Thinking about starting to cast. Have some concerns...

[jhabers]

I have been thinking about starting to cast my own boolits for the past few months and recently have thought about it even more to warrent posting here to inquire some more. I like the idea of being self sustainable for the most part. That is one of the reasons I started reloading a few months back. I currentlt load for 9mm, 38spl and .223. I load FMJ and plated bullets.

With the recent craze I started thinking about things that i could do that would minimize the effect it would have on me if things get worse in the future and casting came front and center.

Thats all fine and dandy, heck...buy some mould, melt some lead and cast some boolits. But I have some concerns...

When speaking to a few people about casting your own boolits and doing some reading I see a lot of chatter saying that "you don't want to do that cause you will lead your barrel up"

That is the biggest concern I have now. Maybe I dont know much about it but can someone tell me about leading and what I should expect and how bad/a pain it really is? I dont want to ruin anything and I dont want to have to constanty worry.

Thanks :)

Jonathan

[OuchHot!]

See the sticky "from ingot to target". I probably started out as wrong headed as can be and never ruined any guns from leading. I was using the "lewis lead remover" a lot at the start. There is too much to communicate in one post so it is best for you to investigate some of the info available. Generally, size and alloy were probably my biggest discoveries in terms of finding success. For revolvers, it is really useful to determine the cylinder throat size. For the 9mm, you will want an alloy hardness suitable to your load intensity. I don't recommend casting in .223 until you get some handgun cast boolit experience.

[plainsman456]

As long as they fit your barrel the pistols shouldn't lead.
The 223 i have not cast or loaded for yet.

Like was said go to their web site and read their stuff,it will help you.

[462]

As with any endeavor, there's more involved than what, at first, it seems. But once into it, it's not all that difficult. I've noticed that those people who poo-poo shooting cast boolits are totally ignorant about the subject. I submit that the Cast Boolits forum has more casting and reloading knowledge and experience than any other source. Read, ask questions, and before you know it, you'll be casting and shooting your own, and helping the new guy.

My suggestion would be to continue reading, here -- especially the forum's Archive -- Mr. Fryxell's previously mentioned excellent e-book, and Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, third edition.

Self dependency and self sufficiency are their own rewards.

[OuchHot!]

If I had had the info here to start with, I don't think leading barrels would have been a consideration. When you get started, think through every aspect that involves hot lead. I started casting from a pot on the kitchen stove. I don't think that I would go there again, but managed it safely. Then there was the day I shucked a hot boolit out of the mold straight into my bedroom slipper (foot still inside). I learned a lot about proper clothing right then. Best to avoid the school of hard knocs when hot lead is involved. With the info here and the molds that are available now, you should have a fine time and make lots of good boolits.

[runfiverun]

hmmmm.
cleaning soft easy to get out lead from a barell.
or use something that is bad for your steel barell to get hard copper fouling out.
high pressure throat eroding gas.
or gentle accurate loads..
brass making it 5-7 times before being trashed.
brass that lasts 20-30 uses.
20-25 cents a bullet
3-5 cents a bulet
barell erosion and loss of acuracy in 5,000 rounds
or a barell life of about 100,000 rounds..

i can see where it would be hard to make a decision.

there is the time factor of just buying stuff and cramming it in a case.
versus learning how to measure throats and making your own boolits fit them.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Two posts back 462 gave you some good advice. Leading is not something to worry about; it is a condition that has a cause and/or a reason for it and it can be solved and overcome with study and good/correct practice. Many forum members here have experienced the problem, eliminated it and have successfully enjoyed shooting without further stress. You may never encounter the problem; it is not a bad pain and you won't ruin anything. But you need to be knowledgeable about it so that, if experienced, you can effectively deal with it. I had only rifles to start with and I leaded a couple of them in the beginning due to my inexperience and lack of a mentor, but in overcoming the problems I gained knowledge that enabled me to not ever have a similar problem when I began casting and loading for pistol. Put the fears that you expressed in your first post aside, continue to read and ask questions and do not worry/stress over mistakes...they can be corrected. You will succeed. LLS

[Beau Cassidy]

Don't you love it when folks make an uneducated assumption? Oh wait- I wasn't talking about a politician... Let all those folks keep thinking casting bullets isn't worth it. It leaves more lead for you and I.

[largom]

As already suggested read the books. Take notes on the important stuff then go back and read the notes over and over. This will get you acquainted with the tools and terminology used in casting. Then read some of the stickys on this forum and ask questions. The amount of knowledge on this forum is staggering and beyond any book. You will also need to be able to determine what advice is good and what is not so good since we all have our own pet ways of doing things. Shooting cast boolits will give you a sense of freedom and independence. By the way "Welcome aboard".

Larry

[KYCaster]

We just do this because we enjoy cleaning lead out of our barrels. [smilie=1:


Jerry

[nhrifle]

Still remember what the feller who sold me my first casting equipment told me when I handed him the money. "I don't know why you want this stuff. You'll wreck your barrel and you won't be able to hit anything with stuff you cast."

