98 Mauser

[lreed]

Would it be verboten to discuss loads for 8mm that would be equal to ww2 service loads? The reason,of course is to enable the use of sight graduation as issued. I remember seeing European cartridge ballistic tables that far exceeded the anemic loadings here in U.S. Load data anyone? Thanks lreed

[shredder]

I'm with you. The 8mm x 57 is seriously underloaded by the major ammo factories in north america. I use loads equal to the ground breaking loads from prior to WW1. The original smokeless load used a 200 grain RN but the one I am iterested in set the world powers on their collective ear by having a 150 grain spitzer leaving the muzzle at 2880fps circa 1905. I can and do load my milsurp rifles to that power level. Check out some loading manuals and you will see the data is there. Personally I use BLC-2 with 150 grain Hornady spitzer flat base to get that load. I have also had very good accuracy with IMR 4895. I am far from my loading mauals right now so I won't quote you anything from memory in case you go out and use it as data.

[largom]

When hand loaded the 8X57 can be a real power house. Factory ammo is loaded light do to the fact that their are two different barrel bore diameters. Factory ammo makes it safe for both.

Larry

[TNsailorman]

On most european rifles the sights are set up for 200 yard on the lowest setting. Every mauser that I have ever seen had to have a higher front sight to shoot on at 100 yards where most shooters want to sight their rifles to be dead on. I always load my 98's to the european levels and then change to a higher front sight after I develope a load for the rifle. Once I get a good accurate load for the rifle, I can add that higher sight and file it to be dead on at 100 yards. I have found that IMR 4895 gives me good accuracy and good power levels also. I have also found IMR 4320 to work very well. I usually start the IMR 4895 loads at about 44.5 grains and work up slowly. Most of my rifles have really responded best at 47.5 to 48.5 grains of 4895. I have never had to go higher to get what I want. Just be sure to watch your pressure signs. Works for me, james

[220swiftfn]

I have a copy of that somewhere........ Don't remember who authored it, but they did the same thing in one of the gun rags YEARS ago (replicating factory loads) with chrono to back it up for the 198 and 150 ball loads. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow and post back.... As to the "anemic" U.S. loading, largom has it, .323 vs. .318 that happened in 1905. That being said, apparently, anyone outside of the States is smarter, 'cause they know what the "S" means.......(All of the non-U.S. made 8mm Mauser is "full tilt" stuff).


Dan

[mongoosesnipe]

It is a shame the 8mm Mauser is down loaded so ine the us ammo offering to the point wher it I pretty much a 30-30 the proper loads are every bit the equil of 30-06 that said hornady and nosler both offer proper loads with 200 gr bullets around 2500 fps

If you get the right ones they are truly beautiful guns as well I have a matching numbers m29 Persian Mauser with matching bayonet that is pretty much a safe queen but its fired a few rounds I would like to lay a deer down with it at some point but that would mean exposing it to weather and luging 4.5 feet of rifle into the field but some day it will shed blood

[UBER7MM]

....I have found that IMR 4895 gives me good accuracy and good power levels also. I have also found IMR 4320 to work very well. I usually start the IMR 4895 loads at about 44.5 grains and work up slowly. Most of my rifles have really responded best at 47.5 to 48.5 grains of 4895. I have never had to go higher to get what I want. Just be sure to watch your pressure signs. Works for me, james

I load for accuracy so the hottest loads necessarily my goal. I'll second 4895. IMR-4064 is my go to powder in J-word 8x57s. I've yet to experiment with IMR-4320 in the 8mm, should work as well.

For a 8mm 150 grain bullet, 48 grains was once considered a starting load, in some of the newer manuals its now a max load. Interesting.

Safe loading, shooting, reloading,

[gew98]

I've had good shooting with 4064 and hornady 170 RN and Sierra 175 PSP bullets.
When I had a couple boxes of sierra BTHP 200 grainers 4350 really did the trick with a stout load. I used to load 52 grains of wc852 behind chinese and turk pulled 154 fmj's and it performed very well until I ran out of wc852.

[gwozdz]

I've had good shooting with 4064 and hornady 170 RN and Sierra 175 PSP bullets.
When I had a couple boxes of sierra BTHP 200 grainers 4350 really did the trick with a stout load. I used to load 52 grains of wc852 behind chinese and turk pulled 154 fmj's and it performed very well until I ran out of wc852.

