cartridge. I don't know for sure if the 90% sulfur would make a difference but I wouldn't think it would. The amount of sulfur used is so low that a couple ponds goes a long way.

Bob

[Rattus58]

I got my sulfur from Skylighter on line. The sulfur lowers the ignition temperature of BP. If you are using it in a ML that is an advantage but not a necessity in a cartridge. I don't know for sure if the 90% sulfur would make a difference but I wouldn't think it would. The amount of sulfur used is so low that a couple ponds goes a long way.

Bob

Thank you. I'm thinking that it is true myself, but not having any experience I'm not wanting to make too many mistakes.

Aloha.. 8-)

[upnorthwis]

Many years ago I worked for a chemical company and also tried to make my own BP. The final product looked like 4F so I only used 60 grains rather than my usual 70. The ball bounced at 75 yards and rolled the rest of the way to the 100 yard berm. At least it went bang. I now buy Swiss 1 1/2.

[leeggen]

Come on you folks, making BP is probably safer than filling your lawnmower while it is hot. Many on here have made it and some have played with it for many years, don't know of any that loast their house to explosion or blew up their mancave or even lost more than some hair.
If they have I would like to know.
CD

[oldred]

Come on you folks, making BP is probably safer than filling your lawnmower while it is hot. Many on here have made it and some have played with it for many years, don't know of any that loast their house to explosion or blew up their mancave or even lost more than some hair.
If they have I would like to know.
CD

Agreed and as someone else in this thread asked how come pyrotechnic hobbyists make the stuff all the time and there don't seem to be a problem but if a shooter does it then to hear some comments it's likely to be a disaster, why?


The bottom line is it's only as dangerous as we allow it to be!

[Whiterabbit]

A friend and I got into making BP about 8 years ago, we both use different methods. He cooks his on the stove (CIA Method) But he doesn't own his house! I make mine in the back yard on a nice day, I usually make 2lbs at a time. I did the search for ingredient's locally, but was wasting gas going all over to find them, I also wanted top grade BP. I ordered everything from http://www.skylighter.com/ good prices and top of the line stuff. As far as mixing tools I have a large pyrex mixing bowl, wooden spoons, 4 sizes of stainless steel screen mounted on 12"x12"x1 1/2"wooden frames that stack. TOOLS ARE IMPORTANT; you don't want anything that conduct static electricity. I have a formula that I use every time I got it out of the Foxfire Books and my BP burns faster than commercial powder. I load this in my .357 it is awesome.

Holy smokies right there. I can buy a harbor freight drum tumbler (they are cheap cheap cheap!), fill it with hardcast roundballs from my 58 cal flinter (just use rifle lead in the round ball mold), spend FORTY THREE dollars on that website, use NO BURNER OR HEAT SOURCE, and make myself 10 lb of Holy Black?

Wow.


......wow.


I need to look into this very, very carefully.

[mold maker]

I have lost some hair, but at 72, what do you expect? Making my BP had absolutely nothing to do with it.
upnorthwis, keep trying, Your great great grandparents most likely fed their families doing it. You can too.

[Whiterabbit]

MM, there is a very long sticky on the ML forum that got me started. Like so many other things there is more than one way to do it, and still be right.

Old Red, you can get grading screens from McMaster Carr. I use a kitchen sieve which is a 16 mesh screen, a 20 mesh screen (2F) and a 30 mesh Screen (3F). The larger grains are ground again and the fines are reprocessed. I have found the best results with 3F. If you have not read it, the sticky mentioned above is pretty detailed and offers several different processes.

Bob

fines are reprocessed. So you just add water and make the cake again? or are they reprocessed by going back into the ball mill?

[Boz330]

fines are reprocessed. So you just add water and make the cake again? or are they reprocessed by going back into the ball mill?

Originally I ran them through the ball mill again but tried just wetting them again and compressing and couldn't tell any difference except eliminating hours of milling. I keep some of the fines for priming powder and it works great. It is probably finer than 4F. I have a 40 mesh screen put have never used it.

Bob

[Whiterabbit]

you compress by hand, or by press?

[Boz330]

I just use a bench vice, probably not as good as a hydraulic press but gets the job done. There are some pictures over on the BP making thread on the muzzle loading forum. Just check out the sticky at the top of the page.

Bob

[Whiterabbit]

Took some doing, but I found your posts. Post #394, page 10 of that thread. You took all your pics out of the thread.

What do you use in the vise? couple plugs of wood inside a PVC guide?

[Boz330]

I was cleaning up some of my down loaded stuff. I should have left them up there. But here are a couple pics. I used aluminum but wood would work just fine as well.

Bob