Maybe I was just a little more stubborn than he was?

[MikeS]

To give you an example, I went to the range about a week ago, and between me & a shooting buddy (who's also a forum member here) we shot around 50 rounds out of my Ruger Mini-30. Looking down the barrel now, it looks as clean as it did before we started shooting, as if it wasn't even shot! If you size the boolits correctly to your gun, and use a good lube on them, you won't have leading. Read as many of the stickies on this forum, as well as the other sub-forums, as you can. Don't be afraid to ask questions, for the most part the guys here don't bite. Like many others on this forum, I have given up on jacketed bullets, and only shoot cast boolits I've made myself, or made by friends.

[PbHurler]

Jonathan,
The posts above have all been spot-on. Search the sticky's, and ask anything you might want to know. There's a helluva lot of cast boolit knowledge residing here, and not alot that hasn't been seen or done before.

FWIW, The first cast boolits I loaded were purchased "hard cast" (some 35 years ago, prior to my beginning casting) in a .44 Mag. I got bad leading. After I began casting, I read everything I could get my hands on, on the subject, (this was prior to the internet & THIS forum) I no longer had any kind of problems. Once you weed out the "beliefs and heresay's" ect.., you'll find that shooting lead is no more of an issue than any other type of bullet. There are some general rules to follow, but you're in the best place to learn the in's & out's.

Enjoy the ride & welcome to the forum!

[Wayne Smith]

Jonathan, another perspective on leading: My most recent experience of it is my 45ACP - I had my crimp die set just a touch too low. I have about a hundred rounds left of that series of loads. I am so unconcerned that I'm gonna shoot all of them and then get the lead out of my barrel. No point in pulling all of those boolits! I have cleaned lead out of barrels and it doesn't scare me.

As stated before, lead in the barrel is the symptom of a problem. Fix the problem and you won't have it any more.

[captaint]

I'm not afraid to admit that I used to be one of those guys - like 35 years ago. Later, I got to thinking, people wouldn't be doing this if it just didn't work. So, I got to looking around and decided to try it for myself. Then I found this site a few years ago. Now, of course, I'm incurable. I've got it bad. Sure is fun, though !! Mike

[jonk]

Worrying about casting because you might lead the barrel is a lot like worrying about learning to ride a bike because you might fall off.

It isn't hard to clean out leading. No, it probably won't come out with a patch and Hoppes, but it's nothing a bore brush and a little 0000 steel wool or copper wool won't take out in a minute or so of brushing. Or if you must, buy a commercial lead remover (over priced IMHO). Still cheaper than a couple boxes of J-word bullets.

[DrCaveman]

I haven't had major lead problems, but got a little and it was no big pain.

The calibers you mention are maybe tougher to master than others. I don't shoot, load or cast 223 but I have 'heard' about lead deposits fouling the gas system. Be sure to do your homework there.

Also 9mm. If you are shooting glock or another polygonal rifled barrel, there are other concerns and you want to head off leading quickly before it gets bad.

Start with 38, til you get the ropes. You'll do great.

Welcome

[Wolfer]

The caveman is right. Start with the 38, they are very cast friendly. That way when you move into the more difficult stuff if you start having problems at least you know it can work.
I have no issues with anything I cast but have had no luck with commercial cast boolits. They're too hard and too small. Your mileage may vary!

[spfd1903]

Please don't let your concern keep you from getting started. I have never had leading from any rifle or pistol boolit that I have cast and lubed myself. Incurred leading from some commercially cast 9 mm's one time. Wrapped some pure Copper scrub pad strands around a bore brush and all the leading was removed. You said it, you will be independant of going to a store or ordering off the internet to obtain projectiles.

[Wayne Smith]

Worrying about casting because you might lead the barrel is a lot like worrying about learning to ride a bike because you might fall off.

It isn't hard to clean out leading. No, it probably won't come out with a patch and Hoppes, but it's nothing a bore brush and a little 0000 steel wool or copper wool won't take out in a minute or so of brushing. Or if you must, buy a commercial lead remover (over priced IMHO). Still cheaper than a couple boxes of J-word bullets.

Aww, c'ome on, Jonk. Let's not get him too blasé about this. I've had leading in a rifle barrel that took me about three days of hard work to get completely clean! Learned a thing or two, too, about to soft an alloy being pushed too hard in a rifle.

[jhabers]

Wow! Thanks guys. Such great information and reassurance here. Im am going to read read read.

Thanks again!

Jonathan

[Recluse]

I'm always amused that those who don't cast or have never cast seem to know far more about it than those of us who do cast and have cast for some years.

Same goes with reloading. Those who don't reload always seem to give me these fantastic nuggets of advice and facts like "reloads aren't as good as factory" or "reloads aren't accurate" etc.