Gew98,
Was the 52 grains of wc852 anywheres near a max load. I have some wc852 left over from loading 30-06 M2 ball and would like to use it up. I recall that there were fast buring lots and I don't know which mine was and can't find out. TIA

[jonk]

I have done a fair amount of loading for the 8X57. Not only is US ammo way underloaded, but the data in the Lee manual from IMR in particular is ridiculously, like, misprinted, underloaded. Like, 10+ grains underloaded.

My favorite 8X57 powder without doubt is 4064, though any similar rate powder will do well. It's bulky enough to mainly fill the case but fast enough that you don't get into compressed loads unless you go to a very light bullet.

As a word of caution, I of course say 'for use in 98 rifles with S bores and good working condition only.'

My personal favorites:
Remington 185 PSP 46 gr 4064
Hornady 150 spire point 48 gr (I did run it up to 52, 48 was best accuracy)
Hornady 220 spire point 40 gr (mild load, about 2100 fps, good for Gew 88s if bullet is suitably sized)

None of these are max end loads, but all are pretty potent.

[Love Life]

I have had good accuracy and speed using the Hornady 170 gr RN and the following powders:

IMR 4895
BLC-2
Benchmark

Benchmark has been the most accurate.

[Larry Gibson]

I use a Speer, Hornady, or Sierra 150 gr SP over 48 gr of H4895 in WW or R-P cases with a WLR primer to duplicate the light weight German service load. For the 196 gr equivelent heavy load I use milsurp 4895 which my lot is about equal to 4064/Varget in burning rate. I suggest either of those starting at 42 gr and work up in 1/2 gr increments until 2450 fps is reached assuming a barrel close to 24". Most German and Turk 154 gr service loads (loaded to German specs) runs 2850 - 2900 fps from my VZ24/47. The heavy ball 196 German stuff runs 2440 - 2475 out of the same rifle. Velocities are almost identical out of my 2 M48 Yugos and a couple other M98s.

Larry Gibson

[lreed]

Are the Prvi 8mm 198gr fmjbt as sold by Graf @ son worth considering in trying for duplicating of ww2 service ballistics. All jacketed bullet are pricey to me,thats why I like my Idea 323471-Ly 323470. thanks lreed

[junkbug]

You may never really duplicate the external trajectory of the WWII german sS load simply because part of what made it special was a bullet with a rather unique shape. It is not super difficult to get a 195 to 200 gr bullet to go as fast as WWII bullets went, but finding one that really duplicates the ballistic profile of the german bullet is tricky. There may be one out there, especially a boat-tail match bullet, but I'm not aware of what it is.

How far do you intend to try to shoot these bullets to?

I would definately try Privi Partisan ammo. Maybe it won't shoot to exactly where the sights are graduated to, but it is clean, reloadable, quality ammo. I doubt that even during WWII that all rifles shot to exactly where the numbers on the sights said they should be zeroed at. Those are just approximations, especially considering war-time tolerance variations in both ammo and rifles.

[lreed]

junkbug-My interest in 8mm service ammunition is partly just curiosity,partly just can I achieve results close to original and because I own rifles of that cal. I use cast exclusively in my shooting,but would like knowledge to kick it up a bit.

The "how far" is 500yds, that would be extreme I realize, but it ain't for ground hogging. Thanks lreed

[Larry Gibson]

You may never really duplicate the external trajectory of the WWII german sS load simply because part of what made it special was a bullet with a rather unique shape. It is not super difficult to get a 195 to 200 gr bullet to go as fast as WWII bullets went, but finding one that really duplicates the ballistic profile of the german bullet is tricky. There may be one out there, especially a boat-tail match bullet, but I'm not aware of what it is..........

The Hornady 196 gr BTSP or the 200 Sierra MK loaded to 2400 - 2450 fps will get you there or very close to it or as close as the 100m adjustment of M98 sights will allow. Ballistically both bullets hold quite close to the German 196 to 1000m. To 500 yards is no sweat with either bullet. Any of the 150 gr SPs I mentioned at 2850 - 2900 fps will also hold very well to 500 yards.

Larry Gibson