I tend to listen to the folks who actually DO--with success--whatever endeavor I'm pursuing rather than those who do not, or who tried and failed.

If you're truly interested in casting, you're not just in the right place (here), but you're in the best place.

:coffee:

[DrCaveman]

Looking back over this thread, I don't know if you ever got a good description of what 'leading' is really referring to.

I know that when I started, and had concerns similar to yours (albeit, for a very short time) I thought that leading meant something like: barrel getting plugged up with molten lead streaks. Or maybe lead being soldered into the rifling, rendering bullet rotation & stability to non existent.

Maybe there are cases as bad as my nightmares, but I have never seen any in the flesh. The worst leading I got involved my CZ 527 in 7.62x39, and there was a thin layer of lead in the grooves, starting about 8" from muzzle, gaining in thickness til the grooves were pretty much full at the muzzle. There were one or two 'wisps' of lead that I could see when looking down the muzzle, letting me know that I finally, truly, had 'leading.'

Cleanup was not too bad, as others have said, a few minutes with hoppes 9 and also paste made by Iosso, lead was gone. You will get in the habit of checking your bore regularly when testing new boolits/loads, so it should never get out of hand. And this leading problem was fixed by adding a gas check and better lube.

I think a member here started a web page which shows with pictures various degrees of leading. I think it was williamwaco. Maybe someone else knows the page I am talking about, or try PMing williamwaco.

[fcvan]

I have cast and shot handloads since I was a teenager in the 70s. Dad's buddy was an old hand at it and we jumped in hard and heavy. Back then, SAECO was just down the road in Carpenteria, CA, about 20 miles from us. Jimmy shot a .357 Python, dad a S&W M57 .41 and cast for both. Then mom got a .357 M27 and we cast for .38 and .41 Magnum. Dad loaded jacketed bullets for the magnum loads but if it were under 1200 fps he would use a 23 Keith style SWC.

When I got on my own and started casting, it was for a S&W 459 9mm. I didn't know that 9mm was supposed to be a hard to cast for cartridge. I treated it like it was a .38 and had no problems, ever. I take that back. I had always sized to .358 for my S&W and it shot fine. Last year I tried to size to .357 and experienced my first keyholes boolits. Boy, that was dumb. It wasn't broken and I tried to fix it.

Ok, so I cast 9mm, then .38, then .380 ACP then .45 ACP, then 41 mag, and in the past few years 40 S&W, and .223 / 5.56 NATO. I didn't know that cast boolits would destroy a Glock and hadn't read that until after I had fired several thousand lead boolits. Please don't tell my Glocks, they don't know they aren't supposed to shoot cast boolits. Again, I treated it like the .38 by using range lead, the NRA (or equivalent) lube, and sizing to fit the bore. I don't generally hot rod my loads except when shooting magnum velocities with gas checks and Unique. Leading was only a problem once and that was when trying to shoot too soft an alloy without a check.

The only cartridge I had read was a P.I.T.A. was the .223 as the boolits are tiny and hard to cast without wrinkles. I bought a Lyman 225-415 and preheated like I always do. The very first two boolits were keepers. I ran the alloy at the same temperature I run my Lee molds, I just mold faster to keep the blocks warm. Fumbling with gas checks for the little boolits was supposed to be a pain as well. I threw the checks on the primer tray to flip them and press the boolit onto the check before sizing to .225 in the Lyman 450. I expected hassles with casting for .223 but found them to me marginally more effort than larger boolits. My Mini 14 and my brother's AR 15 both like 14 grains of 4227 for full cycling at about 2250 fps. I can't wait until my 22 CheckMaker comes in so I can start stamping out those.

Casting is the way to go. Casting without some guidance is not the way to go. My dads friend Jimmy showed us, I've shown a lot of friends, and I have learned volumes from reading the posts on this site. I've been casting successfully for decades but am still learning from the neat folks here. By all means, get the gear and get your feet wet. Talk to folks who shoot in your area, there is bound to be an old caster out there who would love to share their knowledge. I have not yet met any caster who doesn't enjoy passing the torch of knowledge to new casters.

One more thing, you are not going to save yourself any money by casting. What you save by casting your own will only be spent on more primers and powder. What you will get is more trigger time and a sense of pride knowing you built that, you created something of value, and you have truly generated wealth. You cant place a value on that kind of accomplishment and no one can take away the feeling of pride that comes with becoming more self sufficient. That and you will meet the nicest of people through this website.

[9-toes]

Well if you get stuck just give a shout out. I'm in the same city. This site was just the ticket for answering my questions.

[quilbilly]

I have been casting for my 223's for about a year. My Mini-14 doesn't function properly with boolit velocities below about 2450 fps so I have just stuck with jacketed. My single shot carbine 223 has not had any leading problems but seems to like boolits moving at a leisurely 1600 fps. Getting the right powder and load will take some time since the 223 seems to be very touchy maybe due to the shorter neck (??). Not so with either my 222 or 22 Hornet.